Kenny declares war on welfare culture

Padraig Mor · 21-10-2013 08:45PM

Tracy Alman wrote: »

HAVE you all forgotten the BANKSTERS and PROPERTY DEVELOPERS ( not one has been charged to date) some of whom are employed by that great thing called NAMA. AHHHHH YESSS POSTERS with typical Irish Style and with "OOR INDA" as cheerleader you attack the most vulnerable AHHH YESS the "craw thumpin Irish" good honest Catholics attack the least able to defend themselves, WELL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES you misguided cretins

The banks, NAMA, etc only account for a small portion of Ireland's debt. The vast majority of Ireland's deficit and national debt is due to the massive public spending, two thirds of which goes on welfare and public pay. Cretins indeed....

21-10-2013 08:54PM

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Or better still give them full time jobs and do the work that is being neglected
and replace council employees who retired.

That's what the gateway scheme is for. http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Gateway.aspx

Sand · 21-10-2013 08:58PM

I'm glad to see Enda Kenny is tackling welfare culture - would this welfare culture include tackling people who work as teachers for 4 years being entitled to 100K Euro lump sum plus a 30K annual pension in perpetuity? A man who has reached the age of 62 whilst only spending 4 years ( what, 6%?) of it in recognisable employment claiming such a pension would surely be a sign of welfare dependency. Surely the fight against welfare dependency begins at home?

Honestly, I believe there is a welfare dependancy culture in this country, but unlike Kenny I believe it extends to all levels of society. From the likes of Neary, Kenny and Bertie all the way down to the guys who have never known what a day's work feels like. If there is much difference.

21-10-2013 08:59PM

While I agree with anything that would encourage young people back into education, I think schemes like TUS, FAS CE Schemes and now Gateway are not helping things. Take a married couple, with 2 children. One parent takes up one of these schemes. They take home roughly €425 for a 19.5 hour week. They keep their rent allowance, medical card, fuel allowance, etc. All for doing a job for €22 an hour! Where is the sense in that? There is NO incentive to take up employment.

meoklmrk91 · 21-10-2013 09:00PM

Anyone who thinks that Enda Kenny will do anything meaningful to reform the welfare system is kidding themselves.

Like everything else in the last few years it will be the middle class and those who are most vulnerable who will be penalised in the last few years. The upper classes and the bottom feeders, for example my thirty something, drug dealing scumbag neighbour, with his rakes of children paid for by the state. who is currently driving a brand new car despite never having a job will continue to get away with it.

SCOOP 64 · 21-10-2013 09:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with anything that would encourage young people back into education, I think schemes like TUS, FAS CE Schemes and now Gateway are not helping things. Take a married couple, with 2 children. One parent takes up one of these schemes. They take home roughly €425 for a 19.5 hour week. They keep their rent allowance, medical card, fuel allowance, etc. All for doing a job for €22 an hour! Where is the sense in that? There is NO incentive to take up employment.

First Ive heard about the gateway scheme, how does it work out at €425 a week, just for one parent claiming other not working?
Genuine queston, just had a quick look it, didn't see these figures?

downonthefarm · 21-10-2013 09:26PM

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

jonnny68 · 21-10-2013 09:29PM

Elephant Man from china wrote: »

It was great to read an article like this.. Enda wants to do this but is being held back the scrounger supporting communists he is in coalition with.

It's a total joke that the middle classes are paying some of the highest effective tax rates in Europe but get the fewest services. While the scrounger class get literally everything for free and there is no push yo get them back to work / work for their benefits.they are being protected to the hilt by a government party. There is no reason for anyone in Dublin to be unemployed, the capital has full employment. Everyone knows this, but few will say it.

If Enda carries through with this he gets my vote in the next election

This is actually the biggest crock of sh*the I've read on here in a long time.

Surely you cannot be serious here

shruikan2553 · 21-10-2013 09:33PM

jester77 wrote: »

The German system is a lot fairer when you are suddenly unemployed, it pays around 66% of your previous years salary for 12 months. This means that you don't suddenly fall into a situation where you can't pay your bills as any properly functioning household can easily live from 66%.

It also does't reward long term unemployment, unlike the Irish system. Once the 12 months are up and you are still unemployed then you have to liquidate assets in order to get further assistance. So if you have a big car, or 2 small cars, or a larger house than deemed necessary, etc. then these will all need to be sold off and only then will you get further assistance once you have used up the proceeds.

And even then you don't get anything like the handouts in Ireland. They will also set you up with work, and if you refuse to take the job your benefits are reduced until you are eventually left on the street.

