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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Comments

  • #1232
    Gringo180
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Why didn't they bring the mother and father into custody with the child and leave them together until the dna test came back? It would of saved an awful lot of trauma for the family. Hope the sue the bollocks out of the government. The world has gone mad too many paranoid freaks out there!


  • #1233
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    The Gardaí had reason to believe they abducted a child based on the Greek case.
    And that reason was based purely on a racist assumption that Roma are childsnatchers. When shown that they were wrong, they refused to accept the evidence and insisted on a DNA test. Full marks for being thorough, but t's still racially motivated.


  • #1234
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Amnesty International was founded by Sean McBride - an ex-leader of the IRA who often defended IRA terrorists who murdered Gardaí in court.
    The Labour Party is led by ex-Stickies - former members of the Official IRA.
    Sinn Féin/IRA are heavily involved in left wing activism and agitation and create an alphabet soup of front organisations that are bank rolled by smuggling rackets.
    Journalism, the legal profession and the human rights industry is also stacked with ultra-leftists.
    That's a fact.
    The human rights industry is the creation of subversives who are hostile to the state.
    That is their agenda.
    Twisting the truth and facts for political power.

    Tongue firmly in cheek and spoken in RADA like tones :D


  • #1235
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    The Gardaí had reason to believe they abducted a child based on the Greek case.

    No, they didn't.
    Simple as that.


  • #1236
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    dub_skav wrote: »
    You know that you can be racist and correct.

    Some black people are good dancers, some jewish people are tight with money. Just because you use a racist motivation and end up being correct, doesn't mean that you weren't racist in the first place.

    Yes. That was my point. The Greece police were racist( by definitions here). The Gardai would have been racist even if they were right. By the definitions here.

    By this logic if there are further real suspicions of any Roma, here or anywhere in Europe nothing should be done.

    So by the logic of the self-regarding self promoting "moralists" on this thread that's a better solution than racism - a possibke life of servitude - because racist profiling and a day away from your family ( if the suspicions are wrong) is worse than a life in servitude ( if the suspicions are right). Because. Racism.

    But the "suspicions" are racist either way, as you suggest.

    In any utilitarian balance of moralities the precautionary principle should apply. Here because the usual suspects want to parade their PC version of themselves as holier than thou we disregard logic and apply no such principle: this is vomitious pseudo morality. A psychotic disregard for very real lives. Self regard disguised as concern.


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  • #1237
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,585 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Amnesty International was founded by Sean McBride

    No it wasn't.

    The rest of what you say above is even more devoid of fact and logic...


  • #1238
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    If in doubt the racist accusation always come handy doesn't it?

    So predictable.

    As predictable as your "facts", I'll warrant. Unfortunately you've spouted some very dubious stuff and seem to be in a hurry to tick every far right cliche in the book.

    All very worrying.


  • #1239
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    Amnesty International was founded by Sean McBride .
    Wrong again.
    Amnesty was founded in 1961 by British lawyer Peter Benenson.


  • #1240
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    drumswan wrote: »
    Nice one, in the meantime you can go and read the meaning of the word 'reasonable' in the dictionary, then read back over the thread. Good lad.

    :rolleyes:

    Again...Given that there was trouble involved with the parents recollection and documentation matters, it is possible to assume that the Gardai involved conculded that something may be amiss with this particular scenario. Hence, they were suspicious that something was not entirely correct and they acted.

    According to the thrust of the Child Care Act, the welfare of the child has to be uppermost in the enforcing officers mind when carrying out his/her tasks, so they are bound by that when intrepreting the given situation.

    The Garda has the powers to act in the immediate. They do not have to wait, they do not have to apply for an emergeny care order.

    All the Gardai are guilty of here is an over-zealous erring on the side of caution.


  • #1241
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »
    No, they didn't.
    Simple as that.

    Yes they did. It increases the "prior probabilities". But as the PC mob claim it is racist anyway even if they were right.


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  • #1242
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,315 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    The human rights industry is the creation of subversives who are hostile to the state.

    Yeah, police forces and armies can't go around beating confessions out of them any more. Them were the days.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1243
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Tony EH wrote: »
    All the Gardai are guilty of here is an over-zealous erring on the side of caution.

    And institutionalised racism.


  • #1244
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Yes. That was my point. The Greece police were racist( by definitions here). The Gardai would have been racist even if they were right. By the definitions here.

    By this logic if there are further real suspicions of any Roma, here or anywhere in Europe nothing should be done.

    That's the opposite of what people are saying. There should be an actual real suspicion instead of basing investigations on tv reports from other countries and Facebook posts.


