What would Ireland be like if the Famine never happened?

TheUsual · 24-06-2013 11:24PM

Yeah it wasn't a Famine as we were still exporting food, it was just never kept in Ireland.

Probably no 1916 rising.

Much higher population maybe means more market for products so we would have been less of an agricultural economy and more industrialised.

BillyMitchel · 24-06-2013 11:25PM

Imagine what the dole threads in here be like!

the_syco · 24-06-2013 11:29PM

Considering before WW1, German was nearly a second language in America, I'd say we'd be all speaking German now.

RuairiMul · 25-10-2013 03:10PM

sorry to revive such a dead thread, but (as much as people dont like it) we probably would be something along the lines of wales or scotland, the english were taxing irish people to live on/ farm their own lands, and as they increased the rent, the amount of land dedicated to selling increased, leaving less of the land for food, when they kept increasing their rents, the food amount went down, until only there was a small amount of land for food left, often growing potatoes, so thats why when the blight struck, it was so devastating, if there was no blight, the english would probably have been still taxing the land for years, similar to scotland or wales, a deal probably would have been struck to introduce ireland into the commonwealth? thoughts?

TheHighest92 · 25-10-2013 06:02PM

Alf Stewart would have a different face

Ireland wouldn't have a worldwide famous identity, it would probably be seen as a fragment of Britain

tdv123 · 25-10-2013 06:36PM

Some interesting quotes from that time period.

Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it.
- Thomas Carlyle, British essayist, 1840s

A Celt will soon be as rare on the banks of the Shannon as the red man on the banks of Manhattan.
- The Times, editorial, 1848 (during the famine)

The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people.
-Charles Trevelyan, head of administration for famine relief, 1840s (it was our own fault that the British Government allowed one million people to starve)

[existing policies] will not kill more than one million Irish in 1848 and that will scarcely be enough to do much good.
- Queen Victoria's economist, Nassau Senior

RuairiMul · 25-10-2013 06:50PM

tdv123 wrote: »

Some interesting quotes from that time period.

Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it.
- Thomas Carlyle, British essayist, 1840s

A Celt will soon be as rare on the banks of the Shannon as the red man on the banks of Manhattan.
- The Times, editorial, 1848 (during the famine)

The judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated. …The real evil with which we have to contend is not the physical evil of the Famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people.
-Charles Trevelyan, head of administration for famine relief, 1840s (it was our own fault that the British Government allowed one million people to starve)

[existing policies] will not kill more than one million Irish in 1848 and that will scarcely be enough to do much good.
- Queen Victoria's economist, Nassau Senior

mad to think what the general opinion of the irish was abroad then compared to now

Wabbit Ears · 25-10-2013 07:48PM

we would all be fully part of Great Britian, have the sterling currency and would never have joined the EU

overshoot · 25-10-2013 07:59PM

major bill wrote: »

We would have a better football league for starters!!

Bohs couldve been European Champions

na sure the biggest population drop was in the west...
galway would be huge, bigger than dublin and have 3 football clubs.... wait....

For Forks Sake · 26-10-2013 11:54AM

tdv123 wrote: »

Ireland is like a half-starved rat that crosses the path of an elephant. What must the elephant do? Squelch it - by heavens - squelch it.
- Thomas Carlyle, British essayist, 1840s

I take it the 1840s job title of 'essyist' would apply to modern-day sh1tehawks like Fintan O'Toole or John Waters who see fit to foist upon the public every nonsensical thought that passes through their minds?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 26-10-2013 12:27PM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I take it the 1840s job title of 'essyist' would apply to modern-day sh1tehawks like Fintan O'Toole or John Waters who see fit to foist upon the public every nonsensical thought that passes through their minds?

Thomas Nast the German American essayist and cartoonist who is known worldwide for his depiction of the Santa Claus figure (fat guy with white beard and red suit which Coca Cola later adopted) also produced the Ape like characters in tattered suits swigging from bottles of whiskey, An American portrayal of the Irish immigrants, his work was also used by Punch magazine in Britain.

He referred to the Irish as the white Negroes.

RossyG · 27-10-2013 01:27PM

tdv123 wrote: »

Some interesting quotes from that time period.

I presume you got those from here: http://irishblog-brianclarkenuj.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/10-trillion-war-reparations-due-by.html

The author of this piece writes:

"Total Annihilation;" screamed the Times leader of September 2, 1846

What the Times article of 1846 actually says is:

The disease having attacked the plant at a much earlier period this year than it did in 1945, the root has been arrested in its growth and prevented from arriving at maturity. Thus, what was last year a partial destruction is now a total annihilation and it is become a very general belief that the month of December will not find a single potato in the country. Ireland is, therefore, doomed to suffer a recurrence (if it should not rather be called a continuance) of that distress which has well night pauperised the whole nation.

The article later says:

The people expect to be fed and one way or another must be fed.

Thomas Carlye was a very influential Scottish essayist. I've tried to find if he actually wrote the elephant epigram, but can only find it quoted on rather anti-British websites where they don't fully attribute it and give a rather vague date of "1840s". So I've no idea if he said it all not. If he did, it's very different to his usual tone. In a private letter to his friend CG Duffy (Irish?) on 29/5/1849, Carlyle wrote "Ireland seems to me the notablest of all spots of the world at present."

I also can't find the Times quote about the rarity of a Celt, despite writing several keywords into the Times online website and restricting to search to the 1840s. I doubt it exists at all, but if it does then context will be all. It could be either a boast or a lament.

The Nassau William Senior quote has been mined out of context. He's actually saying, perhaps inelegantly, that even a million deaths won't mean there's enough food left for the survivors. He argued in support of the Irish poor in other writings.

Trevelyan, however, certainly said those things and is a cock for doing so.

cloud493 · 27-10-2013 02:36PM

What the hell is a red man?

27-10-2013 03:34PM

cloud493 wrote: »

What the hell is a red man?

A native American aka "Red Indian" or Injuns

Xivilai · 27-10-2013 06:21PM

cloud493 wrote: »

What the hell is a red man?

The Red Guy

What would Ireland be like if the Famine never happened?

Comments