The light! My eyes!

Chips Lovell · 29-10-2013 6:11pm #1

The purpose of your front light is to alert other road users to your presence and illuminate the way ahead of you.

It isn't there to dazzle or temporarily blind oncoming traffic.

If you have a high-powered front light, the least you could do is put it on the lower setting and angle it downwards. And for the love of god, don't even think about using the flash mode.

That is all.

buffalo · 29-10-2013 6:18pm

What if, even when using a mid-level brightness, I still get cars driving nigh on top of me - with one gent in particular claiming to have never even seen me. Can I put it on high-beam flashing then?

godtabh · 29-10-2013 6:45pm

Define high powered?

Alek · 29-10-2013 7:31pm

I had one of those in flash mode coming towards me. God, that was awful, couldn't see anything else. Only shouted "Dude, turn it down" and cycled home, half-blinded :-/

Ole Rodrigo · 29-10-2013 7:39pm

It seems to be a case of gadget lust trumping common sense.

ednwireland · 29-10-2013 7:44pm

meh - wait till my 3000 lumen monster arrives i'll come down there and burn your retinas out

at least cars started dipping their headlights when i bought my 1200 lumen light just ignored me before that

edit : that reminds me i'll have to pin down one of my neighbours teens and shine it in his eyes (get my own back for him driving a pos lowered golf with completely mis aligned hid's)

CramCycle · 29-10-2013 7:56pm

ednwireland wrote: »

that reminds me i'll have to pin down one of my neighbours teens

I got as far as here and was worried what you were you about to admit to thinking about doing. Luckily, I read on and agreed.

detones · 29-10-2013 7:56pm

I recently purchased a 780 lumen xmoon front light. On dark lanes I usually use the constant lower 550 lm setting and full power on decents. When I come into lit areas I am using the flashing mode. Cars do seem to notice me a lot more than when in constant mode in these light conditions. I do however make sure to angle the light down to make sure I don't dazzle drivers. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to be doing but I reckon it's the best strategy for me to stay alive out there.

Dublinstiofán · 29-10-2013 8:18pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The purpose of your front light is to alert other road users to your presence and illuminate the way ahead of you.

It isn't there to dazzle or temporarily blind oncoming traffic.

If you have a high-powered front light, the least you could do is put it on the lower setting and angle it downwards. And for the love of god, don't even think about using the flash mode.

That is all.

I believe there's research out there that says if your lights aren't flashing on your bike you might aswell not have them at all.

Apparently drivers in general are programmed to not take as much/any notice of static lights. Thats why the emergency services lights flash to get your attention along with the siren.

I do agree they shouldn't be pointed in an oncoming drivers face though!

Idleater · 29-10-2013 8:38pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

for the love of god, don't even think about using the flash mode.

That is all.

For shame I had to do this on the way home. I forgot my charger because I took it home on Friday for the dying Light. True to form, dying Light is what I had going home.
Hate to do it though.

Lusk_Doyle · 29-10-2013 8:50pm

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I believe there's research out there that says if your lights aren't flashing on your bike you might aswell not have them at all.

Apparently drivers in general are programmed to not take as much/any notice of static lights. Thats why the emergency services lights flash to get your attention along with the siren.

I do agree they shouldn't be pointed in an oncoming drivers face though!

Why don't car lights flash then?

rollingscone · 29-10-2013 8:59pm

detones wrote: »

I recently purchased a 780 lumen xmoon front light. On dark lanes I usually use the constant lower 550 lm setting and full power on decents. When I come into lit areas I am using the flashing mode. Cars do seem to notice me a lot more than when in constant mode in these light conditions. I do however make sure to angle the light down to make sure I don't dazzle drivers. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to be doing but I reckon it's the best strategy for me to stay alive out there.

Well that deflates my sense of belief in my new Nanoshot...

CramCycle · 29-10-2013 9:52pm

Dublinstiofán wrote: »

I believe there's research out there that says if your lights aren't flashing on your bike you might aswell not have them at all.

I believe that there is a research that says the opposite.

buffalo · 29-10-2013 10:09pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I believe that there is a research that says the opposite.

CramCycle · 29-10-2013 10:32pm

buffalo wrote: »

I want to believe

There were huge threads on here years ago about it, delving into frequency of the lights, the frequency that suits the human eye etc. All I am saying is that my references are as good as Dublinstiofán :pac:

Caveat, thusfar they are equal to his/hers .

