Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 07:53PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't believe from reading the story on several newspapers that they had other choices.

tayto lover wrote: »

My point is that there is much we don't know about this case BUT they obviously had their reasons.

Its hard to imagine that there isn't more to this story than meets the eye. The decision would presumably have been made by Gardai specialist in child protection, not by some beat cop, so its hard to imagine them making what looks to be a monumental screw up.

I look forward to the report of the investigation that's going to have to follow this.

LionelNashe · 23-10-2013 07:53PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

how did they get it wrong , please spell that out for me and the rest of the class???

No, I don't think I will. You can't be told.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 07:55PM

Lockstep wrote: »

It's been confirmed as their child.
Yup

great news !!!

so its not a kidnapped child - so the cops done the right thing in proving it was not kidnapped. the system works

lets all join hands and rejoice !!!

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 07:56PM

LionelNashe wrote: »

No, I don't think I will. You can't be told.

becasue you cant - oh well

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 07:56PM

Phoebas wrote: »

Its hard to imagine that there isn't more to this story than meets the eye. The decision would presumably have been made by Gardai specialist in child protection, not by some beat cop, so its hard to imagine them making what looks to be a monumental screw up.

I look forward to the report of the investigation that's going to have to follow this.

That's how I feel as well.
I would also give little heed to a journalist stating that they were allowed into a hospital to search through private records and even less to people who would believe that could happen.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 07:57PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

great news !!!

so its not a kidnapped child - so the cops done the right thing in proving it was not kidnapped. the system works

lets all join hands and rejoice !!!

Apart from the fact the Gardai didn't have the power to take the child, yeah the system works.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 07:57PM

Get Real wrote: »

I don't have a terribly strong view to either side of this story.

On the one hand there's the case of what if nothing was done and the child had have been abducted and how terrible that would be.

On the other the child was theirs, and a quick decision was made to call round to someones house and remove a child based on what was originally a facebook comment of suspicion.

But to be fair, there is a middle ground in this. Could the gaurds/social services, not have kept this a private matter, spend a while analysing and carrying out investigations in the background?

I think if this happened to say an Irish teacher and her husband living in Terenure there would be uproar. If I made a Facebook comment to a journalist, saying I suspect your kids aren't yours, and the following night the guards hammered on your door and whisked your children away for the night, is that ok? Just to be on the safe side like?

but this all would be correct - but for one thing

the case in Greece - the cops would have been hung if they ignored this information , no matter how tenuous

darkpagandeath · 23-10-2013 07:58PM

tayto lover wrote: »

That's how I feel as well.
I would also give little heed to a journalist stating that they were allowed into a hospital to search through private records and even less to people who would believe that could happen.

Since when are birth and death records private thought you could apply to view them

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 07:58PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

great news !!!

so its not a kidnapped child - so the cops done the right thing in proving it was not kidnapped. the system works

lets all join hands and rejoice !!!

How come this brilliant free kidnap checking service is available to the Roma but not to the Irish. First the free prams and now this. Not fair :mad:

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 07:59PM

Better safe than sorry.

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 08:00PM

tayto lover wrote: »

That's how I feel as well.
I would also give little heed to a journalist stating that they were allowed into a hospital to search through private records and even less to people who would believe that could happen.

I think they're public records.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 08:00PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Since when are birth and death records private thought you could apply to view them

Don't think you can. Will find out if I can.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 08:00PM

tayto lover wrote: »

That's how I feel as well.
I would also give little heed to a journalist stating that they were allowed into a hospital to search through private records and even less to people who would believe that could happen.

Eh birth registrys are a public record.

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 08:00PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Apart from the fact the Gardai didn't have the power to take the child, yeah the system works.

care to link to the act they broke ?
i would imagine the garda knew what act they could and could not take the child,

as has been said umpteen times in this thread from the start.
they acted in the best interest of the child , based on information supplied , and acting on the fact that the family could not prove to the contrary

they done the right thing at the time
the final outcome does not matter , it had to be proven first

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 08:02PM

Phoebas wrote: »

How come this brilliant free kidnap checking service is available to the Roma but not to the Irish. First the free prams and now this. Not fair :mad:

they are trying it out on a phased basis first - iron out the kinks if you like

but serious for a sec , is everyone going to ignore the global news that was the blond child in greece , the one that the family dont have papers for ???

as i said - everyone is a genius after the fact

Frank Lee Midere · 23-10-2013 08:02PM

Presumably with the children's referendum some extra powers were granted to the Gardai. If not I suppose heads should roll.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 08:03PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

care to link to the act they broke ?
i would imagine the garda knew what act they could and could not take the child,

as has been said umpteen times in this thread from the start.
they acted in the best interest of the child , based on information supplied , and acting on the fact that the family could not prove to the contrary

they done the right thing at the time
the final outcome does not matter , it had to be proven first

Link

There has been no suggestion that the child was in serious AND immediate risk.

