Questions for Greenkeepers?

Fescue · 20-10-2013 9:55am #1

As a member of the Greenkeeping profession, I have always felt a divide exists between the golfing community and us as turfgrass managers.

I wonder would it be a useful resource to have a thread here where golfers can ask some questions and hopefully get some clarity from those of us working in the industry?

I am sure there are a number of posters here from the greenkeeping profession who could answer some of your concerns. Likewise it would be a useful exercise for greenkeepers to get a golfers perspective on what we do and if we can do it better.

Just a thought.

Ally McIntosh · 20-10-2013 10:21am

I think that would be an excellent idea.

Maybe you can explain to all the different grasses used on Irish courses and what each means to playability, appearance and maintenance labour and cost.

It would also do well that people get a better understanding of seasonal conditioning so they might not be so judgmental based on one visit.

Thank you,
Ally

P.S. good choice of user name.

Kevinmarkham · 20-10-2013 10:54am

Fescue wrote: »

As a member of the Greenkeeping profession, I have always felt a divide exists between the golfing community and us as turfgrass managers.

I wonder would it be a useful resource to have a thread here where golfers can ask some questions and hopefully get some clarity from those of us working in the industry?

I am sure there are a number of posters here from the greenkeeping profession who could answer some of your concerns. Likewise it would be a useful exercise for greenkeepers to get a golfers perspective on what we do and if we can do it better.

Just a thought.

As Ally says, an excellent idea...

One of the complaints I hear all the time is about poleforking/hollow-tining. Perhaps it would be good to explain how many times a year this is done and why particular times are chosen. Sometimes you guys get lucky with the weather and sometimes you don't, and I don't think a lot of day-to-day golfers appreciate the importance of that.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 11:17am

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

I think that would be an excellent idea.

Maybe you can explain to all the different grasses used on Irish courses and what each means to playability, appearance and maintenance labour and cost.

It would also do well that people get a better understanding of seasonal conditioning so they might not be so judgmental based on one visit.

Thank you,
Ally

P.S. good choice of user name.

You're a hard task master Ally. I'm sure you have plenty of insight you can add also.

If we are talking about grasses then it is probably best to first talk about the grass that dominates the majority of our courses and in this instance the ones that dominate our putting surfaces.

Poa annua/Annual Meadow Grass

This grass is an opportunistic little bugger that will grow almost anywhere it finds an opening. The climate we have here in Ireland is ideal for Poa annuna.

Well managed Poa can produce excellent putting surfaces. It can be mown at very low heights of cut which obviously produces fast putting surfaces during the playing season.

The biggest cause of concern to playability is its ability to produce seed. The production of seed causes uneven playing surfaces and it can be very difficult control. Unlike most other grass species, Poa can produce seed even while being cut very low. It can also produce seed all year round.

Its a very high maintenance grass that requires a lot of water, fertiliser and mechanical work to keep surfaces at their best. It produces a lot of thatch and this usually requires hollow tining once or twice a year. Perhaps scarification in extreme cases.

The other problem with Poa annua is that as a turfgrass plant it susceptible to so many problems, especially during the winter months. In particular its prone to diseases such as fusarium, which in winter can cause scarring as there is less recovery from growth.

I have not worked on a course with Poa as the dominant grass species so perhaps others may be able to shed a little more light on it than me.

The Finer Grasses

I am going to put a number of the bent grasses and fescue grasses into this category. Though not the creeping bentgrass varieties imported from America.

The finer grasses such as fescue and browntop bent require less water, fertiliser, mechanical maintenance than Poa annua. They are less susceptible to disease, drought and wear.

They produce better year round playing surfaces as a result and are a very desirable plant from a greenkeepers perspective. They can be mown at greater heights than poa without any loss of speed.

Typically they thrive in less fertile environments such as links land. Hence why the game evolved in these coastal areas.

I hope that gives a little insight into the types of grasses we find in Ireland.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 11:43am

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

As Ally says, an excellent idea...