Planet X · 29-10-2013 10:56pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The purpose of your front light is to alert other road users to your presence and illuminate the way ahead of you.

It isn't there to dazzle or temporarily blind oncoming traffic.

If you have a high-powered front light, the least you could do is put it on the lower setting and angle it downwards. And for the love of god, don't even think about using the flash mode.

That is all.

I agree. It's common sense to angle your light down if you have the capability/power to blow the traffic away with an airport runway type light strapped to your bars.

I have a powerful light on my bars and NO WAY would I commute with it levelled at the on coming car drivers eyes. Doesn't make sense.

Grand for the country lane.......but that's about it.

Ole Rodrigo · 29-10-2013 10:58pm

I think its fair to distinguish between common or garden LEDs and a high powered flashing light . One cheerfully and agreeably alerts folks to your passage, while the other is a full on retinal assault from the Starship Enterprise.

Lusk_Doyle · 29-10-2013 11:29pm

ror_74 wrote: »

I think its fair to distinguish between common or garden LEDs and a high powered flashing light . One cheerfully and agreeably alerts folks to your passage, while the other is a full on retinal assault from the Starship Enterprise.

A common or garden led is not suitable to light your way. The light on a bike should adequately illuminate the road in front of you so you can identify dangers in enough time.

Rambling Man · 29-10-2013 11:39pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

A common or garden led is not suitable to light your way. The light on a bike should adequately illuminate the road in front of you so you can identify dangers in enough time.

So true. You can easily drift on the road in pitch dark so to keep that metre from the ditch on your left, you need a lot of Lumens.

GreeBo · 29-10-2013 11:45pm

I dont mind high powered lights that illuminate the road, they dont need to shine forward for anyone else to see them.

I always thought flashing lights on a bicycle was illegal?

Finally, the high powered lights that guys wear strapped to their helmets are ridiculous; every time they move their head its like being hit by a fricken lighthouse!

Wishbone Ash · 29-10-2013 11:45pm

Rambling Man wrote: »

So true. You can easily drift on the road in pitch dark so to keep that metre from the ditch on your left, you need a lot of Lumens.

I'd be thinking about seeing dangers such as potholes, debris etc. rather than drifting off the road.

Rambling Man · 30-10-2013 12:05am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd be thinking about seeing dangers such as potholes, debris etc. rather than drifting off the road.

If you don't know a lane too well it can throw up a sudden twist or turn or one of those 10 meter pavements to nowhere outside someones gaff. But you're right you don't want to not see stuff on the road.

CramCycle · 30-10-2013 12:24am

GreeBo wrote: »

I always thought flashing lights on a bicycle was illegal?

Nope, the minister thought that it would be easier to legalise it as most people that they were OK. They have been legal for a couple of years (not many mind) now.

Rambling Man · 30-10-2013 12:59am

CramCycle wrote: »

Nope, the minister thought that it would be easier to legalise it as most people that they were OK. They have been legal for a couple of years (not many mind) now.

Crimecall on RTE this evening did a feature by the Gardai on cyclist visibility. Their best practise cyclist was shown with a white flashing front light.

Alek · 30-10-2013 1:00am

Fair play, but not a 1200lm one, please.

Ole Rodrigo · 30-10-2013 8:51am

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

A common or garden led is not suitable to light your way. The light on a bike should adequately illuminate the road in front of you so you can identify dangers in enough time.

Sure, on an an unlit road. On an urban road you shouldn't need strong lights. An LED is fine for urban areas I would say.

aFlabbyPanda · 30-10-2013 9:06am

I've got one of the 1200 jobs from ebay as about a 1/3 of my commute is on unlit regional roads. The rest is through town with street lighting. I find that in the urban area cars actually see me better/take more notice when I switch to my flashing cheapo light then using the cree light.

Puggy · 30-10-2013 9:09am

I've got two Cree led front lights, even on the lowest setting they dazzle on coming road users, including other cyclists. Though I do need then for the unlighted roads in north county Dublin. Get some wide angle lenses , I got mine on ebay, search for "wide angle lens for magi shine". They work well and shape the beam to a pattern similar to a car headlight, dipped of course!

tomasrojo · 30-10-2013 9:11am

Dublin Bikes are conspicuous as they approach, day or night, despite the headlight being of only medium intensity and not flashing. I think the quite large diameter makes the difference.

