Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

23-10-2013 11:40PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Apparently they acted very quickly in that case too.

Hard to get a point across with the privacy around the case but the new baby was always going to be taken away, the threat was previously identified and acted upon.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 11:40PM

mhge wrote: »

That case took weeks if not months to unfold and the mother was aware of the proceedings. Not based on the appearance either (mother's partner was violent, she chose to remain with him).

Someone asked to be informed when a child was taken into care. I gave it.

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 11:40PM

Scortho wrote: »

Reverse the situation. Your child gets kidnapped at age 1. Four years down the line people notice, that child has no features of "parents" (lets say coloured parents white baby). At the time of the investigation no evidence can be provided to back up that the child is their child. Gardaí decide to not investigate further.

10 years down the line this child turns out to be your missing child.

How angry would you be?

There was evidence. There was evidence given by the family and evidence missed by the Gardai. And the parents wilfully submitted to DNA tests.

I'd be really angry if my child was removed despite the evidence. If be so angry, that I'd probably sue the State.

Pappa Charlie · 23-10-2013 11:41PM

Phoebas wrote: »

For the umpteenth time.
Nobody is saying that the Gardai shouldn't have acted, just that they shouldn't have taken the child into custody based on a flawed two hour investigation.

Flawed 2 hour investigation? Then why did they have to wait two days for a DNA test

Nodin · 23-10-2013 11:41PM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Flawed 2 hour investigation? Then why did they have to wait two days for a DNA test

....I don't get you...

23-10-2013 11:41PM

Scortho wrote: »

I didnt want to use "black" as I felt someone might be offended by that more:o
Apologies to any poster who I offended.

Doubt anyone was offended, just one of those things that can give off the wrong impression.

Evidence was provided post the child being taken into care was it not. When hospital records were checked no child with those details popped up. However it then transpired that the maiden name of the mother was used which would have caused confusion.

Passport and birth cert were provided right at the start. Not much more the parents could have done.

In my opinion its better to have 100% proof that the child was theirs as opposed to it transpiring 10 years later that it wasn't.

No such thing as 100% proof.

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 11:42PM

tayto lover wrote: »

There was a child taken from a family near the border a few weeks ago -

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dayold-baby-taken-from-mother-in-hse-custody-until-monday-29615204.html

Child returned a week later when threat was removed (boyfriend).
Not far from where I live it seems.

Completely different situation - they knew who the parents where

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 11:43PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I'm afraid that won't cover the low blow you gave earlier Ace.

Like I said report my post - or did you even read my post?

strandroad · 23-10-2013 11:43PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Someone asked to be informed when a child was taken into care. I gave it.

Children that do not look like their parents. Not the case.

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 11:46PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Perhaps by putting the parents under house arrest while checks were made but that probably isn't part of the protocols used in cases like this.

The parents fully cooperated with the investigation, so no arrest of any kind was necessary. They could have easily have come to some kind of supervision arrangement while the investigation was ongoing, which would have been much more preferable to taking a child from its parents.

Overdahill · 23-10-2013 11:47PM

Phoebas wrote: »

There was evidence. There was evidence given by the family and evidence missed by the Gardai. And the parents wilfully submitted to DNA tests.

I'd be really angry if my child was removed despite the evidence. If be so angry, that I'd probably sue the State.

You and me both. I would be f*****g livid. But also really really scared because the reality is that if after two short hours the guards and Hse decided to take my child into care until a DNA test proved the child was mine, ,there is virtually nothing I could do to stop that scenario unfolding. That's terrifying.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 11:48PM

mhge wrote: »

Children that do not look like their parents. Not the case.

There were obviously other reasons too. All will be revealed. I don't like to see this happening at all but I believe the authorities were left with no option given the situation at the time. This is based on the story given so far.

P_1 · 23-10-2013 11:48PM

Have to say that these cases are worryingly similar to the Magdalene Laundries

opiniated · 23-10-2013 11:49PM

5littleangels wrote: »

Two brown eyed people can have a blue eyed child. Brown is a dominant gene and blue recessive (weaker). So if a child has a blue and brown gene with regards their eyes they will have brown eyes. If a couple have a child the child gets one gene from each couple so if both parents have brown eyes but have a blue gene and a brown gene each then the child can have blue eyes. Two blue eyed people can not have a brown eyed child. Blue eyed people have two blue genes. I felt sick when I read that they had taken that girl based on the fact that her eyes were blue its shameful. They could have gone about this many different ways to avoid traumatising the child by removing her from her parents to check her dna against theirs. The thought of this happening to my own children makes me feel sick to the stomach I cant really believe that educated people, people with university degrees who are supposed to be the most intelligent in our society made a decision like this it is frightening.

My parents both had blue eyes.
My eyes are hazel, my brothers are brown. The rest of my siblings have blue eyes.

My husbands eyes are green.
His father had blue eyes, his mother had brown eyes.
Half my children have blue eyes. The rest have hazel, or brown eyes. No green eyes, strangely enough.