One of the complaints I hear all the time is about poleforking/hollow-tining. Perhaps it would be good to explain how many times a year this is done and why particular times are chosen. Sometimes you guys get lucky with the weather and sometimes you don't, and I don't think a lot of day-to-day golfers appreciate the importance of that.

Hollow tining is done for two reasons Kevin. The first is to relieve compaction. Compaction occurs on golf greens due to play and maintenance. The roots of grasses need both oxygen and water to keep the plant healthy. Over the course of the season the greens become more and more compacted resulting in a lack of available oxygen to the roots.

If you look at the above picture you'll see that the grass plant begins to put down deeper roots in preparation for the winter in August. This is obviously the ideal time to increase the available oxygen in the soil to help in this process. This is why Hollow coring is often done at this time of year or slightly later. If you can August is the ideal time to hollow tine from a greenkeepers perspective as this gives ample time for the greens to recover from the process and recover quickly. I know this isn't always possible a and as a result the later you leave it the greater the risk of cold weather inhibiting recovery.

Hollow tining in Spring (March) relieves the compaction created during the wetter winter months and stimulates the growth and recovery from disease and wear during this time.

The addition of sand not only fills the hollows it also helps improve the profile of the rootzone by aiding drainage. It also provides a medium for the roots to grow in.

The other reason hollow tining is done is to remove thatch. Thatch builds up from grass clippings and dead roots etc. This thatch can retain water resulting in spongy surfaces prone to disease.

The other means of reducing thatch is to topdress it regularly during the playing season. This dilutes the thatch therefore reducing its build up. Topdressing is the best way of keeping greens firm and free draining and should be done regularly. It also keeps surfaces smooth and even.

slave1 · 20-10-2013 12:29pm

I played the K Club Smurfit course yesterday and one of the greens had two inch circles/squares punched holes scattered across one segment of the green, one of the lads I was playing with said it was to do with drainage.
Any comments?

PS Great thread idea and nice user ID...

Fescue · 20-10-2013 12:41pm

slave1 wrote: »

I played the K Club Smurfit course yesterday and one of the greens had two inch circles/squares punched holes scattered across one segment of the green, one of the lads I was playing with said it was to do with drainage.
Any comments?

PS Great thread idea and nice user ID...

Your playing partner is most probably right. That section of the green might be holding water, noticeably during the wet weather this week and may have been vertidrained/solid tined using large diameter tines punched deep into the profile to help alleviate this.

Again this is an instance where compaction most likely has reduced the ability of the rootzone to drain freely and caused water logging. If its not relieved you can get anaerobic conditions developing which can cause black layer, a condition which will ultimately destroy that section on the green.

fred funk }{ · 20-10-2013 1:04pm

What are the three worst things us golfers do on the course that drives you mad?

Fescue · 20-10-2013 1:28pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

What are the three worst things us golfers do on the course that drives you mad?

I don't think there is anything that drives me mad as such. There is perhaps one or two things golfers could be aware of that might be beneficial to both sides.

Firstly, be a little bit more patient with greenkeepers performing maintenance, For instance, most golfers have no problem waiting for a minute or two for the group ahead to leave the green. Or waiting on the tee for the group ahead to play their second shot. The average round takes 4 hours, whats a few minutes.

I've been on greens while balls have whizzed by me. I would not like to get hit by a golf ball and I doubt any golfer wants to see another human being covered in blood as a result of their impatience.

In my opinion staff should always have the right of way and the discretion to let you play through. This prevents the chance of injury. Showing this kind of courtesy will most likely end up with you being let through quickly anyway.

The other obvious one is having a better understanding of the maintenance procedures we carry out. All of these are done with the intention of improving your course and keeping it in the best condition possible for you. That means the course will not always be at its peak so you should just accept that as part of the process and enjoy it anyway.

fred funk }{ · 20-10-2013 1:37pm

Thanks for that.

Another question if you don't mind.

