Speed Cameras - how's that working out for ya (Dept, that is.....) ..

galwaytt · 01-11-2013 10:29AM #1

Apologies if posted already, but someone emailed me this yesterday......

Expected revenues predicted of €40m - €70m, then revised to €27m. Actual amount generated........ €4.6m. But it cost the State €15.6m to 'collect' the €4.6m. That's a loss of €11m in one year.

Geniuses lads, those Dept accountants. Do banking much ??

Still, 'Speed Kills', right, so that's o.k. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And the State's response to the reduction - by 50% mind - of the number of speeding fines ?? - not to say 'well done' or 'ye're behaving better'. Oh no, it's to roll out extra zones to park them in.

Well done, that'll win us over alright :rolleyes:

Not as much in fines hoped........so we'll just put them in even more stupid places instead then..

BMJD · 01-11-2013 10:34AM

Speed Kills PAYS

ba_barabus · 01-11-2013 10:35AM

I've started to notice lots of places at the side of motorways been prepared to park these vans on.

I thought it was illegal/dangerous to stop on a motorway unless it was an emergency?

listermint · 01-11-2013 10:37AM

ba_barabus wrote: »

I've started to notice lots of places at the side of motorways been prepared to park these vans on.

I thought it was illegal/dangerous to stop on a motorway unless it was an emergency?

Not if you are in power its not.

listermint · 01-11-2013 10:38AM

Whats there strategy for single vehicle deaths on poor country roads and 3am in the morning?

Caliden · 01-11-2013 10:38AM

As long as they keep making a loss, it will get to a point where they will have to remove them altogether.

The majority of people aren't stupid and will just know where the usual spots for cameras are.

BMJD · 01-11-2013 10:40AM

listermint wrote: »

Whats there strategy for single vehicle deaths on poor country roads and 3am in the morning?

close the Garda stations

slimjimmc · 01-11-2013 10:45AM

ba_barabus wrote: »

I've started to notice lots of places at the side of motorways been prepared to park these vans on.

I thought it was illegal/dangerous to stop on a motorway unless it was an emergency?

If they're the same bays that were discussed on boards previously then they're for road maintenance vehicles and no one anyone else. There's a substantial infrastructure buried along the edge of the road which requires maintenance.

listermint · 01-11-2013 10:47AM

BMJD wrote: »

close the Garda stations

exactly.

All these speed camera crap is about optics, until it starts costing the state real money, which it appears to be now they will up the anti and move the jumpers around.

ba_barabus · 01-11-2013 10:49AM

slimjimmc wrote: »

If they're the same bays that were discussed on boards previously then they're for road maintenance vehicles and no one anyone else. There's a substantial infrastructure buried along the edge of the road which requires maintenance.

That's possible I missed that conversation.

They're on the grass verges. Some have the grass cut and surfaced levelled while others have a solid surface with grass growing on them.

pred racer · 01-11-2013 10:53AM

Alot of the spots they picked, used to be high traffic roads eg most of the old N7
Nobody uses this road any more as its bypassed by the motorway.
I am delighted that they are not making any money from it, now we will see their true colours.
There is one gosafe zone very close to me which was a shameless money grabber (there has never been an accident there in my memory and Ive lived here 30yrs) there was only one place to park the van safely, which was outside a certain womans house. After they caught her speeding, decelerating to drive in her own gate:rolleyes: she bought several large concrete pots off my father, Van has never been seen there since

H3llR4iser · 01-11-2013 10:57AM

galwaytt wrote: »

Apologies if posted already, but someone emailed me this yesterday......

Expected revenues predicted of €40m - €70m, then revised to €27m. Actual amount generated........ €4.6m. But it cost the State €15.6m to 'collect' the €4.6m. That's a loss of €11m in one year.

Geniuses lads, those Dept accountants. Do banking much ??

Still, 'Speed Kills', right, so that's o.k. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And the State's response to the reduction - by 50% mind - of the number of speeding fines ?? - not to say 'well done' or 'ye're behaving better'. Oh no, it's to roll out extra zones to park them in.

Well done, that'll win us over alright :rolleyes:

Not as much in fines hoped........so we'll just put them in even more stupid places instead then..