Chips Lovell · 30-10-2013 9:13am

Rambling Man wrote: »

Crimecall on RTE this evening did a feature by the Gardai on cyclist visibility. Their best practise cyclist was shown with a white flashing front light.

Jesus wept

Cookie_Monster · 30-10-2013 9:15am

Rambling Man wrote: »

Crimecall on RTE this evening did a feature by the Gardai on cyclist visibility. Their best practise cyclist was shown with a white flashing front light.

:pac:
best practice for AGS is solving actual crimes, they're not too good at that, never mind giving out advice

rollingscone · 30-10-2013 9:19am

Alek wrote: »

Fair play, but not a 1200lm one, please.

Jawgap · 30-10-2013 9:24am

I've a light that sends 2000 lumens off the front end of the bike, if I use it on full whack.

Using it on the medium setting sends out about 1000 lumens - when using it on this setting I was advised by a Guard that I should be wearing hi-viz clothing to improve my visability!

My 'takeaway message' was AGS don't think 1000 lumens is sufficient to make you visible, in Dublin anyway

seamus · 30-10-2013 9:32am

ror_74 wrote: »

Sure, on an an unlit road. On an urban road you shouldn't need strong lights. An LED is fine for urban areas I would say.

What kind of LED?

There's a world of difference between your €10 3-led smart lights and a good 200 lumen commuting light (it's LED

).
The latter is painfully bright, dangerous in fact if you have it angled too high, but I will no longer ride with anything less in the city.

There's a "survival of the fittest" aspect in urban areas, and low-powered lights are badly drowned out by the sea of car headlights. The typical cheap LED lights are not visible in urban areas during peak hours. Ironically they're probably most effective while flashing on unlit roads because you'll stand out in the dark, but they're useless for navigating.

nak · 30-10-2013 9:52am

I am sick of being blinded by other cyclists on the canal to Adamstown. The canal is lit, and there are no cars, so I turn my lights off as soon as I get onto it. Have shouted at a few people that they are blinding me with their bloody lights, makes no difference though. I counted 6 front facing lights on one guy, is that really necessary? None of them use the flashing mode, and still feel the need to use lights when the sun is shining. They must spend a lot of money on batteries.

Ole Rodrigo · 30-10-2013 10:27am

seamus wrote: »

What kind of LED?

There's a world of difference between your €10 3-led smart lights and a good 200 lumen commuting light (it's LED ).
The latter is painfully bright, dangerous in fact if you have it angled too high, but I will no longer ride with anything less in the city.

There's a "survival of the fittest" aspect in urban areas, and low-powered lights are badly drowned out by the sea of car headlights. The typical cheap LED lights are not visible in urban areas during peak hours. Ironically they're probably most effective while flashing on unlit roads because you'll stand out in the dark, but they're useless for navigating.

You're right, I suppose it was just a standard 50 quid set I as assuming to be generic ' LED's'

I spent 50 euro on a set of cateye Opticube EL130 a few weeks ago - 20 for the rear and thirty for the front - and to my mind are perfectly fine for city cycling. The only problem with them is they slowly lose their power as the batteries drain. I wouldn't really need lights to illuminate the road in the city, only for other road users to see me. During peak hours the the sea of light ( street lamps, motor vehicles, buildings, other cyclists etc ) would make the need for lights almost redundant, so having them in those situations is more of a courtesy so you can be seen - no need to get involved in any survival of the fittest shenanigans

Once you have taken care of been seen, illuminating the road is a subjective thing. I'm in the less is more camp, keeping the lights slightly dimmer keeps my eyes sharp. A few years ago I rode from Galway to Dublin at night with a cheapo 50 quid pair, with an extra smart LED on the back and it was grand. ( no descents though ). I've used a Fenix TK11 on full for Wicklow in the dark and that was perfect, I dont think its any more than 250 lumen on full.

A set of properly angled, reasonably powered flashing lights is ok for urban areas, IMO.

Lusk_Doyle · 30-10-2013 11:16am

nak wrote: »

I am sick of being blinded by other cyclists on the canal to Adamstown. The canal is lit, and there are no cars, so I turn my lights off as soon as I get onto it. Have shouted at a few people that they are blinding me with their bloody lights, makes no difference though. I counted 6 front facing lights on one guy, is that really necessary? None of them use the flashing mode, and still feel the need to use lights when the sun is shining. They must spend a lot of money on batteries.