How successful is the process of golfers replacing divots, as in, how many divots adhere back into the ground.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 1:45pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Another question if you don't mind.

How successful is the process of golfers replacing divots, as in, how many divots adhere back into the ground.

Thats a very good question. Its one I don't have a definitive answer for but if you were to ask my opinion I would say the percentage is probably quite low. Less than half I would guess. I am open to correction on this though.

Its probably just good etiquette to replace them.

What would you describe as the main things that irritate you as a golfer about greenkeepers?

bigtimecharlie · 20-10-2013 1:46pm

Great post.

I have been watching youtube video's relating to course maintenance.

Any video's that you could recommend?

GreeBo · 20-10-2013 1:53pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Thanks for that.

Another question if you don't mind.

How successful is the process of golfers replacing divots, as in, how many divots adhere back into the ground.

I think this is as much to do with not having another golfer play out of a hole as it is the divot growing back.

We get a bag of sand/seed mix on the first to cover divots or fill in holes if the divot is no more. I think this is more successful than divots alone.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 1:53pm

bigtimecharlie wrote: »

Great post.

I have been watching youtube video's relating to course maintenance.

Any video's that you could recommend?

http://www.usga.org/CourseCareLanding.aspx?id=21474846413

Great video here on aeration. I think if you look through the site there might be some other good videos.

fred funk }{ · 20-10-2013 2:01pm

Fescue wrote: »

Thats a very good question. Its one I don't have a definitive answer for but if you were to ask my opinion I would say the percentage is probably quite low. Less than half I would guess. I am open to correction on this though.

Its probably just good etiquette to replace them.

What would you describe as the main things that irritate you as a golfer about greenkeepers?

None really. I have a lot of respect for you guys. My experience with GK's has always been good and you guys will always give a quick wave when passing.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 2:14pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

None really. I have a lot of respect for you guys. My experience with GK's has always been good and you guys will always give a quick wave when passing.

Thats good to hear. Most of us are golfers anyway and experience things from a golfers perspective regularly.

I haven't encountered many golfers over the years who aren't polite, friendly and patient. As with most walks of life there are a small few who give the rest a bad name.

I'm not trying to set myself up here as an authority either, if I can answer a few questions you guys have I will do. Hopefully there are some other greenkeepers on boards who can contribute to the discussion.

The one thing the greenkeeping industry seeks is some recognition and respect for the work they do. It is a profession that has more and more highly qualified people with good groundings in the science of turfgrass management. In the last 30 years the standard of courses have sky rocketed and so too have expectation levels.

Back in 1977, the year of Tom Watson’s first Masters victory, the U.S. Golf Association measured the greens at Augusta National and found them to average 7.9 on the prototype Stimpmeter then in use. Not only were the greens much slower back then but they also varied dramatically from one to the next, with the par-3 12th hole measuring only 6.3 and the sixth green, also a par 3, topping out at 9.5. Arguably, it took more skill back then to adjust to such different putting surfaces. This week, regardless of average speed, the variance across the entire golf course will be no more than plus/minus 3 inches.

SnowDrifts · 20-10-2013 8:34pm

GreeBo wrote: »

I think this is as much to do with not having another golfer play out of a hole as it is the divot growing back.

We get a bag of sand/seed mix on the first to cover divots or fill in holes if the divot is no more. I think this is more successful than divots alone.

Think this is better practice. Did greenkeeping for a few years to fund college back in the day- and when cutting fairways there was always a lot of miss-replaced divots that would just get ripped up by the mower.

A.Partridge · 20-10-2013 9:01pm

Great thread.

Question - what is scarification and how does it help greens?

dan_ep82 · 20-10-2013 9:37pm

There was a thread the other day on smoking and one thing that was brought up was throwing butts on the course, do you come across it often, or any other types of rubbish?

Whats the biggest benefits of being a greenkeeper and a golfer?

fred funk }{ · 20-10-2013 9:54pm

What would be the typical cutting routine for the greens and fairways during the playing season?