Well what are they complaining about? That's the way it should work, making a loss...it's INVESTMENT in ROAD SAFETY afterall. Sure enough, they wouldn't be silly enough to expect PROFIT or breaking even with it, that would be naive...wouldn't it?

Anan1 · 01-11-2013 10:58AM

What a muddled rant.

galwaytt wrote: »

Apologies if posted already, but someone emailed me this yesterday......

Expected revenues predicted of €40m - €70m, then revised to €27m. Actual amount generated........ €4.6m. But it cost the State €15.6m to 'collect' the €4.6m. That's a loss of €11m in one year.

Geniuses lads, those Dept accountants. Do banking much ??

Since when was law enforcement supposed to turn a profit?

galwaytt wrote: »

Still, 'Speed Kills', right, so that's o.k. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And the State's response to the reduction - by 50% mind - of the number of speeding fines ?? - not to say 'well done' or 'ye're behaving better'. Oh no, it's to roll out extra zones to park them in.

Well done, that'll win us over alright :rolleyes:

What do you expect, if increased enforcement has been proven to increase compliance rates?

ardmacha · 01-11-2013 11:00AM

Speed detection is something that should end up making a loss as it would mean that it had reduced the number of people speeding, which is the purpose of the exercise.

pred racer · 01-11-2013 11:01AM

Anan1 wrote: »

What a muddled rant.Since when was law enforcement supposed to turn a profit?
What do you expect, if increased enforcement has been proven to increase compliance rates?

Its not, but these clowns thought it would;)

But the article says it hasnt changed behaviour, therefore I would argue its not working.

Anan1 · 01-11-2013 11:04AM

pred racer wrote: »

Its not, but these clowns thought it would;)

Isn't it a good thing for everyone that fines were lower than expected?

pred racer wrote: »

But the article says it hasnt changed behaviour, therefore I would argue its not working.

OP says speeding fines are down 50%?

pred racer · 01-11-2013 11:12AM

Anan1 wrote: »

Isn't it a good thing for everyone that fines were lower than expected?

OP says speeding fines are down 50%?

Yes, but if people cant slow down when they see the sign, I'd worry about their intelligence! Its not too good for the clowns who expected to rake in €70 million.

I was refering to this portion of the article.

"This appears to suggest that while motorists are aware of and responding to speeding enforcement in the areas monitored by privatised cameras, there has not as yet been a significant change in driver behaviour."

eringobragh · 01-11-2013 11:15AM

Anan1 wrote: »

Isn't it a good thing for everyone that fines were lower than expected?

OP says speeding fines are down 50%?

Gosafe upped their game and lowered the thresholds on the vans a good while ago - no reason given

Source: gosafe employee

Anan1 · 01-11-2013 11:30AM

pred racer wrote: »

Yes, but if people cant slow down when they see the sign, I'd worry about their intelligence! Its not too good for the clowns who expected to rake in €70 million.

I was refering to this portion of the article.

"This appears to suggest that while motorists are aware of and responding to speeding enforcement in the areas monitored by privatised cameras, there has not as yet been a significant change in driver behaviour."

Sure the whole point of enforcement is that people respond to the threat of being caught! Lower fines means greater compliance in the monitored areas, which is good for the clowns.

ba_barabus · 01-11-2013 11:33AM

eringobragh wrote: »

Gosafe upped their game and lowered the thresholds on the vans a good while ago - no reason given

Source: gosafe employee

What threshold?

CiniO · 01-11-2013 11:34AM

So now I can see two possible things they will do.

1. They will increase fines for speeding to some crazy levels like €500 per speeding offence. This should generate more revenue.

2. Otherwise, if it won't (f.e. because people will stop speeding completely in those zones), they can leave current fine levels, but scrap penalty points for speeding. Because that's what most drivers are affraid the most. I'm sure there would be plenty people willing to speed if it was only €80 fine without penalty points. That's another way to raise the revenue then for them.

Anan1 · 01-11-2013 11:37AM

CiniO wrote: »

So now I can see two possible things they will do.

1. They will increase fines for speeding to some crazy levels like €500 per speeding offence. This should generate more revenue.

2. Otherwise, if it won't (f.e. because people will stop speeding completely in those zones), they can leave current fine levels, but scrap penalty points for speeding. Because that's what most drivers are affraid the most. I'm sure there would be plenty people willing to speed if it was only €80 fine without penalty points. That's another way to raise the revenue then for them.

