Who is the best modern day American president?

Rascasse · 19-10-2013 10:15PM

dark crystal wrote: »

JFK was both those things too....

And it was he that I voted for (due to him being the impetus for the moon landings). I expect he will lose out due to being ancient history to most on Boards.

pajor · 19-10-2013 10:15PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Face it, outside of his being attacked by a rabbit, what do people in Ireland know about the presidency of Jimmy Carter?

We get our American history from The Simpsons of course.

Quimby: I give you our 39th president!...Jimmy Carter!
Random Guy: Ahhh come on!
2nd Random Guy: He's history's greatest monster!

Cody Pomeray · 19-10-2013 10:15PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

For reasons unknown to me.

Has nobody ever heard of the Al Shifa Pharmaceutical Plant bombing?

Clinton was, at times, quite shockingly weak; you are correct.

But if like most women who knit, keep cats, and read boards on Saturday nights, you're on a hunt for "the perfect man", then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

"The perfect man" is a term as unknown to politics as it is to art, or indeed as it is to knitters of cat clothing. This is a reality we all have to face at some point in our lives.

Roanmore · 19-10-2013 10:19PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Clinton.

When I was growing up he was the symbol of an America that still represented the mottos of which Obama has only managed to make a blunder - hope, and equality and justice.

Yep a guy who executed a mentally handicapped man just so he wouldn't look weak to swing Republicans, best president ever, man of his convictions.
The guy would have bombed a camp full of refugee children if it got him votes.

The list is a list of really horrible people, I went for Carter as the least worst (none of the above was a choice), they were all puppets of the guys behind them (maybe except Nixon he was just crazy).

dtpc191991 · 19-10-2013 10:29PM

Honestly for me it would be a toss up between Reagan and Clinton. It is quite hard to choose, one oversaw huge economic prosperity the other helped negotiate the end of the Col War. I'm not a fan of Reagan he should not have interfered in central and South American conflicts in the manner that he did.

As for 20th Century Presidents in the wider sense FDR is head and shoulders above the rest. He took the US out of depression and to victory in WWII. As modern (c. 1900) go FDR would hands down smash the others out of the ball park.

cml387 · 19-10-2013 10:30PM

Jimmy Carter is head and shoulders above all the presidents in the poll (although of course the greatest ever was FDR).

He was dealt a cruel hand in the Iranian revolution and the economy but set up the Camp David peace process for the middle east. He is opposd to the death penalty and remains to this day a campaigner for human rights and disease eradication.

coolhull · 19-10-2013 10:31PM

Rascasse wrote: »

Only Clinton could win this poll, mostly due to two reasons.

1. Democrat
2. Oirish

Don't forget O'bama , from Offaly, born and bred :rolleyes:

dark crystal · 19-10-2013 10:33PM

Rascasse wrote: »

And it was he that I voted for (due to him being the impetus for the moon landings). I expect he will lose out due to being ancient history to most on Boards.

Yep, I voted for him too. Despite only holding office for three years, he managed to ease cold war tensions by negotiating the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty with the Soviet Union and Great Britain and he also created the Peace Corps.

He also made American history by drafting the Civil Rights Act (the bill passed a year after his death, despite much opposition from southern politicians) Which saw the beginning of the end of racial segregation in the US.

Almaviva · 19-10-2013 10:34PM

IvaBigWun wrote: »

I'll go with Clinton, he looked the part, spoke the part and his surname wasnt Bush. Job done.

Jeb not done.

dtpc191991 · 19-10-2013 10:38PM

cerastes wrote: »

If thats the case

then this guys answer is the right one

From that list, Id go with JFK, helped avert a nuclear war

Id go with FDR though,

JFK had alot more failures than successes e.g. Berlin, Bay of Pigs. Personally JFK took a huge gamble taking on Russia on that agressively at Cuba personally I am of the opinion that it was more Khrushchev seeing sense and backing down than Kennedy doing anything particularly special that averted nuclear war at Cuba.