Fescue · 20-10-2013 10:26pm

A.Partridge wrote: »

Great thread.

Question - what is scarification and how does it help greens?

Scarification is the use of a machine that cuts vertically into the playing surface and removes a lot of thatch that has built up over a period of time. Its obviously very aggressive but is the most effective way of removing large quantities of thatch from the profile.

The removal of thatch improves the firmness and trueness of greens, helps prevent disease and generally improves the health of the sward.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 10:34pm

dan_ep82 wrote: »

There was a thread the other day on smoking and one thing that was brought up was throwing butts on the course, do you come across it often, or any other types of rubbish?

Whats the biggest benefits of being a greenkeeper and a golfer?

Rubbish is an something we do come across regualarly but I wouldn't say its a widespread problem. Most golfers are quite responsible. Although those who shove rubbish into a bush should hold their head in shame!

Benefits of being both a greenkeeper and a golfer? Hard to quantify really. I guess you do have a better insight. From both perspectives. Though I find after spending a week on the course, the appetite to play golf on your time off is less. Bit of a busmans holiday.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 10:39pm

fred funk }{ wrote: »

What would be the typical cutting routine for the greens and fairways during the playing season?

Typically greens are cut daily. This might not always be possible on weekends on courses with a tight budget. Greens are often rolled/ironed for competitions.

The cutting of fairways depends on the type of grasses and the use of plant growth regulators. For example on a links course using PGR's fairways may be cut fortnightly!

On a parkland setting they may be cut 3 times a week or perhaps as little as once a week if PGRs are used, perhaps twice.

John Divney · 20-10-2013 10:42pm

Do you think players need a pitchmark replacing lesson?

Way too many leave permanent bald spots, don't push the mound down carefully and keep the grass alive.

Fescue · 20-10-2013 10:52pm

John Divney wrote: »

Do you think players need a pitchmark replacing lesson?

Way too many leave permanent bald spots, don't push the mound down carefully and keep the grass alive.

We all need to learn how to fix a pitch mark correctly and more importantly stick to the method every time.

denishurley · 21-10-2013 12:12am

On pitchmarks, how easy/hard is it to fix the ones that haven't been repaired immediately? I can never understand why so many people don't do it, it's a small price to pay for a good shot

Anatom · 21-10-2013 10:42am

Excellent thread Fescue.

In your opinion, if we take a typical parkland golf club which might be facing some financial difficulty, and therefore need to reduce its greenkeeping budget, where can they save the most money without sacrificing the quality of their product too much?

Also (and this sounds like a press conference and I'm getting in a second question here before the moderator wrenches the microphone away and gives it to someone else!!), can you talk us through a typical greenkeeper's day, say at this time of year? Or is there any such thing as a "typical" day at all?

Webbs · 21-10-2013 11:53am

Anatom wrote: »

Excellent thread Fescue.

can you talk us through a typical greenkeeper's day, say at this time of year? Or is there any such thing as a "typical" day at all?

Agree is great to see someone on here to inform us as to where our preconceived ideas are unobtainable or just plain wrong.

I would perhaps stretch the day to a typical week during the busy months (April to Sept) if possible?

what would a typical weekly plan be (fairways cutting, green cutting etc)? Is it all about getting the course ready for the weekend comps etc.

slave1 · 21-10-2013 1:22pm

Fescue wrote: »

We all need to learn how to fix a pitch mark correctly and more importantly stick to the method every time.

Demonstrating ignorance here but that is the way I fixed pitch marks until I read a massive sign in Druid's Glen which outlined lifting the surface up which is contrary to your advice?

josie19 · 21-10-2013 2:03pm

GreeBo · 21-10-2013 2:22pm

slave1 wrote: »

Demonstrating ignorance here but that is the way I fixed pitch marks until I read a massive sign in Druid's Glen which outlined lifting the surface up which is contrary to your advice?

lifting it up leaves a gap underneath and it will die, then you get those mud posts you see.

a pitchmark is formed by the ball compressing the soil/grass together, in the direction the ball was flying (the ball rarely drops straight down)
so to fix it you dig in and pull/push it back towards where you hit the ball from.

