How do you feel about Irish people joining foreign armies?

28-10-2013 08:03PM

Jcarroll07 wrote: »

Many to day join the military of other countries mainly UK due to family history and connections. 99% of irish men joining foreign armies are actually joining the armies of nations that are friendly and cooperative with Ireland and would probably be allies were it not for our neutral stance.

Just selecting this piece of text because isn't it actually the case that you cannot just join any army you want, the british army is a good choice for Irish people because they accept Irish people, same with the Legion, but other than them and possibly the Americans how many more armies can you actually join? I thought almost all others require citizenship to join.

cloudatlas · 28-10-2013 08:36PM

There are more private contractors in Iraq than there are American soldiers. The pentagon does not record the deaths of the contractors. I assume that some of the contractors are defense and security operatives. The contractors may be motivated by patriotism we don't know but a lot of American soldiers are motivated by money and also funding for their college education. Similarly Irish people working for the British Army are motivated by money and the desire to have improved career opportunities. Patriotism doesn't come into it.

meoklmrk91 · 28-10-2013 08:43PM

One of the lads I went to school with joined the British Army after we left, we left around the time the hiring freeze started so he couldn't join the Irish Army. Fair play to him, he's doing better for himself than most, he wanted to do something so he went and did it. The only thing I would worry about would him being targeted by republican groups when he comes home, there have been threats made, not to him personally, but to British soldiers as a whole, it disgusts me.

Stojkovic · 28-10-2013 08:49PM

I read that 25% of new recruits to the British Army over the last 5/10 years have been Irish.

Nothings changed a large chunk of the British Army in Crimea in 1850s were Irish. I think of the 20000 that died 7000 were Irish.

The Irish soldier is known and very well respected in the British Army.

mondeo · 28-10-2013 08:56PM

I came very close to joining the Russian army back in 2004'. A Russian soldier is automatically entitled to a lot of things for free, a deed to a house for example.. That's what I discovered but was not my reason for considering joining. I just fancied doing something mad and exciting. In the end I didn't do it because I got an unexpected job promotion and stayed put. I wonder sometimes where I'd be now if I did join back then.
At the time I didn't really feel an Irish soldier was a career move but then again I could be wrong there.

fedor.2. · 28-10-2013 08:58PM

Uaru wrote: »

I couldn't be friends with anyone joining the British or American oil war armies.

:rolleyes:

pablomakaveli · 28-10-2013 09:09PM

mondeo wrote: »

I came very close to joining the Russian army back in 2004'. A Russian soldier is automatically entitled to a lot of things for free, a deed to a house for example.. That's what I discovered but was not my reason for considering joining. I just fancied doing something mad and exciting. In the end I didn't do it because I got an unexpected job promotion and stayed put. I wonder sometimes where I'd be now if I did join back then.
At the time I didn't really feel an Irish soldier was a career move but then again I could be wrong there.

Just out of curiosity are you a Russian national or something?

mondeo · 28-10-2013 09:17PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Just out of curiosity are you a Russian national or something?

No but they do or 'did' at the time I researched it allow a non national to join their army. Being nearly a decade ago that status has possibly changed now.

Fukuyama · 28-10-2013 09:21PM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

A lot of people would disagree.

The idea of loyalty to an army (unless you're in one, which would be the obvious exception) makes me sick and a little sad for humanity.

How stupid do you have to be to, first and foremost, feel 'loyal' to an army or nation before you'd feel loyal to a government/party whom you can democratically elect. It's neanderthal and it holds back society as a whole.

Unless I'm confusing you with another poster; you're in the PDF, yes?

Surely you'd rather be part of an army that defends such a notion? And not one that's supported by people who don't think about their unwavering loyalty to you, but merely pledge allegiance to it 'no matter what'? It's paper thin, really.

Unless I'm missing something - there's no reason for an average civilian to feel patriotic towards their country/army.

I should point out that I don't hold any ill feeling towards soldiers. I view them much the same as Gardai; I respect their work and contribution to the nation. But I could only ever feel loyalty to such an organisation if I were either part of it or was in such a situation (eg. Russian invasion / zombies) whereby our interests were mutual (defending our shared society / killing the hoard).

I considered joining the British Army when I did the LC a good few years ago. I'd have no problem pledging allegiance to whatever Lord Cyclopes they have in charge because it'd mean very little on a personal level. I'd do the job, go where I was asked and murderize whoever I was told to murderize, but I wouldn't expect the British public to hold me up as some kind of national treasure; untouchable.

If you go all misty eyed at the sight of a tri-colour, you're pretty dumb.

pablomakaveli · 28-10-2013 09:29PM

mondeo wrote: »

No but they do or 'did' at the time I researched it allow a non national to join their army. Being nearly a decade ago that status has possibly changed now.

Ok never realized that but i suppose it makes sense. I'd imagine recruiting foreigners was probably allowed with ethnic Russians in places like Ukraine or Belarus or other former countries of the Soviet Union to join.

blueser · 28-10-2013 09:43PM

Up to the individual what career choice they make.

Uaru wrote: »

I couldn't be friends with anyone joining the British or American oil war armies.

Your choice/loss.

jimbobaloobob · 28-10-2013 09:45PM

Have a few friends in the Foreign legion, all in it for different reasons.

