Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

1…6791112…66

Comments

  • #242
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭emo72


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    There are whole sections of society where life is tough and successive generations follow in the footsteps of their forefathers and (foremothers). It is unfair to single out a particular racial group and make them the scapegoats for all the social problems and criminal activities. It's much more complex than that

    They single out themselves. I wouldn't blame them for all social problems. Did you watch the YouTube documentary about them? They don't work, they get women and children to beg and steal, they make more money than doing a days work. Watch the documentary.


  • #243
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    There are whole sections of society where life is tough and successive generations follow in the footsteps of their forefathers and (foremothers). It is unfair to single out a particular racial group and make them the scapegoats for all the social problems and criminal activities. It's much more complex than that

    Who's singling out the Roma for all social problems and criminal activities?
    The spotlight happens to be on them, probably across Europe and just because people dont like what they see doesnt mean they are racists.

    The other thread has the BBC documentary, theft, begging among other unsavoury activities are things they admit to, they are not one offs, it seems to be part of who they are.
    No doubt being brought up in desperately poor conditions, although not all of them seem poor and many seem to exploit their own,are a part of why they seem to end up in the kind of activities they seem to do.
    But does that mean that we should turn a blind eye when certain activities are uncovered for fear of being labelled racists, I really cant see how much they contribute here???


  • #244
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MonsterCookie wrote: »
    what have the Roma ever done for us?:D

    They have great music traditions and I know that they have local music groups in Dublin too

    http://www.romaintegrationassociation.org/romani%20music.htm

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #245
    Donaldio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Donaldio


    Why is it with the Roma the always put the kids and especially always the women on the street to beg. What are the men doing ?


  • #246
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭cerastes


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Yes
    See these reports as a start

    http://www.nascireland.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NASC-ROMA-REPORT.pdf

    http://www.eaea.org/oed-projekt/doc/rescources/Roma-Communities-in-Ireland.pdf

    That will take a while to read before replying,
    But a brief look at the contents, the issues that affect them are issues that effect Irish people who cannot access those services due to their social or racial status
    I still dont see what they contribute here?
    What is it you think they contribute?


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭emo72


    Donaldio wrote: »
    Why is it with the Roma the always put the kids and especially always the women on the street to beg. Waht are the men doing ?

    They stay at home and play cards. The men don't work. They get the kids to steal and beg. They even sell their 13 year old daughters into marriages. Don't watch that documentary, it's very upsetting. I think we have been burying our heads in the sand when it comes to them.


  • #248
    Roger_007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Donaldio wrote: »
    Why is it with the Roma the always put the kids and especially always the women on the street to beg. What are the men doing ?

    The same thing as men are doing in many deprived areas in Ireland.......not a lot!


  • #249
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,784 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Donaldio wrote: »
    Why is it with the Roma the always put the kids and especially always the women on the street to beg. What are the men doing ?

    It's usually a man that drives the van dropping off the women at the various begging points in the morning


  • #250
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭emo72


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    The same thing as men are doing in many deprived areas in Ireland.......not a lot!

    No it's different. I don't know any cases of dad's selling their 13 yo daughters. I don't know any Irish lads that that get their kids to steal on the streets. Did you watch the documentary to see what they say about themselves? They admit it all.


  • #251
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭cerastes


    mango salsa wrote: »
    They have great music traditions and I know that they have local music groups in Dublin too

    http://www.romaintegrationassociation.org/romani%20music.htm

    Not sure how significant this is of value to Ireland really
    Roger_007 wrote: »
    The same thing as men are doing in many deprived areas in Ireland.......not a lot!

    Are you faulting men? because large numbers of previously employed men have been so marginalised by economic circumstances?
    Many men are looking after their children/families while their partners work, if they are lucky and Im sure plenty of other things too.


  • Advertisement
  • #252
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    cerastes wrote: »
    That will take a while to read before replying,
    But a brief look at the contents, the issues that affect them are issues that effect Irish people who cannot access those services due to their social or racial status
    I still dont see what they contribute here?
    What is it you think they contribute?

    What does anyone contribute? Firstly not all Roma are beggars so obviously a lot of them contribute to the workforce and to taxation in this country. Secondly a lot of them do actually want to integrate and they contribute to local communities through initiatives such as that linked to earlier on in Blackpool in Cork and indeed they contribute to Irish society by putting on display their musical heritage through concerts.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #253
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    cerastes wrote: »
    Not sure how significant this is of value to Ireland really

    The specific links don't show Ireland but Roma are beginning to play concerts in Dublin and display their musical heritage. That is a contribution to this country.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #254
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    mango salsa wrote: »
    What does anyone contribute? Firstly not all Roma are beggars so obviously a lot of them contribute to the workforce and to taxation in this country..

    Highly doubt that ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #255
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Gatling wrote: »
    Highly doubt that ,

    Meh - doubt away - I've met some of them so I know the truth - you on the other hand are just making invalid assumptions

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #256
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Meh - doubt away - I've met some of them so I know the truth

    That's regularly posted in the extraterrestrial forum,

    I've met and worked with Romanian's

    I've yet to come across a single employed Roma gypsie
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #257
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Gatling wrote: »
    I've yet to come across a single employed Roma gypsie
    Well I have so all you are doing is transposing your own lack of life experience into some sort of unreal reality

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #258
    Donaldio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Donaldio


    mango salsa wrote: »
    The specific links don't show Ireland but Roma are beginning to play concerts in Dublin and display their musical heritage. That is a contribution to this country.

    In fairnes mango salsa thats a matter of personal taste.


  • #259
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Donaldio wrote: »
    In fairnes mango salsa thats a matter of personal taste.