  • #1245
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    By this logic if there are further real suspicions of any Roma, here or anywhere in Europe nothing should be done.

    Not at all.

    But when parents produce a passport for their child and provide Gardai with the date and location of the kids birth then the kid shouldn't be taken away from them.

    Perhaps examine the documents if they feel they're fake (which they weren't) but when the evidence points towards innocence then that should be presumed shouldn't it?


  • #1246
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    old hippy wrote: »
    I see this as yet another case of racism being embedded in parts of the Irish state and culture - you don't. Clearly.

    Anyways, we've established that racism doesn't bother you, it's never affected you in any way and you prefer to dismiss the idea of it happening in this case. Fair enough.

    Wow...just wow.


  • #1247
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Wow...just wow.

    I thought you were done Tony? You back to repeat yourself some more?


  • #1248
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    drumswan wrote: »
    I thought you were done Tony? You back to repeat yourself some more?

    Done with your contradiction.

    Read much?


  • #1249
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    I love watching the critical thinking and intellectual cut and thrust of these threads.

    It's like poetry. Or fencing.

    Or a poem about fencing.


  • #1250
    dub_skav
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭dub_skav


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I love watching the critical thinking and intellectual cut and thrust of these threads.

    It's like poetry. Or fencing.

    Or a poem about fencing.

    In a thread like this
    It is often for the best
    to remain en garde


  • #1251
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    A blonde kid living with gypsies in Greece is proven to have been snatched.
    A blonde kid living with gypsies in Ireland or indeed anywhere else in Europe would also come under suspicion.
    How hard is that to understand?
    Seriously.

    So you are saying that sole reason that the Guards took the child was racism. BTW, what you describe is simple racism, and I would certainly hope that the Guards had a lot more to go on then what your saying.
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    This is beyond a joke that it has to spelled out for you.
    You obviously have an agenda.

    Yes, there is an evil conspiracy and everyone has an agenda and is out to get you. The PC brigade are behind every tree, watching and waiting.

    Seriously, your coming out with some nonsense.....
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    The PC Brigade cranking up the "racist" cops rubbish on cue.
    Obviously this whole thing is pre-planned.

    Of course it was pre-planned, along with the rand corporation, the lizard people, and the reverse vampires.
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    You don't know.

    Ok..... I do have some knowledge, which I do admit could be lacking, as I already said....
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    There's the agenda right there. There has to be something wrong and if not let's invent it. Let's crucify the Gardaí for doing their job.

    Seriously? So if there was something that was done wrong, you would prefer to ignore it. Again complete nonsense, and hysteria from you.
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    The laws and the powers the Gardaí used were given to them because there was a hue and cry about children in danger in the past.
    The Gardaí acted in according with how people like you have been bleating for them to do for years - to intervene and protect children - and now you have a problem with it?
    Total joke.

    Your post is a total joke. Making up stuff, I never said, and then responding to it, and calling something I never said a total joke. Typical nonsense from posters who aren't able to argue there point, without descending into conspiracy, and hysteria.
    Balaclava1991 wrote: »
    This whole controversy has been created from start to finish by people with an axe to grind and an obvious political agenda.
    You are not fooling me or fooling anybody else.

    Yes, I have an agenda, my bosses the reverse vampires, planned this all along. Clearly, there is a vast evil conspiracy at work here.

    Seriously, I could care less what you say about me, or whatever crazy conspiracy you have invented. All your doing is making yourself look rather silly, with the nonsense you spouting.

    Its amazing how fast your descended into this crazy talk, and all the mad assumptions your making on the basis of someone daring to question, that maybe the Guards made a mistake. There Human like the rest of us, and if they made a mistake, its hardly wrong to say that if a mistake was made, then they should look at there procedures. Now according to you something simple like that is a conspiracy, and a political agenda. All, I am doing it discussing a topic, and end up being on the recieving end of some pretty desperate and hysterical crazy conspiracy nonsense.


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  • #1252
    drquirky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    Let the record show- I ****ing hate Political Correctness- I just hate racism and discrimination more.


  • #1253
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    I love watching the critical thinking and intellectual cut and thrust of these threads.

    It's like poetry. Or fencing.

    Or a poem about fencing.

    do you mean fencing or fencing ?:D


  • #1254
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »

    A blonde kid living with gypsies in Greece is proven to have been snatched.
    A blonde kid living with gypsies in Ireland or indeed anywhere else in Europe would also come under suspicion.
    How hard is that to understand?
    Seriously.
    This is beyond a joke that it has to spelled out for you.
    You obviously have an agenda.

    The simple fact is that this wouldn't have happened if the parents weren't roma.

