Advertisement
We've partnered up with Nixers.com to offer a space where you can talk directly to Peter from Nixers.com and get an exclusive Boards.ie discount code for a free job listing. If you are recruiting or know anyone else who is please check out the forum here.
If you have a new account but can't post, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help to verify your email address. Thanks :)

Landlords have put up rent!

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ techdiver


    Tard wrote: »
    I rang the PRTB and was told that she is within her rights to increase the rent after 12 months if she has specified it in the lease and if the new charge is similar to that of the rent in the area. Monkey nuts.
    Thanks for the help anyway and donations will be warmly accepted. PM me for bank acc details.

    Thanks!

    But according to you this is not the case and the lease you signed persists with the existing rent and conditions??


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    That the rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice.. and that we can leave with 28 days notice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    I asked if it had been written in the lease then would the increase be allowed


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭ reprazant


    if what was written in the lease? That the ll can increase the rent?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 drumswan


    Tard wrote: »
    I asked if it had been written in the lease then would the increase be allowed

    And is it?


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭ The_Conductor


    Tard wrote: »
    That the rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice.. and that we can leave with 28 days notice.

    The rent can be changed once in a 12 month period with 28 days written notice. As the tenancy has been in place between 1 and 2 years- you have to give 7 weeks notice (42 days) if you with to leave, not 28 days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ Tard


    I haven't got it with me. I don't remember seeing it when I read (skimmed through) it. I only got the mail when I got into work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,879 D3PO


    Paulw wrote: »
    Sorry, you are incorrect. The rent can be reviewed any time after the first year. The OP has had their lease extended, so since it is over 1 year, rent can be reviewed, according to the RTA 2004.

    A yearly review can mean a rent increase, or decrease (seldom would a landlord give a decrease in rent though).

    The OP should contact Threshold or the PRTB for clarification though, as well as reading the RTA 2004, at which point they will better understand the situation and legality of the landlord wanting to increase rent.

    Wrong the review can mean an increase, a decrease or the status quo remaining. If you resign a new contract that is a defacto review of the rent as both parties review the terms of the new contract (lease)

    The OP has a fixed term lease that means the term and the conditions of that remain in place until the lease ends. You cant change the terms of a lease halfway through.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 odds_on


    Tard wrote: »
    I rang the PRTB and was told that she is within her rights to increase the rent after 12 months if she has specified it in the lease and if the new charge is similar to that of the rent in the area. Monkey nuts.
    Thanks for the help anyway and donations will be warmly accepted. PM me for bank acc details.

    Thanks!
    Many people have inquired of the PRTB by phone and have been given incorrect information (usually because all the facts have not been given and discussed.

    The PRTB are quite right - the landlord is within her rights to increase the rent (in line with the current market rent) after 1 months. However, this assumes that the tenancy has become a Part 4 tenancy (where the tenant has less rights than those offered in a fixed term agreement. Under Part 4 tenancy laws, the landlord may have a rent review at any time (but not within 12 months of any previous review). Thus 2 months into a Part 4 tenancy, the rent may be reviewed with no problem.

    A fixed term lease is a legally binding contract and cannot be change by one side. Unless there is a clause in the fixed term agreement that allows for a rent review / increase during the term of the lease, the rent cannot be reviewed during that term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,879 D3PO


    Rick Rod wrote: »
    You are incorrect. Once the initial lease has expired the rent can be reviewed as outlined even if the lease has rolled

    The lease hasn't rolled if you read correctly you would notice the OP signed a new lease.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 ✭✭✭✭ djimi


    D3PO wrote: »
    Wrong the review can mean an increase, a decrease or the status quo remaining. If you resign a new contract that is a defacto review of the rent as both parties review the terms of the new contract (lease)

    The OP has a fixed term lease that means the term and the conditions of that remain in place until the lease ends. You cant change the terms of a lease halfway through.

    You see, this is exactly how I see it. If you put a piece of paper in front of me with an amount written onto it, and we both sign it, then we are both agreeing to the terms. Therefore, the rent has been reviewed for this 12 month period. It hasnt changed, but because you have given me a new lease to sign with the amount written onto it, it can be taken that the amount has been reviewed and no change was made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 Grandpa Hassan


    reprazant wrote: »
    Could you point out the legislation where it states this? Because otherwise there is zero point in signing a lease beyond the first year.

    You're right. There is zero point either party signing a lease after the 1st year. Time and time again we read how part 4 rights trump any rights the LL has written into the 2nd 12 month lease (such as termination periods etc). It stands to reason that that works both ways, and that the LL can review the rent here, even if the lease is another fixed term one.

    Or is the sugegstion that part 4 arrangements only apply to the tenant, whilst the LL has to abide by the lease terms


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 odds_on


    D3PO wrote: »
    The lease hasn't rolled if you read correctly you would notice the OP signed a new lease.
    Exactly. A fixed term lease expires at the end of the term. Then a new contract is signed with any new rent. If the landlord has failed to increase the rent then the landlord must wait until that agreement expires.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 odds_on


    You're right. There is zero point either party signing a lease after the 1st year. Time and time again we read how part 4 rights trump any rights the LL has written into the 2nd 12 month lease (such as termination periods etc). It stands to reason that that works both ways, and that the LL can review the rent here, even if the lease is another fixed term one.

    Or is the sugegstion that part 4 arrangements only apply to the tenant, whilst the LL has to abide by the lease terms
    Wrong.
    A fixed term lease gives the tenant more security of tenure than a Part 4 lease does. With a fixed term lease, a landlord cannot evict a tenant under the grounds available in the RTA 2004.

