Diesel Golf v Petrol Golf

CyberDave · 22-10-2013 11:55PM #1

On the lookout for a new car... My Dad has brainwashed me to not touch Petrol Golfs, but has never really backed up his argument.

What are the benefits of a Petrol Golf (1.4) over a Diesel??

Leonard Hofstadter · 23-10-2013 01:11AM

CyberDave wrote: »

On the lookout for a new car... My Dad has brainwashed me to not touch Petrol Golfs, but has never really backed up his argument.

What are the benefits of a Perrol Golf over a diesel??

I'm assuming you're looking at brand new.

Reasons to buy petrol:
- Faster (because it's a little lighter)
- Nicer to drive (this is subjective)
- No DPF
- No DMF (both mega bucks to repair)
- Lighter over the front, so handles better
- Quieter
- Sounds nicer
- A lot cheaper to buy
- Smoother, easier to do a smooth take off than with a diesel
- Less vibrations through the pedals than a comparable diesel
- Less complicated mechanically, so likely to be more reliable
- Throttle response (the delay between you putting your foot down and the car doing something) is much better in a petrol
- Much kinder to human health
- Much wider rev range and power band. Linear and much more predictable power delivery than a diesel
- More economical than you might expect, a claimed average of 57 mpg is better than what they were claiming for a diesel in this size of car even 5 years ago
- Far more tolerant of being in the 'wrong' gear than a diesel, won't stall if in too high a gear even at speed (unlike some diesels)

Reasons to buy the diesel engine:

- Superior resale value because so many people are (incredibly stupidly) brainwashed into buying diesel to save 20 cent a week on motor tax
- Costs less to tax (but only by €20 a year I think)
- Although slower outrigght, the diesel delivers its power at lower revs, so they can feel quicker in the real world (in actual fact, if you hold onto the gears in a petrol you can get at the power when you need it, so this is a totally moot point in my opinion, and besides, if you're overtaking a really slow moving vehicle in a diesel on a main road, you'll need to go up a few gears in the process, with a petrol you can go into say second at 20 kph and stay there until you're at 90-95, at which point you can go to 5th or 6th depending on the gearbox)
- Costs less to run not withstanding what I said about the DMF and DPF above if you do motorway miles, or do any significant amount of out-of-town driving every month (because the DMF and DPF are only really a problem if you do mostly town driving)
- Lower fuel consumption, 10-15 mpg at least, plus the lower cost of fuel on top of that
- A petrol may have a longer delivery time as most people want diesel even though petrol would suit their needs better
- Runs at lower revs on the motorway, so can actually be quiter than a petrol on motorways and main roads
- Some people simply prefer the way the power is delivered in a diesel - the notion of all the power coming in a fairly big lump does nothing for me but others like it

If you're buying second-hand, then it's a different story. 1.4 non turbo petrols are to be avoided at all costs, the most pathetic 'engine' VW has made. It is very underpowered for an engine that size yet it is also very unreliable. Anything is better than their old non turbo 1.4. Other models to be avoided are 1.9 TDI 150s (if we're going back to the Mk4), and 1.4 petrols with both the turbo and supercharger (these have a minimum of 140 bhp) in the Mk5 Golf.

bazz26 · 23-10-2013 01:14AM

Without knowing what generation of Golf the OP is talking about it's hard to answer the question.

JohnBoy26 · 23-10-2013 03:16AM

CyberDave wrote: »

On the lookout for a new car... My Dad has brainwashed me to not touch Petrol Golfs, but has never really backed up his argument.

What are the benefits of a Perrol Golf over a diesel??

What model/year Golfs?

DMW22 · 23-10-2013 03:55AM

Also what mileage will you be doing annually?

visual · 23-10-2013 06:18AM

There is a reason the petrols are cheaper and depreciation is higher. The 1.4 petrol engine wasn't VW masterpiece. Soft engine underpowered for heavy body on golf.

Diesel is much more powerfull and a lot more economical.

Sure there is always a potential DPF or DMF failure, maybe even a turbo going at some stage in its life. But most owners don't experience all these issues.

Let brake it down into worse case and running costs. DPF can be cleaned at small cost or can be removed and ECU reprogrammed for a couple hundred euro. Depending on your driving the savings over petrol version you could recope this in a month or two in fuel savings.