It might not look immediately as good as one thats "lifted" up, but in a couple of days it will be fine whereas the lifted one will be dead.

Fescue · 21-10-2013 6:11pm

denishurley wrote: »

On pitchmarks, how easy/hard is it to fix the ones that haven't been repaired immediately? I can never understand why so many people don't do it, it's a small price to pay for a good shot

An unrepaired pitch mark takes a long time to recover, even longer when the growing season is over. These scars left behind also offer an opportunity for weeds to infiltrate the putting surface.

If any of you are interested, the anatomy of the pitch mark left by a golf ball can also indicate the how well your greens are being managed.

See below.

http://www.usga.org/turf/green_section_record/2008/sep_oct/pitch_mark.pdf

Fescue · 21-10-2013 6:25pm

Anatom wrote: »

Excellent thread Fescue.

In your opinion, if we take a typical parkland golf club which might be facing some financial difficulty, and therefore need to reduce its greenkeeping budget, where can they save the most money without sacrificing the quality of their product too much?

Also (and this sounds like a press conference and I'm getting in a second question here before the moderator wrenches the microphone away and gives it to someone else!!), can you talk us through a typical greenkeeper's day, say at this time of year? Or is there any such thing as a "typical" day at all?

Webbs wrote: »

Agree is great to see someone on here to inform us as to where our preconceived ideas are unobtainable or just plain wrong.

I would perhaps stretch the day to a typical week during the busy months (April to Sept) if possible?

what would a typical weekly plan be (fairways cutting, green cutting etc)? Is it all about getting the course ready for the weekend comps etc.

Thats a difficult one to answer in any detail as the days vary so much from one to another.

Typically during the growing season, the mornings will be about preparing the course for the days play. That usually entails course set up, mowing greens and raking bunkers. If greens need to be sprayed this is typically done in the morning to keep ahead of play. Most mowing events begin in the morning to keep ahead of play where possible.

The afternoons vary greatly but typically mowing is continued. Perhaps other maintenance events are carried out also. Much of this varies wildly from course to course so its impossible to be too specific. The great thing about greenkeeping is that no two days are usually the same.

The winter usually see a slow down in growth and the necessity and benefits of mowing frequently reduce. This usually allows time for renovation works to be carried out. Revetting bunkers, drainage works, tree surgery etc...This can be a great break from the monotony of mowing albeit the weather can be tough to bear.

Throughout all of this though the greenkeeping staff are always monitoring the course, indeed this is probably the most important aspect of greenkeeping. Identifying problems and rectifying them before any of you guys become aware of them at all.

Fescue · 21-10-2013 6:26pm

slave1 wrote: »

Demonstrating ignorance here but that is the way I fixed pitch marks until I read a massive sign in Druid's Glen which outlined lifting the surface up which is contrary to your advice?

I've seen that also. Ignore it!

FixdePitchmark · 21-10-2013 6:37pm

Fescue wrote: »

I've seen that also. Ignore it!

I did that for years and only got it right about 3 years ago - hence username.

I still see it done wrong by somebody - most times in a group. Particularly amongst casual golfers.

In fairness it is intuitive to pop up. But wrong.

Fescue · 21-10-2013 6:40pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I did that for years and only got it right about 3 years ago - hence username.

I still see it done wrong by somebody - most times in a group. Particularly amongst casual golfers.

In fairness it is intuitive to pop up. But wrong.

Yeah, agree completely, I did it this way when I started greenkeeping also.

Fescue · 21-10-2013 6:42pm

Anatom wrote: »

Excellent thread Fescue.

In your opinion, if we take a typical parkland golf club which might be facing some financial difficulty, and therefore need to reduce its greenkeeping budget, where can they save the most money without sacrificing the quality of their product too much?

