Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

My name is URL · 23-10-2013 10:07PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Seriously now? You are telling me that after heavily publicized case in Greece which was a genuine case of child abduction by gypsies that the Gardaí are not going to hop to it and check out gypsies with a blonde kid in Ireland?
Better safe than sorry - take the kid from the family and make sure it is safe before they can do a runner while the facts are checked out.

I hope you keep on using condoms

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:09PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

but the HSE were involved , so its not just on the word of the cops , they must also had a fear , as did the judge that must have been involved to grant the order

they all must have seen something to warrant this action

They got involved after the kid was taken as per Section 12. Again what danger was the kid in? Ifs, buts and maybes have no place in the relevant law.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:10PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

They got involved after the kid was taken as per Section 12. Again what danger was the kid in? Ifs, buts and maybes have no place in the relevant law.

If you place a net under a trapeze artist in case he'd fall I think you would be doing the right thing even if he didn't.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Except it wasn't a similar case.

But the Gardaí didn't know that at the time did they?????? Are you not able understand basic logic and common sense?

Have you ever seen the episode of South Park when all the adults leave because of a news report that kids' own parents are the biggest danger to the kids? It's a nice bit of satire on what would happen if people let that idea apply where it doesn't.

I don't watch silly cartoons. I live in the real world thank you very much.

I really would like to meet these experts sometime. No-one along the chain of action apparently has read a popular science article on genetics in entire their lives.

And you don't see why they would have been even a teeny weeny bit suspicious that the kid was abducted?

You are not a serious person.

You are definitely taking the mickey now.

Adios.

Susie564 · 23-10-2013 10:12PM

I think the child protection legislation we voted in was absolutely the right thing. It seems to me that the Gardai acted correctly given the circumstances (although this should also be investigated to be sure they did everything right - as that is important too). I was delighted to hear today that they had gotten it wrong and the children were back with their families.

I have some experience of a child protection issue when I was younger where "responsible" adults suspected what was going on and said nothing. As a result they put more children in harms way.

Any parent (or responsible adult) should be happy to co-opperate with the authorities in any case relating to child protection (whether it is their own child or someone elses). They won't always get it right but if your own child is not at risk someone elses might be and these procedures are in place to protect those in harms way. Sometimes good, loving parents find it difficult to see how a parent could treat their own children badly in their own home/family but for a lot of children being with their parents and in the family home is not the safest place for them.

My fear is that cases like this will deter people from reporting in future or will deter the authorities from taking the appropriate steps for fear of getting it wrong. You should always report any concerns relating to child protection - and they should always be investigated.

Like others have said, if the children had turned out to not be belonging to these families and the authorities had not acted, that would be an infinitely worse situation in my opinion.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:12PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think the child in Greece was at risk?
I don't think the HSE have to wait for a court order they seem to have the power to take the child and then apply if they feel the child is at risk.

Exactly! They can only take the kid if there is serious and immediate risk. I still can't see that in this case. Saying they might have legged it is just conjecture.

I have little knowledge of the Greece case. But I do know the circumstances were very different.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 10:15PM

Susie564 wrote: »

I think the child protection legislation we voted in was absolutely the right thing.

What child legislation did we vote on?

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:16PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

If someone calls the Gardaí with a complaint or suspicion of a crime they have to check it out.

What if next weekend someone calls the Gardaí claiming they heard gunshots and the Gardaí laugh and say its only fireworks and it turns out someone was actually shot dead?

The Gardaí have to follow up calls about a suspected crime.

End of story.

There is following up and there is jumping in at the deep end and taking the child without doing your homework. I would love to see a garda coming out to Dalkey and trying to take a child off a family because of a complaint/suspicion.

23-10-2013 10:17PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

But the Gardaí didn't know that at the time did they?????? Are you not able understand basic logic and common sense?

What makes it a similar case?

I don't watch silly cartoons. I live in the real world thank you very much.

A fantasy world it seems.

And you don't see why they would have been even a teeny weeny bit suspicious that the kid was abducted?

You are not a serious person.

You are definitely taking the mickey now.

Adios.