Respect to all to do those jobs and making their own choices

Johro · 28-10-2013 09:46PM

I don't care.

Benny_Cake · 28-10-2013 09:56PM

Personally, I don't favour people joining military forces where there is a good chance they will have to take human life in the name of some dubious cause. The long-term psychological impact can be immense too. If someone was thinking about it and asked my opinion, I'd urge them not to do it.

Ultimately though, it's their choice. I certainly wouldn't stop being a friend to someone who made that choice.

chughes · 28-10-2013 09:59PM

NuckingFacker wrote: »

As long as they're not joining the Legion 'cos they got my sister up the duff, I could care less.

When you mention Legion and Duff in the same sentence, I presume you mean the Legion of Mary???

Riddle101 · 28-10-2013 10:00PM

I don't mind if an Irishman wants to join another army. I kind've of see it as being like a mercenary, like Gurkhas for instance.

NuckingFacker · 28-10-2013 10:09PM

chughes wrote: »

When you mention Legion and Duff in the same sentence, I presume you mean the Legion of Mary???

Yes, the armed wing.

28-10-2013 10:16PM

mondeo wrote: »

I came very close to joining the Russian army back in 2004'. A Russian soldier is automatically entitled to a lot of things for free, a deed to a house for example.. That's what I discovered but was not my reason for considering joining. I just fancied doing something mad and exciting. In the end I didn't do it because I got an unexpected job promotion and stayed put. I wonder sometimes where I'd be now if I did join back then.
At the time I didn't really feel an Irish soldier was a career move but then again I could be wrong there.

I guess you would not have known about it at the time but did you ever read anything about the bullying and hazing that takes place within the Russian army?

anncoates · 28-10-2013 10:26PM

The army is a career so I suppose It can makes sense to join a certain army to gain experience or particular skills.

Unless you join a foreign army that ends up in a war with your own country, I don't see the national fealty thing being an issue.

Son Of A Vidic · 28-10-2013 11:21PM

old hippy wrote: »

How do I feel? It's none of my goddam business.

I share your sentiments.

Crea · 29-10-2013 12:00AM

My fathers cousin joined the US army as they put you through college if you do a certain number of years with them. He did his stint, did his masters, moved back to Ireland and got a job. There's no way he would have been able to do 3rd level any other way

Local-womanizer · 29-10-2013 12:31AM

It's a job, patriotism might come into it for some people, but if any soldier was told they weren't getting paid anymore in cash but instead they should be happy to be serving the flag, there would be no soldiers.

And the purpose of a soldier is not to kill, as some people think. It just so happens to be that if needed, they can do it effectively.

29-10-2013 12:51AM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

It's a job, patriotism might come into it for some people, but if any soldier was told they weren't getting paid anymore in cash but instead they should be happy to be serving the flag, there would be no soldiers.

Conscription still exists in many countries though, you are told you are going to be a soldier, its not a job.

dd972 · 29-10-2013 01:22AM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHHHH wrote: »

two people from my town joined the English army, I dont treat or think of them differently when they do come home which isnt often, I went to school with one of them and happily shared a pint with him at the bar the last time he was home and will gladly do so again, hes a changed man tho, hes not the wild man he was before he left

The English haven't got an army, the British do though

29-10-2013 01:25AM

dd972 wrote: »

The English haven't got an army, the British do though

No, the English have a British army :P

K-9 · 29-10-2013 01:32AM

SoulandForm wrote: »

I can understand people doing it under special circumstances- such as defending the Spanish Republic in the 1930s, fighting the Axis in World War II or defending Syria today against the terrorists trying to destroy her but in general it seems to me to be dodgy at best and treasonable at worst. By joining an army you are pledging your loyalty to it and beyond that to the state it is there to act for beyond what is demanded of a normal citizen.

People who were anti-Franco are comparable to those pro-Assad. I've heard it all know.

MRnotlob606 · 29-10-2013 09:44AM

join the legion.

Savoir.Faire · 29-10-2013 09:52AM

My younger brother, knowing he would not be left much in our father's will, given he was a very traditional man, left to join the British Army at the age of 24. He did rather well out of it, and he says the training he got at Sandhurst has stood to him throughout his life.

He now runs a successful stationary supply company in Cheshire while I'm left here with a house that is in constant need of repair and an estate that seems to cost me more in time and money than its worth.

I sometimes think I would have been better off had I followed in Ralph's footsteps, rather than do as my father expected.

ruthloss · 29-10-2013 09:54AM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I share your sentiments.

Me too.

CruelCoin · 29-10-2013 10:47AM

SoulandForm wrote: »

I can understand people doing it under special circumstances- such as defending the Spanish Republic in the 1930s, fighting the Axis in World War II or defending Syria today against the terrorists trying to destroy her but in general it seems to me to be dodgy at best and treasonable at worst. By joining an army you are pledging your loyalty to it and beyond that to the state it is there to act for beyond what is demanded of a normal citizen.

Some people who join the army would love to see combat. This will never happen with the Irish army. (please don't bring up peacekeeping. It's not combat, don't bother).

Not sure why it should be treasonable to fight for another country.

By the same logic it's economic treason if you improve the economy/infrastructure in another nation by working in retail/construction there.

How do you feel about Irish people joining foreign armies?

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