Also (and this sounds like a press conference and I'm getting in a second question here before the moderator wrenches the microphone away and gives it to someone else!!), can you talk us through a typical greenkeeper's day, say at this time of year? Or is there any such thing as a "typical" day at all?

I'm just going to be honest here and say I can't answer that in any meaningful way.

It is so site specific, only your head greenkeeper will know how to balance that situation properly.

sydneybound · 21-10-2013 7:23pm

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.

When playing strandhill in the summer I was told by members that maintaining a links course is much easier and cheaper than maintaining a standard parkland course (not talking about an exclusive course like Druids Glen or Adare Manor here). They claimed the fairway and general grass growth is a lot slower thus meaning it needs to be cut less and reduces on staff hours. While they let the rough grow during the summer months which dies in the winter. I wasn't sure what to make about it myself but the course was in super nick.

So therefore is it cheaper and easier to maintain a links course rather than parkland?

Fescue · 21-10-2013 7:58pm

sydneybound wrote: »

Great thread, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.

When playing strandhill in the summer I was told by members that maintaining a links course is much easier and cheaper than maintaining a standard parkland course (not talking about an exclusive course like Druids Glen or Adare Manor here). They claimed the fairway and general grass growth is a lot slower thus meaning it needs to be cut less and reduces on staff hours. While they let the rough grow during the summer months which dies in the winter. I wasn't sure what to make about it myself but the course was in super nick.

So therefore is it cheaper and easier to maintain a links course rather than parkland?

There is an element of truth in what they say.

The grasses that dominate links courses are the finer grasses, fescue and bent. These grasses are slower growing than the coarser grasses found on most parklands. They are more drought and disease resistant. They require less fertiliser. They are ideal for golf course turf.

Rough is let grow during the summer but is cut, scarified, collected and brought away during the autumn, so when it grows again the following year it is more wispy and less dense.

That said, the staff numbers on your average links is probably higher than that of most parklands. The time saved is put into other maintenance procedures. Aeration, topdressing, returfing areas, bunker maintenance etc.

Is it easier and cheaper? It can be but often these well known links courses are maintained to a very high standard. Portmarnock for instance.

shane0007 · 21-10-2013 10:28pm

Hi Fescue, thank you for your contributions, they are excellent.

My question is about bunkers. Is it difficult to achieve great bunkers, difficult to maintain & expensive?
My home course is in the top 100, an excellent parkland course with terrific conditions, apart from the bunkers! Absolutely abysmal. Very little sand, rock hard & require fighter pilot precision to pick the ball out of them. Forget about thinking splash as the wedge would be likely to bounce back & hit you in the forehead!
So they are now talking about doing something with them this winter. Club is cash rich (but with short arms!) so what should we be expecting in your opinion?

GreeBo · 21-10-2013 10:30pm

shane0007 wrote: »

Hi Fescue, thank you for your contributions, they are excellent.

My question is about bunkers. Is it difficult to achieve great bunkers, difficult to maintain & expensive?
My home course is in the top 100, an excellent parkland course with terrific conditions, apart from the bunkers! Absolutely abysmal. Very little sand, rock hard & require fighter pilot precision to pick the ball out of them. Forget about thinking splash as the wedge would be likely to bounce back & hit you in the forehead!
So they are now talking about doing something with them this winter. Club is cash rich (but with short arms!) so what should we be expecting in your opinion?

When were they last redone?
Every ten years or so a bunker needs to be rebuilt. All the drainage will eventually fill up with the fine sand and get blocked, leading to flooding and compaction. There is only so much that raking can do.
So, if its been anywhere near ten years chances are they need to be totally redone, its natural, a bunker cant and wont last forever.

shane0007 · 21-10-2013 10:43pm

I've no idea. I'm only completing my 2nd year as a member there. I used to enjoy my bunker play until I joined there.
They all seem to be in the same terrible condition throughout the course.