I'm all for this kind of system but the 2 arguments against this are that families will be homeless (which is just helen lovejoy crap) and that they will turn to crime and end up costing us more. Are the german police just not the kind that take any ****? Could see harsh sentences make people less likely turn to crime and less people being on the less generous dole.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-10-2013 09:35PM

jank wrote: »

From what I hear Germany has it right. Welfare payments in Ireland are one of the highest in the world, not something that is sustainable given that we are broke and borrowing 1 Billion a month to pay the bills. Labour as usual blocking reform.

In Germany, they get 350 a month plus rent/bills (as far as I know). They also get free local transport. In real terms in Berlin, this is probably higher.

That said, you only sign on for 5 months at a time. Afte that, they automatically expire and you have to repply. Also, the jobcenter/welfare center are handled by the same people, so they can better gauge our efforts at looking for work.

creep · 21-10-2013 09:38PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

There's literally none

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-10-2013 09:45PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

Ya haven't really researched that one, have you?

maguic24 · 21-10-2013 09:46PM

creep wrote: »

There's literally none

I thought the same when I graduated last year, but there are jobs out there, you just have to look hard enough. I have a folder in my emails dedicated to job rejections and PFO emails...there are currently 117 emails in that folder and that's not even all of them. If you want a job badly enough, you will find one, guaranteed. I did.

murphaph · 21-10-2013 09:46PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In Germany, they get 350 a month plus rent/bills (as far as I know). They also get free local transport. In real terms in Berlin, this is probably higher.

That said, you only sign on for 5 months at a time. Afte that, they automatically expire and you have to repply. Also, the jobcenter/welfare center are handled by the same people, so they can better gauge our efforts at looking for work.

In Berlin at least it's not free local public transport. Hartz IV recipients must pay €36 for a monthly pass. That's half the normal price.

SCOOP 64 · 21-10-2013 09:47PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

creep wrote: »

There's literally none

Wasn't that sarcasm ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-10-2013 09:49PM

murphaph wrote: »

In Berlin at least it's not free local public transport. Hartz IV recipients must pay €36 for a monthly pass. That's half the normal price.

Fair enough, I stand corrected if so. But 36 euro for fully integrated public trasnport for a full month is still a bloody good deal.

downonthefarm · 21-10-2013 09:50PM

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Wasn't that sarcasm ?

sorry it doesnt carry too well over tinternet

Richard Hillman · 21-10-2013 09:54PM

No matter what you think about Welfare in Ireland, it cannot be denied that there is a welfare culture amongst a very sizable portion of the nation. Anybody from a working class background knows or are related to many people who have accepted welfare as their life.

People and certain politicians can smokescreen all they like. Everybody knows that we are not talking about Joe the builder that cant get any work anymore or Mary the customer service rep who's job got outsourced to India. We are talking about the "Hope ur Ok Hun"s of this world, who despite being a facebook parody, is a reality to many people both in a male and female format.

The truly sad thing is that they set such low standards for their kids that they continue as another Welfare Generation.

stateofflux · 21-10-2013 09:55PM

my granda was convinced that announcing "anyone that does not have a job by monday morning will be shot" will bring the unemployment rate to zero overnight. ...

downonthefarm · 21-10-2013 09:55PM

when times were good the same people were still on the scratcher,

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-10-2013 10:03PM

stateofflux wrote: »

my granda was convinced that announcing "anyone that does not have a job by monday morning will be shot" will bring the unemployment rate to zero overnight. ...

Interesting. What were his opinions on creating 100% employment?

who_ru · 21-10-2013 10:25PM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The banks, NAMA, etc only account for a small portion of Ireland's debt.

i wouldn't regard 64 billion as a small portion of anything, some estimates indicate a higher cost of 70+ billion euro.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bank-bailout-cost-of-73bn-manageable-says-esri-26649376.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70bn-the-total-cost-to-the-taxpayer-of-the-bank-bailout-but-bondholders-will-pay-nothing-150015.html

woodoo · 21-10-2013 10:53PM

I think it has finally dawned on the government that job creation alone will not be enough to get some people of welfare and back to work. They must simultaneously make a life on benefits more difficult and less of an easy ride. They see thousands of people still coming into Ireland to work yet some of the people here are not willing to take up these same jobs. Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 21-10-2013 10:56PM

woodoo wrote: »

I think it has finally dawned on the government that job creation alone will not be enough to get some people of welfare and back to work. They must simultaneously make a life on benefits more difficult and less of an easy ride. They see thousands of people still coming into Ireland to work yet some of the people here are not willing to take up these same jobs. Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

Hang on - aren't you massively anti-immigration...?