DMF it again is a couple hundred extra on clutch replacement.

Turbo recon for about 3 hundred.

So if you where very unfortunate to have all 3 fail in your first year you would still be ahead in annual fuel savings. Unless of course your doing small mileage then it would take much longer.

Sure some will say the mpg aren't that bad on 1.4 and tell you it happly do 40+ mpg then in same breath will tell you to get it to move you have to rev the crap out of it to hit the power band where mpg are dreadful.

Diesel have a lower revving engine and a bigger percentage of its power band starts at less than 2000rpm going up to 4500rmp

Meaning your driving at the start of power band and touch the throttle your off.

The higher torque of diesel means you don't have to keep dropping gears to keep moving.

The only way a petrol can even come close is having similar size cc engine then mpg are out the window.

Before you decide on petrol or diesel weigh up the type of driving your doing.

Short trips or heavy city traffic petrol will have lower maintenance cost. Big roads or motorways then diesel higher maintenance is offset with fuel savings.

The main reason I believe your father is dead set against the 1.4 petrol is because the engine has a poor reputation.

.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 08:58AM

captainspeed wrote: »

Reasons to buy petrol:
- Faster (because it's a little lighter)
- Nicer to drive (this is subjective)
- No DPF
- No DMF (both mega bucks to repair)
- Lighter over the front, so handles better
- Quieter
- Sounds nicer
- A lot cheaper to buy
- Smoother, easier to do a smooth take off than with a diesel
- Less vibrations through the pedals than a comparable diesel
- Less complicated mechanically, so likely to be more reliable
- Throttle response (the delay between you putting your foot down and the car doing something) is much better in a petrol
- Much kinder to human health
- Much wider rev range and power band. Linear and much more predictable power delivery than a diesel
- More economical than you might expect, a claimed average of 57 mpg is better than what they were claiming for a diesel in this size of car even 5 years ago

Reasons to buy the diesel engine:

- Superior resale value because so many people are (incredibly stupidly) brainwashed into buying diesel to save 20 cent a week on motor tax
- Costs less to tax (but only by €20 a year I think)
- Although slower outrigght, the diesel delivers its power at lower revs, so they can feel quicker in the real world (in actual fact, if you hold onto the gears in a petrol you can get at the power when you need it, so this is a totally moot point in my opinion, and besides, if you're overtaking a really slow moving vehicle in a diesel on a main road, you'll need to go up a few gears in the process, with a petrol you can go into say second at 20 kph and stay there until you're at 90-95, at which point you can go to 5th or 6th depending on the gearbox)
- Costs less to run not withstanding what I said about the DMF and DPF above if you do motorway miles, or do any significant amount of out-of-town driving every month (because the DMF and DPF are only really a problem if you do mostly town driving)
- Lower fuel consumption, 10-15 mpg at least, plus the lower cost of fuel on top of that
- A petrol may have a longer delivery time as most people want diesel even though petrol would suit their needs better
- Runs at lower revs on the motorway, so can actually be quiter than a petrol on motorways and main roads
- Some people simply prefer the way the power is delivered in a diesel - the notion of all the power coming in a fairly big lump does nothing for me but others like it
- Still rougher running than a petrol, and harder to do smooth takeoffs and gearchanges
- Far less tolerant of being in the 'wrong' gear than a petrol, may stall if in too high a gear even at speed

Re the bolded points - is this true for all golf petrols v all golf diesels? 1.4 mk4 golf v 1.9TDI mk4 ?
:rolleyes:

And as for the "more predictable power delivery" - I for sure can predict where the powerband and power delivery in my (and pretty much any) diesel - with so much as 30 seconds driving.

Tea 1000 · 23-10-2013 11:01AM

CyberDave wrote: »

On the lookout for a new car... My Dad has brainwashed me to not touch Petrol Golfs, but has never really backed up his argument.

What are the benefits of a Perrol Golf over a diesel??

Which Golf? The Mk4 Golf has fairly crap petrol engines.

Supergurrier · 23-10-2013 11:15AM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Re the bolded points - is this true for all golf petrols v all golf diesels? 1.4 mk4 golf v 1.9TDI mk4 ?
:rolleyes:

And as for the "more predictable power delivery" - I for sure can predict where the powerband and power delivery in my (and pretty much any) diesel - with so much as 30 seconds driving.