Webbs · 22-10-2013 9:16am

shane0007 wrote: »

I've no idea. I'm only completing my 2nd year as a member there. I used to enjoy my bunker play until I joined there.
They all seem to be in the same terrible condition throughout the course.

Dont want to go off topic too much but there is an argument that a bunker is a hazard and as such you sow what you reap by being in them. As long as they arent dangerous (big rocks etc) and raked then we have to get on with it. Again a lot to be said for not watching sky sports!

First Up · 22-10-2013 9:38am

Great thread Fescue.

I'd welcome your comments on drainage, which I think is going to become a bigger and bigger issue as our winter weather is predicted to get wetter and wetter. There is huge variation between courses and I assume this is due to some combination of the terrain and the amount of artificial drainage installed.

There are courses that drain superbly well and courses that get mucky around October and stay that way until the following May. Of course any course will flood for a short time in a deluge but a good course will clear in a few hours, whereas a bad one will be closed for days.

What should we expect from a properly constructed and maintained parkland course? I see some people being very philosophical and accepting about bad course conditions but I really think they are selling themselves short. I think it can be done properly with the right investment.

soundsham · 22-10-2013 11:07am

where should a rake be placed, inside or outside a bunker ?

josie19 · 22-10-2013 12:31pm

soundsham wrote: »

where should a rake be placed, inside or outside a bunker ?

Not sure if that question is for a greenkeeper but from a player's perspective I think the rake should always be left in the middle of the bunker. Rakes left outside can interfere and stop balls going into bunkers and rakes left barely inside the bunker leave players with very difficult downhill lies. A rake in the middle of a bunker has little impact on the finishing position of the ball.

First Up · 22-10-2013 12:38pm

josie19 wrote: »

Not sure if that question is for a greenkeeper but from a player's perspective I think the rake should always be left in the middle of the bunker. Rakes left outside can interfere and stop balls going into bunkers and rakes left barely inside the bunker leave players with very difficult downhill lies. A rake in the middle of a bunker has little impact on the finishing position of the ball.

Agree, although the R & A apparently recommends they be left outside. Can't understand that - the rake is part of the bunker. However a rake left where it stops a ball rolling into a natural position is a real nuisance and another example of inconsiderate behaviour. Middle of the bunker every time and rake it after you!

Not a greenkeeper issue though.

Dbu · 22-10-2013 12:43pm

Good thread,
Question for ya,
Is it just my opinion or were greens in better condition when we were allowed to wear spikes in our shoes?
cheers

PARlance · 22-10-2013 12:51pm

josie19 wrote: »

A rake in the middle of a bunker has little impact on the finishing position of the ball.

First Up wrote: »

Middle of the bunker every time and rake it after you!

How do you get the rake into the middle of the bunker? Throw it in or walk out after placing it?
I am aware that in some small bunkers you could place it in the middle from outside the bunker but for the majority of bunkers in my place (and I would consider the bunkers to be smaller than average) you wouldn't be able to place it in the middle from the outside.

First Up · 22-10-2013 1:31pm

PARlance wrote: »

How do you get the rake into the middle of the bunker? Throw it in or walk out after placing it?
I am aware that in some small bunkers you could place it in the middle from outside the bunker but for the majority of bunkers in my place (and I would consider the bunkers to be smaller than average) you wouldn't be able to place it in the middle from the outside.

Anywhere that doesn't stop the ball rolling is OK with me.

soundsham · 22-10-2013 2:02pm

josie19 wrote: »

Not sure if that question is for a greenkeeper but from a player's perspective I think the rake should always be left in the middle of the bunker. Rakes left outside can interfere and stop balls going into bunkers and rakes left barely inside the bunker leave players with very difficult downhill lies. A rake in the middle of a bunker has little impact on the finishing position of the ball.

The question was for a green keeper
I thought that was the idea of this thread

Questions for Greenkeepers?

Comments