You know that it's the law in other European countries to have your lights on at all times in road vehicles? I think it's a good idea.

NeedMoreGears · 30-10-2013 2:37pm

I put my front light on flash mode in urban areas and constant higher power (150 lumens) on badly/unit roads during my commute. I aim the beam so that it's centre hits the ground about 12m forward and to the left ; that gives me about 18m of reasonably illuminated road ; a bit more than 2 seconds of travelling or so.

Chips Lovell · 30-10-2013 2:45pm

Top tip: If cyclists coming the other way are shielding their eyes from your light its probably too bright and/or not angled down enough.

Raam · 30-10-2013 3:16pm

Top tip #2: never look directly into a light.

Lusk_Doyle · 30-10-2013 3:18pm

Raam wrote: »

Top tip #2: never look directly into a light.

That's the sun, silly.

CramCycle · 30-10-2013 3:39pm

nak wrote: »

The canal is lit, and there are no cars, so I turn my lights off as soon as I get onto it.

I'd recommend leaving them on, if people are not paying attention, even in a well lit area, you can be easily missed.

CramCycle · 30-10-2013 3:39pm

Top tip #3: Don't go into the light

Kav0777 · 30-10-2013 3:41pm

Raam wrote: »

Top tip #2: never look directly into a light.

Top tip #4: Never feed it after midnight.

oh wait, was that a film...?

Zorba · 30-10-2013 3:49pm

I was cycling home from work last week after 11pm and was wondering why the road wasn't lit up as well as it usually is, until i realised the light was slipping back up instead of being pointed down towards the road in front.

So surely if your lights are up so high that they dazzle oncoming traffic then it also means u can't see the road clearly in front of you ?

Never have a problem with cars dipping, never been flashed but do get the odd arsehole that puts his/hers full lights on just as they reach me.

Using a Lezyne Super Drive, can't remember how many lumens it is but it does the job nicely !

Lumen · 30-10-2013 3:57pm

Zorba wrote: »

So surely if your lights are up so high that they dazzle oncoming traffic then it also means u can't see the road clearly in front of you ?

No. Floody lights are like full beams on a car.

Zorba · 30-10-2013 4:06pm

Lumen wrote: »

No. Floody lights are like full beams on a car.

Ohh!!

Wonder is my light floody, doesn't seem floody from my side of the bike but i can't say what they are like from the other side !

Planet X · 30-10-2013 4:40pm

Have yis not got da fogs on yet??

CramCycle · 30-10-2013 5:09pm

Zorba wrote: »

Ohh!!

Wonder is my light floody, doesn't seem floody from my side of the bike but i can't say what they are like from the other side !

Cycle close to a wall or ditch with the lights on. You should see a definitive line if they are not "floody" indicating how high the light is shining, the same way you would see a definitive line with dims on a car.

nak · 30-10-2013 6:08pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

You know that it's the law in other European countries to have your lights on at all times in road vehicles? I think it's a good idea.

It's not a road though, that was my point.

It's the super bright lights I have a problem with because they affect my vision. Similar deal to full beam headlights - turn them off when people are approaching you.

Tenzor07 · 31-10-2013 4:23pm

Meant to reply to this ealier...

Anyways, yes, do agree that some people have there bike lights pointed too high, which has caused annoyance coming down two way bike lanes such as along Clontarf/Dollymount or the Grand Canal path...Now that typical LED lights are around "200 lumens", as opposed to the old ":D Ever-Ready" lamps!

However..in general...

I would wonder:

A.) No. of accidents caused by a bicycle light being too bright = Zero?

B.) No. of accidents caused by insufficient or non-existent cycle lighting = Quite a lot!!

I use a 650 lumens self contained front light, which is perfect on "medium" for steady cycling, or on "flashing" if in traffic.
Have been considering a second 700L light to mount on the helmet, and the other on the bars..

Just to put this into perspective, a typical brake light on a car is around 1600 lumens...And i would guess that the new LED tail/brake units on Audi/BMW/VW would be even higher, 2000l perhaps.
Also a typical car headlight is around 700-1700 per headlamp, add in fog lights that people keep permanently on then you get the picture.. and not to mention the dodgy Halfords Halogen bulbs that boyracers install themselves which seem to point in every direction!

So before anyone in a car would complain about a cyclist lights being too bright, ask if you had seen the guy who didn't have such a bright light?

The light! My eyes!

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