That's a 535d though not a normal run of the mill diesel.

The op was asking about golfs.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 11:29AM

Supergurrier wrote: »

That's a 535d though not a normal run of the mill diesel.

The op was asking about golfs.

Which I why I said the part about any diesel
Sure I owned a mark4 diesel golf TDI (complete with fake GTTDI faded red I badge) for over 2 years so I think I can have some opinion on this one

colm_mcm · 23-10-2013 11:36AM

The power delivery on the 1.4 is very predictable to be fair!

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 11:58AM

colm_mcm wrote: »

The power delivery on the 1.4 is very predictable to be fair!

Yes - predictable in its abscence!

But the poster said that power delivery in a diesel is unpredictable, which is just not true

bazz26 · 23-10-2013 12:07PM

Sure, the diesel ones coo.... :pac:

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 12:12PM

bazz26 wrote: »

Sure, the diesel ones coo.... :pac:

From the factory?

cabb8ge · 23-10-2013 12:21PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Yes - predictable in its abscence!

But the poster said that power delivery in a diesel is unpredictable, which is just not true

I thought he said the petrol was more predictable. Predictable is not like a switch on/off

Tea 1000 · 23-10-2013 12:37PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Yes - predictable in its abscence!

But the poster said that power delivery in a diesel is unpredictable, which is just not true

The diesel power delivery is predictable alright in the Mk 4. It goes like this...
Foot down, nothing... nothing.... nothing... everything + noise + smoke... nothing + noise, gearchange, repeat.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 12:41PM

cabb8ge wrote: »

I thought he said the petrol was more predictable. Predictable is not like a switch on/off

Yes he to petrol but in diesel not unpredictable opposite!

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The diesel power delivery is predictable alright in the Mk 4. It goes like this...
Foot down, nothing... nothing.... nothing... everything + noise + smoke... nothing + noise, gearchange, repeat.

Exactly. Predictable, not unpredictable.
Petrol power delivery in the 1.4 mk4 is
Foot down, nothing... nothing.... nothing... Gearchange

Sobanek · 23-10-2013 12:49PM

The 1.4 Golf is as gutless as a fish fillet.

Jesus. · 23-10-2013 01:10PM

captainspeed wrote: »

Although slower outrigght, the diesel delivers its power at lower revs, so they can feel quicker in the real world (in actual fact, if you hold onto the gears in a petrol you can get at the power when you need it, so this is a totally moot point in my opinion, and besides, if you're overtaking a really slow moving vehicle in a diesel on a main road, you'll need to go up a few gears in the process, with a petrol you can go into say second at 20 kph and stay there until you're at 90-95, at which point you can go to 5th or 6th depending on the gearbox)

That's interesting the way you put that, Captain. I said on a few threads down the months that I was convinced diesels were now faster than their equivalent petrols (well, turbo vs NA anyway!). But it appears that it might just "feel" that way rather than actually being the case.

I just find I have to absolutely cane my yoke to get anything out of it whereas the missus' Diesel does the same without breaking sweat. And the big thing there is that caning a 1.6 petrol guzzels go-juice like no tomorrow whereas the Diesel just sips away nice and easy.

I'm still going to stick to my guns though. I reckon a turbo diesel is quicker than its NA petrol equivalent.

Idioteque · 23-10-2013 01:13PM

Sobanek wrote: »

The 1.4 Golf is as gutless as a fish fillet.

lol...seeing as we're giving sweeping statements, I'd say all Black cars are faster than Grey cars.

OP - like someone else said, I think it depends on what model/engine etc Golf you are comparing. What type of mileage you are doing...

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 01:25PM

Idioteque wrote: »

lol...seeing as we're giving sweeping statements, I'd say all Black cars are faster than Grey cars.

OP - like someone else said, I think it depends on what model/engine etc Golf you are comparing. What type of mileage you are doing...

Sweeping, no. Power to weight, yes

Tea 1000 · 23-10-2013 03:16PM

Jesus. wrote: »

That's interesting the way you put that, Captain. I said on a few threads down the months that I was convinced diesels were now faster than their equivalent petrols (well, turbo vs NA anyway!). But it appears that it might just "feel" that way rather than actually being the case.