Balaclava1991 · 23-10-2013 08:04PM

Phoebas wrote: »

How come this brilliant free kidnap checking service is available to the Roma but not to the Irish. First the free prams and now this. Not fair :mad:

A girl is found with a Roma family who are not her parents in Greece and sparks an international firestorm.

An upstanding citizen sees a blond haired child in the company of Roma gypsies in Ireland and is fearful of a similar situation and is compelled to tell the Gardaí.

The Gardaí are obliged to investigate a suspected child abduction and it seems on the face of it they are dealing with an identical case.

If authorities fear a child is kidnapped they are entitled to intervene.

Now that the kid is proven to be theirs they are going to give the child back.

That's the Gardaí doing their jobs.

Do you think the Gardaí should not check out suspected cases of child abduction or not?

I'm glad this country is taking the threat of child abduction so seriously since the state facilitated priests to abduct and imprison and rape children in the past.

darkpagandeath · 23-10-2013 08:04PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

care to link to the act they broke ?
i would imagine the garda knew what act they could and could not take the child,

as has been said umpteen times in this thread from the start.
they acted in the best interest of the child , based on information supplied , and acting on the fact that the family could not prove to the contrary

they done the right thing at the time
the final outcome does not matter , it had to be proven first

2.—(1) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that—
(a) there is an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child, and
(b) it would not be sufficient for the protection of the child from such immediate and serious risk to await the making of an application for an emergency care order by a health board under section 13 ,

petrolcan · 23-10-2013 08:05PM

constance tench wrote: »

Have a look at the ftp above.

I just did and it seems to me to be a guide for actors on how to play a Romany Gypsy.

I asked for evidence, not direction.

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 08:05PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Link

There has been no suggestion that the child was in serious AND immediate risk.

Do you think the child in Greece was at risk?

darkpagandeath · 23-10-2013 08:06PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think the child in Greece was at risk?

do you think Irish law is the same as Greece ?

petrolcan · 23-10-2013 08:07PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

It's just been confirmed that the 7 year old girl is the biological child of the Roma couple.

This has been a sad week for race relations in this country.

And on Boards!

Phoebas · 23-10-2013 08:08PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

but serious for a sec , is everyone going to ignore the global news that was the blond child in greece , the one that the family dont have papers for ???

as i said - everyone is a genius after the fact

Blond, presumed kidnapped girl in Greece + Roma + Blond Girl in Ireland + Roma = Blond Kidnapped Girl in Ireland.

It may well be that the problem is that people didn't ignore the news from Greece and jumped to the conclusion de jour.

namloc1980 · 23-10-2013 08:08PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think the child in Greece was at risk?

Didn't realize the Irish child care act was in force in Greece. Do you have a link for that?

tayto lover · 23-10-2013 08:08PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

do you think Irish law is the same as over there ?

Not a lot of difference i'd say. Now do you think the child in Greece was at risk?

dj jarvis · 23-10-2013 08:08PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Link

There has been no suggestion that the child was in serious AND immediate risk.

LOL

so , the garda walk away from the door , and suddenly the family do a vanishing act with the kid , and that is not a risk ???

your link proves nothing - i asked to show me the one they broke.
you have no idea what wen on in the house that day - so have no idea what they might or might not have broke

you forget that the word of the garda on the spot , at the time is worth a lot to a judge making an order

strangely - the word of a random internet dude is not

i will bet that the garda do not get sanctioned over taking the child

Pompey Magnus · 23-10-2013 08:09PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Presumably with the children's referendum some extra powers were granted to the Gardai. If not I suppose heads should roll.

I don't think that has been signed into law yet by President Higgins due to the appeal against it (unless he signed it this week during his trip to South America) so presumably the Gardai can't employ that yet.

strandroad · 23-10-2013 08:09PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

but serious for a sec , is everyone going to ignore the global news that was the blond child in greece , the one that the family dont have papers for ???

So what? I'm sure there are cases of illegal adoptions from Asia/Africa somewhere in Europe, does it mean that gardai can take teacher's daughter from Terenure into custody when they hear that because they don't like the papers her adoptive parents produced? Ah sure it's only a couple of days. There would be *uproar*.

darkpagandeath · 23-10-2013 08:10PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL

so , the garda walk away from the door , and suddenly the family do a vanishing act with the kid , and that is not a risk ???

your link proves nothing - i asked to show me the one they broke.
you have no idea what wen on in the house that day - so have no idea what they might or might not have broke

you forget that the word of the garda on the spot , at the time is worth a lot to a judge making an order

strangely - the word of a random internet dude is not

i will bet that the garda do not get sanctioned over taking the child

Works both ways that one

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

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Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN Mod Warning Post #1