Squirtle McTurtle · 19-10-2013 10:39PM

Martin Sheen, even though Morgan Freeman is black, Sheen edges it.

cerastes · 19-10-2013 10:45PM

dtpc191991 wrote: »

JFK had alot more failures than successes e.g. Berlin, Bay of Pigs. Personally JFK took a huge gamble taking on Russia on that agressively at Cuba personally I am of the opinion that it was more Khrushchev seeing sense and backing down than Kennedy doing anything particularly special that averted nuclear war at Cuba.

I understood he didnt listen to the hawks calling for a nuclear strike on the USSR, no doubt Krushchev played his part, but he wasn't a US president

Killer Wench · 19-10-2013 10:53PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have to say, looking at the list there, none of them struck me as being particularly 'great'. Maybe I just have a very tight definition of it. I suspect that a lot of the reasons people may think a certain President is the best is partially related to "how closely his philosophies married with their own", and partially also simply due to exposure. Face it, outside of his being attacked by a rabbit, what do people in Ireland know about the presidency of Jimmy Carter?

Of course, such polls have been done before. After a little hunting around, it seems that the consensus of historians has been that the best president of the list above is Lyndon Johnson, who at the time of my writing of this post, has received 0 votes at all from this august group, who probably can't get past the word 'Vietnam' and don't know of his other policies and successes.

NTM

Totally agree with this post. I find it ironic that the two Presidents who advanced the greatest policies on behalf of White and Black Americans were two known bigoted individuals - Lyndon B Johnson and Abraham Lincoln. Kennedy had taken interest in the Civil Rights movement when he was assassinated; LBJ, as a Southern Democrat, could have walked away, but instead, he became a true champion of the movement. He spear headed the Civil Rights Act 64 and the Voting Rights Act of 65. Behind closed doors, he referred to Blacks as "n*ggers" and he spoke snidely about Black leaders.

Bullseye · 19-10-2013 10:53PM

cml387 wrote: »

Jimmy Carter is head and shoulders above all the presidents in the poll (although of course the greatest ever was FDR).

He was dealt a cruel hand in the Iranian revolution and the economy but set up the Camp David peace process for the middle east. He is opposd to the death penalty and remains to this day a campaigner for human rights and disease eradication.

Ok so you like him because he agrees with your values basically.

dtpc191991 · 19-10-2013 10:59PM

cerastes wrote: »

I understood he didnt listen to the hawks calling for a nuclear strike on the USSR, no doubt Krushchev played his part, but he wasn't a US president

Indeed I would agree and rightly credit him for ignoring the Hawks. The point I was trying to make is that Kennedy often gets far too much credit in propular history due to Cuba and that even his role in the crisis' outcome is often overstated.

Plus to call him the greatest modern US president also ignores the fact that his decision to increase ground support to Diem was the final in a series of decisions that were directly reponsible for pinning LBJ into taking the US into the American-Vietnam War.

cml387 · 19-10-2013 10:59PM

Bullseye wrote: »

Ok so you like him because he agrees with your values basically.

Er..valuing human life?

Seaneh · 19-10-2013 11:01PM

Carter.

The only one who managed to not let lobbyists dictate his foreign policy and refuse to engage in pointless wars.

Roanmore · 19-10-2013 11:04PM

Bullseye wrote: »

Ok so you like him because he agrees with your values basically.

Besides the death penalty what do you disagree with?

dtpc191991 · 19-10-2013 11:07PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Totally agree with this post. I find it ironic that the two Presidents who advanced the greatest policies on behalf of White and Black Americans were two known bigoted individuals - Lyndon B Johnson and Abraham Lincoln. Kennedy had taken interest in the Civil Rights movement when he was assassinated; LBJ, as a Southern Democrat, could have walked away, but instead, he became a true champion of the movement. He spear headed the Civil Rights Act 64 and the Voting Rights Act of 65. Behind closed doors, he referred to Blacks as "n*ggers" and he spoke snidely about Black leaders.

Unfortunatley biggotry seems to be a staple of Black Civil Rights even Lincoln himself was highly racist by modern day standards and only emancipated for strategic millitary purposes and tried to delay doing so until he had a program in place to have all the former slaves shipped off back to Africa or too a new African colony mining nation in South America.

Cody Pomeray · 19-10-2013 11:07PM

Bullseye wrote: »

Ok so you like him because he agrees with your values basically.

as opposed to what..?

are we supposed to admire those who pursue policies that we find repugnant?