I just find I have to absolutely cane my yoke to get anything out of it whereas the missus' Diesel does the same without breaking sweat. And the big thing there is that caning a 1.6 petrol guzzels go-juice like no tomorrow whereas the Diesel just sips away nice and easy.

I'm still going to stick to my guns though. I reckon a turbo diesel is quicker than its NA petrol equivalent.

With most turbo cars, petrol or diesel, you're getting 80% of the performance for 20% of the effort. With most N/A cars, you need to work them, and the more you work them, the more you get back.
Turbo diesels run out of puff quickly when you push them hard, so at full throttle there's usually little difference.
Only a handful of turbo diesels are quicker than certain petrol N/A equivalents. A Honda S2000 will kick the snot out of most 3 litre diesels, let alone 2 litre ones!
1.6 N/A Jap engines 20 years ago were over 100bhp per litre.
There are only a handful of diesel engines today over that figure, and none have less than two turbos!
Turbo petrols will always win against turbo diesels of the same cc really! Evo FQ400 for example of lots of BHP from a 2 litre petrol!

Tea 1000 · 23-10-2013 03:18PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Yes he to petrol but in diesel not unpredictable opposite!

Exactly. Predictable, not unpredictable.
Petrol power delivery in the 1.4 mk4 is
Foot down, nothing... nothing.... nothing... Gearchange

Almost, foot down in the 1.4 is more like nothing.... nothing... noise+nothing... strange diesel-like strained noise + still nothing, gearchange!
Also predictable! But linear, unlike the peaky diesel delivery!

bazz26 · 23-10-2013 03:35PM

Given the OP's average post rate we could be waiting along time if at all for he/she to actually tell us what model he/she is referring to.

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 04:10PM

bazz26 wrote: »

Given the OP's average post rate we could be waiting along time if at all for he/she to actually tell us what model he/she is referring to.

He could have been looking at a classic, a 90's, a 00's or a 13. We will likely never know.
But hey, it sounds like a golf

Idioteque · 23-10-2013 04:13PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Sweeping, no. Power to weight, yes

A 1.4 GT Sport 170Bhp will have a better 'Power to weight' than lots of the 1.9 and 2.0 TDI's on our roads today...

Like I said...not all 1.4's are the same, likewise, not all 2.0 TDI's are the lower powered version.

Anjobe · 23-10-2013 04:13PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

...it sounds like a golf

The old Wolfsburg chuggabug!

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 04:16PM

Idioteque wrote: »

A 1.4 GT Sport 170Bhp will have a better 'Power to weight' than lots of the 1.9 and 2.0 TDI's on our roads today...

Like I said...not all 1.4's are the same, likewise, not all 2.0 TDI's are the lower powered version.

And that is different again. I clearly reference the MK4 golf - and here there is no 1.4GT

Idioteque · 23-10-2013 04:22PM

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

And that is different again. I clearly reference the MK4 golf - and here there is no 1.4GT

Sobanek wrote: »

The 1.4 Golf is as gutless as a fish fillet.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Sweeping, no. Power to weight, yes

...and I was talking about 'all' 1.4 Golf's being called 'Gutless as a fish fillet'

Sobanek · 23-10-2013 04:46PM

Idioteque wrote: »

lol...seeing as we're giving sweeping statements, I'd say all Black cars are faster than Grey cars.

OP - like someone else said, I think it depends on what model/engine etc Golf you are comparing. What type of mileage you are doing...

I've driven the MK4 1.4 75hp and it is gutless! The 1.6 is a much faster car (although still kind of sluggish).

The best MK4 Golfs are either the 1.8T or the 1.9 TDI (power to tax ratio)

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 23-10-2013 04:50PM

Idioteque wrote: »

...and I was talking about 'all' 1.4 Golf's being called 'Gutless as a fish fillet'

Sobanek's post was directly after mine, where I was discussing the mk4

At no time was it a generalization. Of course a 2013 turbo petrol is going to be responsive whereas a mid 90's designed 75hp 1.4 in a car that weighs as much as a house is not.

Diesel Golf v Petrol Golf

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