Methinks genetics are not quite as simple as the "experts" make out!:p:D:D

mhge wrote: »

They still can, but it will be much less frequent. Recessive/dominant genes are not black & white like that. I don't think there's a combination that can be absolutely eliminated, some are just very rare. Which only shows how silly it is to base such actions on one's colouring only.

+1

Red21 · 23-10-2013 11:50PM

short vid here on the Roma, in case anybody thinks they haven't suffered enough already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6wSLfGBVGY

FlawedGenius · 23-10-2013 11:50PM

Dont know whats going on. So 2 Roman Gypsy's produced a blonde blue eyed child? Hows that possible unless 1 of the parents is light haired and blue eyed, which wouldn't make both of them gypsies??

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 11:50PM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Flawed 2 hour investigation? Then why did they have to wait two days for a DNA test

They went for DNA testing after the flawed two hour investigation failed to uncover the birth cert that they missed.

wicklowstevo · 23-10-2013 11:52PM

mabey mammy roma has some explaining to do to daddy roma !!!

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 11:54PM

opiniated wrote: »

My parents both had blue eyes.
My eyes are hazel, my brothers are brown. The rest of my siblings have blue eyes.

My husbands eyes are green.
His father had blue eyes, his mother had brown eyes.
Half my children have blue eyes. The rest have hazel, or brown eyes. No green eyes, strangely enough.

The Child Catcher is on his way to your location.

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 11:58PM

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Dont know whats going on. So 2 Roman Gypsy's produced a blonde blue eyed child? Hows that possible unless 1 of the parents is light haired and blue eyed, which wouldn't make both of them gypsies??

Recessive traits Common enough. There is blond hair and blue eyes in the Roma gene pool, it's just less common that you see it.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 23-10-2013 11:58PM

It's a crime to take someone's child unless they're in immediate danger. Now unless their place was a kip (which it could have been) then nobody has the right to take your child away from you provided you are a legal custodian of said child.

I hope they don't sue the state because we're broke as **** as it is and the parents will probably win some damages.

They were racially profiled and had their child taken off them. If the Guards had come and taken a child off Sean and Sheila Murphy (one a teacher and the other a librarian) people would lose their sh1t altogether about this. Who do the state think they are taking peoples children blah blah blah and the thing is they would be right to be angry about it. It's Romas though, so many people couldn't give a toss about them.

I don't exactly hold the Roma people in high regard but from the information that I've read about this story so far I think this was wrong and it was a bad call.

Nodin · 24-10-2013 12:02AM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

Recessive traits Common enough. There is blond hair and blue eyes in the Roma gene pool, it's just less common that you see it.

...wasn't there a couple a few years back here that had a baby with African features? They had to dig through records to eventually find both had black ancestors around the end of the 19th century, as far as I can remember.

RobertKK · 24-10-2013 12:02AM

It is disgusting the state has been involved in child abductions and had a referendum to make it easier earlier this year.

24-10-2013 12:08AM

Nodin wrote: »

...wasn't there a couple a few years back here that had a baby with African features? They had to dig through records to eventually find both had black ancestors around the end of the 19th century, as far as I can remember.

There was a programme on TV a few years ago about twins who are different colours from one white and one black parent.

WhatNowForUs? · 24-10-2013 12:09AM

So how worried should one be if they have an adopted child? Does it depend on what the parents look like and also what documents do they need to have continuously on them?

K-9 · 24-10-2013 12:11AM

It seems odd that all this case took was a call from a TV3 viewer and a facebook post to get action taken. I remember a social worker telling me how difficult it is to get children removed so it's amazing how quick they acted here.

It's a job I couldn't do, Guards and the authorities in cases like this get it from everywhere.

Roger_007 · 24-10-2013 12:11AM

wicklowstevo wrote: »

mabey mammy roma has some explaining to do to daddy roma !!!

Maybe even granny Roma might have questions to answer.....who knows. I'd say if every child in the country was tested in this way there might be an awful lot of explaining to be done.:D

Fussgangerzone · 24-10-2013 12:12AM

Nodin wrote: »

...wasn't there a couple a few years back here that had a baby with African features? They had to dig through records to eventually find both had black ancestors around the end of the 19th century, as far as I can remember.

Well there was one the other way around in London, two black Nigerians had a white baby, all theirs: http://nypost.com/2010/07/21/blond-bombshell/

A bit of trivia I like about genetics: There is more genetic variation in one troop of chimpanzees that there is in the entire human race.

K-9 · 24-10-2013 12:13AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is disgusting the state has been involved in child abductions and had a referendum to make it easier earlier this year.

Apparently the law used is from 1991 so nothing to do with the referendum, wont stop people claiming it was though.

strandroad · 24-10-2013 12:20AM

Roger_007 wrote: »

Maybe even granny Roma might have questions to answer.....who knows.

Or granny Roma's wartime rapist... lots of such stories in 20th century Europe.

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1