Toodles.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:17PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Exactly! They can only take the kid if there is serious and immediate risk. I still can't see that in this case. Saying they might have legged it is just conjecture.

I have little knowledge of the Greece case. But I do know the circumstances were very different.

If police suspect a child is abducted then they have to assume the child in a serious and immediate risk don't they?

I can't believe I actually have to ask that question!

Don't you think if people are lunatic enough to steal a child from its parents they are lunatic enough to do harm to the child?

Didn't occur to you? No?

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 10:17PM

Susie564 wrote: »

I think the child protection legislation we voted in was absolutely the right thing. It seems to me that the Gardai acted correctly given the circumstances (although this should also be investigated to be sure they did everything right - as that is important too). I was delighted to hear today that they had gotten it wrong and the children were back with their families.

I have some experience of a child protection issue when I was younger where "responsible" adults suspected what was going on and said nothing. As a result they put more children in harms way.

Any parent (or responsible adult) should be happy to co-opperate with the authorities in any case relating to child protection (whether it is their own child or someone elses). They won't always get it right but if your own child is not at risk someone elses might be and these procedures are in place to protect those in harms way. Sometimes good, loving parents find it difficult to see how a parent could treat their own children badly in their own home/family but for a lot of children being with their parents and in the family home is not the safest place for them.

My fear is that cases like this will deter people from reporting in future or will deter the authorities from taking the appropriate steps for fear of getting it wrong. You should always report any concerns relating to child protection - and they should always be investigated.

Like others have said, if the children had turned out to not be belonging to these families and the authorities had not acted, that would be an infinitely worse situation in my opinion.

Nobody is saying that they shouldn't have investigated or that they shouldn't have acted.
But they didn't have to take the child into custody. They could easily have come to an alternative arrangement that kept the parents with their child under supervision while the investigation was ongoing.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:18PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Exactly! They can only take the kid if there is serious and immediate risk. I still can't see that in this case. Saying they might have legged it is just conjecture.

I have little knowledge of the Greece case. But I do know the circumstances were very different.

Then they must have thought so.

constance tench · 23-10-2013 10:19PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

or they could just ring the person who does this for a living , anyway , the person at the end of the phone would still be the one checking the records when the cops arrive , same conclusion

im sorry , but slagging them for not going to the hospital is a bit weak

bet when you ring your doctor to get some results you dont then go down and physically check them , just in case the guy at the end of the phone made a mistake. cops worked on the same assumption

I'm not sure if anyone is slagging them...It's called Due Diligence...and... would expect such of AGS in a situation where a child may be taken from their Natural parents.

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:19PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Then they must have thought so.

Then why have the child returned....

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 10:19PM

Susie564 wrote: »

I think the child protection legislation we voted in was absolutely the right thing.

The referendum? Yeah, me too.

The kids in Athlone and Tallaght were taken under the Child Care act of 1991, mind you.

I grew up as the only blond blue-eyed kid in my house, and there was no birth cert for me for years, it was lost and I got a new one for my first passport aged about 17.

Isn't it lucky for us there was no curtain-twitching neighbour who didn't like people from our part of the world?

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:20PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

They got involved after the kid was taken as per Section 12. Again what danger was the kid in? Ifs, buts and maybes have no place in the relevant law.

you know i dont know , as you dont , what a pointless question

but i would have to take the view that the trio of garda , HSE and a judge that it warranted the action they took

time will tell

23-10-2013 10:20PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

you know i dont know , as you dont , what a pointless question

but i would have to take the view that the trio of garda , HSE and a judge that it warranted the action they took

time will tell

So let's take all the kids?

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What makes it a similar case?

Do I actually have to spell it out?

Blonde haired blue eyed child is found living with gypsy couple in Greece.
Gypsy couple are not parents.
Child has been abducted by gypsies.
Gardaí are told about another blonde haired blue eyed kid living with gypsy couple in Ireland.
They check it out and couple do not have documents.
While they are doing more investigating they decide gypsies could be flight risk and take girl into care to avoid harm coming to child.

Police work 101.

A fantasy world it seems.