    If you'd had two dark haired irish people with cork accents who had a blonde girl you wouldn't think they'd snatched them or think it was ok to take the child. If you think it's ok to remove a child from their parents simply because they're Roma, then you're racist/discriminating.

    That's what racism is. It's changing the rules because of someone colour.


  • #1255
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Plain and simple.
    Cops turn up at family door.
    Hey, that kid of yours does not look like you. Have you got his birth cert and do you know its blood type?
    For me personally i would have to scour the house from top to bottom to find the kids birth certs and the thought of doing that with my heart in my mouth and the police breathing down the back of my neck!
    Plus, i do not know the kids blood types!
    Okay then Missus, they're coming with us, your kids, or no hang on, just this small wee one, the little two year old one.
    I am begging you, do not take my children!
    Sorry about that we have reason to believe they are abducted.
    I am begging you do not take my precious child.
    Tough luck Missus. That's the way we roll. Come here young fella. (Off they go)
    Can you imagine!

    As for other more equitable ways to protect children, take the whole family into custody while you do DNA checks. Keep a cop on the door of their house while you wait for the results. But, dear God, do not want into someones home and pick up their child and walk out with it.


  • #1256
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,352 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Grayson wrote: »

    The simple fact is that this wouldn't have happened if the parents weren't roma.

    If you'd had two dark haired irish people with cork accents who had a blonde girl you wouldn't think they'd snatched them or think it was ok to take the child. If you think it's ok to remove a child from their parents simply because they're Roma, then you're racist/discriminating.

    That's what racism is. It's changing the rules because of someone colour.


    The only actual racism being employed here is from the curtain twitcher who reported the family to the Gardai in the first place, based on nothing but there own prejudice and the saturation of news reporting of the Greece case.

    Other than that, there are no real grounds for crying racism.

    Which raises an interesting question about what the Gardai will do with said reporter.

    Although I would say that they are rather eager to let the whole embarrassing episode die down at the stage.


  • #1257
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Balaclava1991 wrote: »

    The Gardaí had reasonable suspicions

    How do you know the suspicicion was reasonable?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #1258
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,030 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Tony EH wrote: »
    The only actual racism being employed here is from the curtain twitcher who reported the family to the Gardai in the first place, based on nothing but there own prejudice and the saturation of news reporting of the Greece case.

    Other than that, there are no real grounds for crying racism.

    Which raises an interesting question about what the Gardai will do with said reporter.

    Although I would say that they are rather eager to let the whole embarrassing episode die down at the stage.

    And whoever ordered the taking of a child on such flimsy grounds. And people who thought it was ok to do so.
    I mean, they took a child from their parents. That's messed up. Never would you imagine that the police would turn up at your door and just take your child away. Anyone who thought the guards acted appropriately is wrong. Ok a serious allegation was made, but could you imagine how the cops would react if I rang the cops and told them the my irish neighbours had kidnapped their child as a baby. Especially if my only proof was that they had different coloured hair to their parents.


  • #1259
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    second most read story on Guardian.co.uk

    So embarassing on so many levels.


  • #1260
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Plain and simple.
    Cops turn up at family door.
    Hey, that kid of yours does not look like you. Have you got his birth cert and do you know its blood type?
    For me personally i would have to scour the house from top to bottom to find the kids birth certs and the thought of doing that with my heart in my mouth and the police breathing down the back of my neck!
    Plus, i do not know the kids blood types!
    Okay then Missus, they're coming with us, your kids, or no hang on, just this small wee one, the little two year old one.
    I am begging you, do not take my children!
    Sorry about that we have reason to believe they are abducted.
    I am begging you do not take my precious child.
    Tough luck Missus. That's the way we roll. Come here young fella. (Off they go)
    Can you imagine!

    As for other more equitable ways to protect children, take the whole family into custody while you do DNA checks. Keep a cop on the door of their house while you wait for the results. But, dear God, do not want into someones home and pick up their child and walk out with it.

    Wish I could thank this post a million times! Can you imagine the uproar there'd be if they did this to a white, middle class family living in a leafy suburb of D4? "Er...sorry that kid there looks a bit dark to be yours" :eek: and then proceed to just physically take their baby away from them??? How on earth could they establish reasonable grounds for believing the child was in imminent danger based on his skin colour? As for the "concerend citizen" who reported the child? Back seat detective, Joe duffy fan with nothingbetter to do than poke their nose into other people's business. Probably be down in the local living off the story for the next year...


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  • #1261
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    K-9 wrote: »
    Apparently the law used is from 1991 so nothing to do with the referendum, wont stop people claiming it was though.

    I knew that, but the children's referendum if allowed to be put into law - a court case over it, will make it easier again.


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