    Its still a contribution. Despite all the ignorant and poorly informed rhetoric here against them they do contribute to this country in various ways.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #260
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭cerastes


    mango salsa wrote: »
    What does anyone contribute? Firstly not all Roma are beggars so obviously a lot of them contribute to the workforce and to taxation in this country. Secondly a lot of them do actually want to integrate and they contribute to local communities through initiatives such as that linked to earlier on in Blackpool in Cork and indeed they contribute to Irish society by putting on display their musical heritage through concerts.

    I said that already myself, although Id be interested to know of the ratio of those Roma employed compared to their numbers here, you seem to think a lot of them do? I dont know as I dont have anything that proves they do or dont.
    I consider a lot of peoples concerns are legitimate,
    Im interested to see the outcome of this,
    Id be interested to see an opinion on the likelyhood a blonde blue eyed child being related to a people that I have never seen or heard of as being that, out of curiosity.
    Even if there is a connection, I still hope something comes of the serious problem of trafficking connected with anyone from any group.
    Turning a blind eye to any group for fear of insulting their heritage or traditions or being labelled a racist is insane.


  • #261
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Its still a contribution. Despite all the poorly informed rhetoric here against them they do contribute to this country in various ways.

    They contribute greatly to the economy by encouraging the purchasing of replacement wallets anyway. They also keep the security staff in many shops around the country busy thus boosting employment in that sector.


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    We are all aware that the referendum last year that was voted in allows for what happened, right? I don't like the idea of little kids being made feel scared, but if they did nothing, people would be here going insane saying "it's better to check".


  • #263
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    We are all aware that the referendum last year that was voted in allows for what happened, right? I don't like the idea of little kids being made feel scared, but if they did nothing, people would be here going insane saying "it's better to check".
    What has the referendum got to do with it?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #264
    Donaldio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Donaldio


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Its still a contribution. Despite all the ignorant and poorly informed here against them they do contribute to this country in various ways.

    Its not your postion to educate me ! I dont think of myself as ingorant either ! And i dont quote rhetoric !
    Get your facts straight ! If anything you are the ingnorant rhetoric quoter !


  • #265
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭cerastes


    mango salsa wrote: »
    What does anyone contribute? Firstly not all Roma are beggars so obviously a lot of them contribute to the workforce and to taxation in this country. Secondly a lot of them do actually want to integrate and they contribute to local communities through initiatives such as that linked to earlier on in Blackpool in Cork and indeed they contribute to Irish society by putting on display their musical heritage through concerts.

    Why obviously?
    mango salsa wrote: »
    Meh - doubt away - I've met some of them so I know the truth - you on the other hand are just making invalid assumptions

    If you've personally met some that do fine, Im not disputing that, but some out of how many, doesn't seem to me to add up the previous obvious lot that did before.
    mango salsa wrote: »
    Well I have so all you are doing is transposing your own lack of life experience into some sort of unreal reality

    I think its a bit unreasonable to suggest someone elses experience of them is wrong or lacking, its their experience, how can that be faulted.
    I havent come across many of them generally although I dont get out much these days, I dont consider myself lacking in real life experience though.
    Its just as likely your own experience is limited or coloured.

    Have you looked at the BBC documentary?


  • #266
    Donaldio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Donaldio


    mango salsa wrote: »
    What has the referendum got to do with it?

    The referendum about child care and child custody ever heard of that ?


  • #267
    thomur
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 279 ✭✭thomur


    Gatling wrote: »
    That's regularly posted in the extraterrestrial forum,

    I've met and worked with Romanian's

    I've yet to come across a single employed Roma gypsie


    Agreed. I live in the inner city. Never met one with a job. My mother has been burgled by them. My fathers 73 year old friend was pushed up against a wall and robbed by one of them. Roma tactic: when you rob money roll it up and leave it somewhere, so you can pick it up later(eg my fathers friends mugger put it in the grass between some railings). Luckily the Garda knew the trick, walked back and found it. 6 months for the useless waste of space


  • #268
    Donaldio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭Donaldio


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Its still a contribution. Despite all the ignorant and poorly informed rhetoric here against them they do contribute to this country in various ways.

    Why should i be poorly informed do you think i have no experiance in this life ?


  • #269
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    mango salsa wrote: »
    What has the referendum got to do with it?

    the referendum on the protection of children believed to be at risk? They believed the child was at risk so they did something about it.


  • #270
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    cerastes wrote: »
    Why obviously?

    If you've personally met some that do fine, Im not disputing that, but some out of how many, doesn't seem to me to add up the previous obvious lot that did before.

    I think its a bit unreasonable to suggest someone elses experience of them is wrong or lacking, its their experience, how can that be faulted.
    I havent come across many of them generally although I dont get out much these days, I dont consider myself lacking in real life experience though.
    Its just as likely your own experience is limited or coloured.

    You see thats the thing - people make false assumptions about Roma because they avoid them and never talk to them. It's not surprising that a lot of Irish people don't know Roma who work because a) Irish people avoid them and b) Roma who do work would hide their ethnic identity because of fears of racial abuse.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • #271
    patsyrockem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 253 ✭✭patsyrockem


    Munstermad wrote: »
    I wonder are we just at the tip of a massive child abuse iceberg? My apologies if this has already been said, I came in late in the discussion.. I have an awful gnawing feeling at the pit of my stomach that this is going to be huge... That we are looking at something pretty horrific... I really really hope I'm wrong.
    You are not wrong, these people are capable of anything. I would like to think that they spend their ill gotten gains wisely but they don't. They treat their women and children like dirt, and still expect to be treated fairly. If our pensioners carried on likewise maybe they could access the same services, medical cards, fines paid, allowances, allowances, sympathy, and a roof over their head. You won't see a r--a, t-in=er, din--le ma, p-r-r-r-t protest outside leinster house.


Advertisement