You clearly are incapable of using basic reasoning and common sense aren't you?

Toodles.

Pardon?

wp_rathead · 23-10-2013 10:23PM

Worth a read

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 10:23PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Then why have the child returned....

Because they found out that all was above board. Before that they obviously had doubts and felt the child may have been abducted.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 10:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So let's take all the kids?

until the final ok comes in , yes , that is how it works

imagine the outcry if it had been the other way around - left the kid and something happened

Fussgangerzone · 23-10-2013 10:24PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Do I actually have to spell it out?

You clearly are incapable of using basic reasoningracism and common senseprejudice aren't you?

Fixed that for ya

emo72 · 23-10-2013 10:24PM

i was watching the video in the greek case, where the mother is filming the blonde girl dancing and in the background a romany boy is smiling (her brother?) he tries to join in and dance with his sister. the mother lashes him out of the way and he goes flying out of the picture. im sure that kid will have issues when he grows up!

23-10-2013 10:25PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Do I actually have to spell it out?

Blonde haired blue eyed child is found living with gypsy couple in Greece.
Gypsy couple are not parents.
Child has been abducted by gypsies.
Gardaí are told about another blonde haired blue eyed kid living with gypsy couple in Ireland.
They check it out and couple do not have documents.
While they are doing more investigating they decide gypsies could be flight risk and take girl into care to avoid harm coming to child.

Ah, gotcha. And they did have documents.

Police work 101.

I heard some black people shot up a shopping centre in Kenya a while back, we should stop them from going to Dundrum.

You clearly are incapable of using basic reasoning and common sense aren't you?

You're saying they had no documents when they did.

Pardon?

Thought you were done talking to me.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:26PM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

The referendum? Yeah, me too.

The kids in Athlone and Tallaght were taken under the Child Care act of 1991, mind you.

I grew up as the only blond blue-eyed kid in my house, and there was no birth cert for me for years, it was lost and I got a new one for my first passport aged about 17.

Isn't it lucky for us there was no curtain-twitching neighbour who didn't like people from our part of the world?

You don't see any reason why in the light of the case in the Greece that neighbors would not be even a teensy weensy little bit suspicious of a gypsy family with a blonde kid?

No?

Sure?

Have a think again about it would you?

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 10:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, gotcha. And they did have documents.

I heard some black people shot up a shopping centre in Kenya a while back, we should stop them from going to Dundrum.

You're saying they had no documents when they did.

Thought you were done talking to me.

You are clearly an idiot.

We are done.

wp_rathead · 23-10-2013 10:27PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

You don't see any reason why in the light of the case in the Greece that neighbors would not be even a teensy weensy little bit suspicious of a gypsy family with a blonde kid?

No?

Sure?

Have a think again about it would you?

do you listen to yourself? honestly?

Susie564 · 23-10-2013 10:29PM

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

The referendum? Yeah, me too.

The kids in Athlone and Tallaght were taken under the Child Care act of 1991, mind you.

I grew up as the only blond blue-eyed kid in my house, and there was no birth cert for me for years, it was lost and I got a new one for my first passport aged about 17.

Isn't it lucky for us there was no curtain-twitching neighbour who didn't like people from our part of the world?

My bad - got the act part wrong - I thought it had a bearing on this case - sorry!

Maybe your neighbours did think you'd been abducted but didn't want to report it in case they were wrong. There's always curtain twitching!

Ace2007 · 23-10-2013 10:29PM

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

.
Gardaí are told about another blonde haired blue eyed kid living with gypsy couple in Ireland.
They check it out and couple do not have documents.

Did you read any of the news - they did produce documents.

23-10-2013 10:29PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

until the final ok comes in , yes , that is how it works

So you're suggesting that everyone in the country should have their children taken off them as soon as possible until a DNA test can confirm parentage?

imagine the outcry if it had been the other way around - left the kid and something happened

The kid is back so they could see no apparent danger to the kid, the only "danger" was a theoretical one which was manufactured by the baseless accusation of wrongdoing. Outcry usually happens in these cases when there are months/years of reports and missed opportunities. It doesn't seem to apply in this case.

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1