You're completely missing the point. Enforcement was never supposed to make money - the real savings to the exchequer are in lower death & serious injury costs.

CiniO · 01-11-2013 11:40AM

Anan1 wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. Enforcement was never supposed to make money - the real savings to the exchequer are in lower death & serious injury costs.

Are you sure that this was their idea when rolling speed camera system?
I don't think so...

galwaytt · 01-11-2013 11:41AM

Anan1 wrote: »

What a muddled rant.Since when was law enforcement supposed to turn a profit?
What do you expect, if increased enforcement has been proven to increase compliance rates?

:rolleyes:

As for the profit comment, the justification for this contract was financial. Someone in the Dept said it would generate the €40m-70m figure, which was revised (alarmingly by approx. 50%). This was the financial justification for rolling it out to a private contractor - that it would alter behaviour and be cost positive.

Now they're claiming it hasn't altered behaviour (despite their own evidence to the contrary) and it's actually cost them - actually US - €11m in a 12mth period.

So, they have failed on both counts.

I expect (sic) that the people who are responsible for this are competent. They are obviously not.

If that's muddled I'd hate to see clarity.

Anan1 · 01-11-2013 11:42AM

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure that this was their idea when rolling speed camera system?
I don't think so...

Of course it was. Enforcement of laws is for the social good, this is why we pay for Gardaí/courts/prisons.

Scortho · 01-11-2013 11:43AM

CiniO wrote: »

So now I can see two possible things they will do.

1. They will increase fines for speeding to some crazy levels like €500 per speeding offence. This should generate more revenue.

2. Otherwise, if it won't (f.e. because people will stop speeding completely in those zones), they can leave current fine levels, but scrap penalty points for speeding. Because that's what most drivers are affraid the most. I'm sure there would be plenty people willing to speed if it was only €80 fine without penalty points. That's another way to raise the revenue then for them.

I would love if number 2 was to happen:D

ba_barabus · 01-11-2013 11:47AM

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure that this was their idea when rolling speed camera system?
I don't think so...

That's true and it was the reason given for the parent structure to GoSafe at the beginning.

It will be interesting to see how the issue progresses.

CiniO · 01-11-2013 11:49AM

Anan1 wrote: »

Of course it was. Enforcement of laws is for the social good, this is why we pay for Gardaí/courts/prisons.

Time will tell.
If speed camera system is bringing loss, they will surely do something with it soon.
We will see then, and return to this thread

eringobragh · 01-11-2013 11:52AM

ba_barabus wrote: »

What threshold?

The speed threshold for fines. Before you were allowed 8km over, and a ticket issued for all vehicles doing 9km and over. it is now 5km/h (not sure if it is 5km grace or if 5km is ticket territory)

Reason being the redflex system has a degree of error - haven't the exact specs to hand but if I remember correctly its +/- 2kmph accuracy

Anan1 · 01-11-2013 11:53AM

galwaytt wrote: »

:rolleyes:

As for the profit comment, the justification for this contract was financial. Someone in the Dept said it would generate the €40m-70m figure, which was revised (alarmingly by approx. 50%). This was the financial justification for rolling it out to a private contractor - that it would alter behaviour and be cost positive.

Now they're claiming it hasn't altered behaviour (despite their own evidence to the contrary) and it's actually cost them - actually US - €11m in a 12mth period.

So, they have failed on both counts.

I expect (sic) that the people who are responsible for this are competent. They are obviously not.

If that's muddled I'd hate to see clarity.

It's still muddled.

Are you arguing that it's working or that it's not?

ba_barabus · 01-11-2013 11:58AM

eringobragh wrote: »

The speed threshold for fines. Before you were allowed 8km over, and a ticket issued for all vehicles doing 9km and over. it is now 5km/h (not sure if it is 5km grace or if 5km is ticket territory)

Reason being the redflex system has a degree of error - haven't the exact specs to hand but if I remember correctly its +/- 2kmph accuracy

I understood that Gardai had to view, approve and sign off on any fines to stop them having too low a threshold. Although you do point out that one still does exist.

Speed Cameras - how's that working out for ya (Dept, that is.....) ..

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