SCOOP 64 · 21-10-2013 11:01PM

woodoo wrote: »

Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

But these are all internships now, not full time permanant work.

Richard Hillman · 21-10-2013 11:51PM

woodoo wrote: »

I think it has finally dawned on the government that job creation alone will not be enough to get some people of welfare and back to work. They must simultaneously make a life on benefits more difficult and less of an easy ride. They see thousands of people still coming into Ireland to work yet some of the people here are not willing to take up these same jobs. Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

I agree with what you are saying but a lot of the welfare classes are simply not employable in the services industry. There are not many people that would take a chance on somebody that seems a bit "rough". I am not talking necessarily about accents, but demeanour, politeness and general people skills.

I have spent a fair bit of time on the dole queue in my life. A lot of the "characters" down there wouldn't be touched with a barge pole. I think we need a real shift in culture of what is acceptable in society as people. There are a lot of people in society that need an education in how to act like a normal citizen.

And as I said in my previous post, it is generational. For every obnoxious woman effing and blinding at her kids whilst they run riot on a bus, those children are going to end up just like her. I seen a prime example of this last week. It is a shameless generation of people.

The_Honeybadger · 21-10-2013 11:57PM

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

First Ive heard about the gateway scheme, how does it work out at €425 a week, just for one parent claiming other not working?
Genuine queston, just had a quick look it, didn't see these figures?

It's not a flat rate It is based on your current entitlements, a married person with dependants may well get 400 plus, while a single person will get the basic rate of JA plus a small top up to cover travel and other expenses.

woodoo · 21-10-2013 11:58PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Hang on - aren't you massively anti-immigration...?

No not anti immigration, i'm anti mass immigration. I think we need to control the numbers a bit tighter. In my post above i'm saying that people should be taken off the dole queue to fill these jobs rather than have new people coming in to fill them.

Big Mouth · 22-10-2013 12:00AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No matter what you think about Welfare in Ireland, it cannot be denied that there is a welfare culture amongst a very sizable portion of the nation. Anybody from a working class background knows or are related to many people who have accepted welfare as their life.

People and certain politicians can smokescreen all they like. Everybody knows that we are not talking about Joe the builder that cant get any work anymore or Mary the customer service rep who's job got outsourced to India. We are talking about the "Hope ur Ok Hun"s of this world, who despite being a facebook parody, is a reality to many people both in a male and female format.

The truly sad thing is that they set such low standards for their kids that they continue as another Welfare Generation.

Can't mention that around here

. The German system sounds very good as expected. Our main problem is the welfare trap of people being afraid to take temporary or part time employment.

God love people who are on the dole and desperate to work as that must be a hard situation, however there are so many in the comfort zone of welfare. I'm involved in a company trying to hire seasonal staff for retail and we cannot fill the positions (our requirements are for the person to have some enthusiasm, common sense and ability to work weekends).

Fair enough its only temporary work so not that appealing but when the odd person we can persuade to take up the work is asked have you any friends or family who might like to work here the answer is always NO, too much effort to sort out dole stuff

Slightly off topic but an English colleague of mine remarked that Irish people are always very quick to tell you what they CAN'T do whereas in England you will get people who will work 12 hours a day 7 days a week over Christmas for 6 quid an hour (I'm not saying anyone is asked to work remotely those kind of hours just that in the UK they WANT to keep grafting , earning and are happy to get the 6 quid an hour)

I believe our system holds back peoples potential as if people were pushed to work that bit more then they might get involved and learn an industry and excel in the company or go on to do their own thing, nothing beats experience in life.

The_Honeybadger · 22-10-2013 12:04AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying but a lot of the welfare classes are simply not employable in the services industry. There are not many people that would take a chance on somebody that seems a bit "rough". I am not talking necessarily about accents, but demeanour, politeness and general people skills.

I have spent a fair bit of time on the dole queue in my life. A lot of the "characters" down there wouldn't be touched with a barge pole. I think we need a real shift in culture of what is acceptable in society as people. There are a lot of people in society that need an education in how to act like a normal citizen.

And as I said in my previous post, it is generational. For every obnoxious woman effing and blinding at her kids whilst they run riot on a bus, those children are going to end up just like her. I seen a prime example of this last week. It is a shameless generation of people.

Sadly I agree with a lot of this. It is a massive challenge to upskill those that lack the basic social skills required to hold down even the most menial positions. Many of the people you are referring to will never work again realistically, even if we get close to full employment in the future.

Kenny declares war on welfare culture

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