    Likewise, the rent cannot be changed (up or down) during a fixed term lease. In a Part 4 tenancy there is no restriction on a rent review apart from there not being one within 12 months of the previous review.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 Grandpa Hassan


    odds_on wrote: »
    Exactly. A fixed term lease expires at the end of the term. Then a new contract is signed with any new rent. If the landlord has failed to increase the rent then the landlord must wait until that agreement expires.

    But that lease is overridden from the tenant's perspective with his or her rights in part 4. Even if a fixed term lease says there is a 28 day notice period, for example, that is overridden by the 42 day notice period set out in part 4. Surely the same would apply to the LL.

    basically a fixed term lease beyond the first year is not worth the paper it is written on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ ANXIOUS


    djimi wrote: »
    If the OP is in any doubt then they need to contact Threshold, but I would be utterly amazed if they are told anything different to what the majority have said on here, that the rent cannot be reviewed for the duration of a fixed term lease. The rent amount forms part of the signed terms of the lease; one party cannot just decide to change the terms of a legal contract mid way through.

    Lol, what about when rent allowance is cut? Does that only come in at the end of the contract?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 ✭✭✭✭ djimi


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    Lol, what about when rent allowance is cut? Does that only come in at the end of the contract?

    Well obviously if both parties agree to a change then a change can be made. In the case of RA then the landlord doesnt really have much choice but to agree to it.

    But we are not talking about RA, so Im not sure why you felt the need to bring it up?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 drumswan


    Lots of people definite about this one way or the other. In fact is it anything but clear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 ✭✭✭✭ djimi


    But that lease is overridden from the tenant's perspective with his or her rights in part 4. Even if a fixed term lease says there is a 28 day notice period, for example, that is overridden by the 42 day notice period set out in part 4. Surely the same would apply to the LL.

    basically a fixed term lease beyond the first year is not worth the paper it is written on

    Why would it be any different after the first year?

    What notice periods are overridden by a part 4? Generally speaking, there are no notice periods in a fixed term lease aside from a break clause.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,729 ✭✭✭ sweetie


    My take and interpretation is that you stay on your current rate till next september. Do not pay anything without consulting with Threshold. I would think the PRTB would lean more towards the lanlords side (he who pays the piper...)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 ✭✭✭✭ djimi


    sweetie wrote: »
    I would think the PRTB would lean more towards the lanlords side (he who pays the piper...)

    The PRTB should be impartial, and tbh they are not a lobby group and I doubt very much that they will side with the landlord because they are the ones who pay them (the landlords have no choice but to pay them, so there is no need for the PRTB to keep them sweet).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭ professore


    djimi wrote: »
    The PRTB should be impartial, and tbh they are not a lobby group and I doubt very much that they will side with the landlord because they are the ones who pay them (the landlords have no choice but to pay them, so there is no need for the PRTB to keep them sweet).

    That hasn't been my experience in the past with them. Basically told me to "keep quiet" about mould growing everywhere in an apartment I was renting at the time. Granted that was back in 1998.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 drumswan


    Ive just read the act, it seems to say quite simply that either party can call for a rent review once every twelve months, theres no mention of whether theres a contract in place.

    Can someone point out otherwise?

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 ✭✭✭✭ djimi


    drumswan wrote: »
    Ive just read the act, it seems to say quite simply that either party can call for a rent review once every twelve months, theres no mention of whether theres a contract in place.

    Can someone point out otherwise?

    http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf

    As above, it is my interpretation that a new signed fixed term lease constitutes a rent review (the landlord is the one who fills out the new lease for the tenant to sign, and at that point has the option to increase or decrease the rent). Id be interested to see how this would hold up in court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,636 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    djimi wrote: »
    As above, it is my interpretation that a new signed fixed term lease constitutes a rent review (the landlord is the one who fills out the new lease for the tenant to sign, and at that point has the option to increase or decrease the rent). Id be interested to see how this would hold up in court.

    I think that is the appropriate interpretation.

    You cant change a contract midway through. Do some posters here honestly belief that to be the case :confused:


    boggles.


  • Site Banned Posts: 64 ✭✭ Rick Rod


    You probably should just pay up or you will be out on your ear. How much of an increase is being sought? Will the new rent be in line with the market?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,636 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Rick Rod wrote: »
    You probably should just pay up or you will be out on your ear. How much of an increase is being sought? Will the new rent be in line with the market?

    poor trolling effort.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 odds_on


    But that lease is overridden from the tenant's perspective with his or her rights in part 4. Even if a fixed term lease says there is a 28 day notice period, for example, that is overridden by the 42 day notice period set out in part 4. Surely the same would apply to the LL.

    basically a fixed term lease beyond the first year is not worth the paper it is written on
    No, the notice periods are enshrined in the Residential Tenancies Act, not in Part4.

    However, at the end of a second fixed term lease (or any fixed term agreement), there is no notice period, because that fixed term agreement comes to an end. If the parties wish to enter into another fixed term, the terms are agreed before the signing of the contract. If a tenant wishes to break a fixed term agreement, the tenant should assign the remained of the lease unless they want to risk losing their deposit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 drumswan


    listermint wrote: »
    I think that is the appropriate interpretation.

    You cant change a contract midway through. Do some posters here honestly belief that to be the case :confused:


    boggles.
    It appears to be the case from reading the act and citizensinformation.ie. Thats where the confusion comes from I imagine.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 30,636 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    drumswan wrote: »
    It appears to be the case from reading the act and citizensinformation.ie. Thats where the confusion comes from I imagine.

    No, thats just poor interpretation of that information.


Advertisement