"I abhor Hitler but I respect his passion for his cause" kinda nonsense?

Son Of A Vidic · 19-10-2013 11:11PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The fact that clinton had pretty impressive economic and political successes (despite his own personal failures) is almost not even that relevant.

The one major blot on Clinton's CV was the lost opportunity. He had the chance to sort out Bin Laden and the rising threat of Al Qaeda years before 9/11. Unfortunately after Somalia, he lost his nerve and the political will to act decisively.

Manic Moran · 19-10-2013 11:16PM

Can someone explain the Obama vote? In comparison to, say, the Civil Rights Act, or thawing the Cold War, what has he done? ACA doesn't come close.

wretcheddomain · 19-10-2013 11:18PM

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Indeed I would agree and rightly credit him for ignoring the Hawks. The point I was trying to make is that Kennedy often gets far too much credit in propular history due to Cuba and that even his role in the crisis' outcome is often overstated.

Totally agree with this ~ much more credit should be given to Khrushchev and why anyone would praise JFK when it was he himself who persisted with the mad nuclear doctrine.

Roanmore · 19-10-2013 11:27PM

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Totally agree with this ~ much more credit should be given to Khrushchev and why anyone would praise JFK when it was he himself who persisted with the mad nuclear doctrine.

Khrushchev reached out to the US and when they went hardline it made him look weak in the USSR and was was subsequently replaced.
The Cold War went on a lot longer than it should have and made some of the guys in the OP look better than they should have.

Killer Wench · 19-10-2013 11:32PM

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Unfortunatley biggotry seems to be a staple of Black Civil Rights even Lincoln himself was highly racist by modern day standards and only emancipated for strategic millitary purposes and tried to delay doing so until he had a program in place to have all the former slaves shipped off back to Africa or too a new African colony mining nation in South America.

Which is what I briefly mentioned in my post. So...?

IvaBigWun · 20-10-2013 12:02AM

Ok, time to fess up. Which 6 people voted for George Bush Jr?

Skylinehead · 20-10-2013 12:28AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can someone explain the Obama vote? In comparison to, say, the Civil Rights Act, or thawing the Cold War, what has he done? ACA doesn't come close.

I'd be much, much more concerned about the votes for Bush than Obama. Obviously Obama's done nothing, but nothing is better than disaster.

SharpshooterTom · 20-10-2013 01:14AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can someone explain the Obama vote? In comparison to, say, the Civil Rights Act, or thawing the Cold War, what has he done? ACA doesn't come close.

Obama will go down as one of the greatest, not that I agree with that assertion, but a lot of media outlets, for whatever reason, regard him as one of the greatest. Its written in the script, very few will rank him outside the top 5, I guarentee you that by the time he leaves. It will be unheard of if he isn't.

When I read the BBC, MSNBC, Huffpost, Newsweek etc, there seems to be this idea that he's somehow the "21st century FDR" followed by lots of superlatives. I have absolutely no idea why, but the media in europe absolutely loves him, way more so than Clinton.

Also he's quite a fortunate president. For example, he was trying extend the 2011 Iraq withdrawl timeline (which Bush signed) and failed not because he wanted to get out of Iraq, but because the Iraqi government wouldn't grant US soliders immunity from Iraqi courts etc. So they left only because of that.

Same situation is threatening to happen in Afghanistan, Karzai isn't sure of granting the US immunity (Obama is looking for America to stay beyond 2014, till 2024 believe it or not), but they may reject and yet again America will pack up and leave.

Oh and look at that, Obama will brag that he's successfully ended two wars, and his nobel peace prize is now justified. The media will whip it up and declare him greater than Jesus. Even though he's was actually looking to extend both wars considerabley (i.e. by out Bushing Bush), but that will be ignored, and he's a peacemaker.

He's also fortunate in a way that's he had shite opposition, gifting him two elections, and is adored, baring one cable news station, by the worlds press.

Obama will go down as the greatest ever.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 20-10-2013 01:22AM

I believe Gearld Ford is the only President in history who was never elected on a Presidential ticket. He got Nixon's VP after Spiro Agnew had to resign over tax evasion claims, he then of course got the top job after Watergate, and lost the following election.

A rough and ready type, he famously once excused himself from an interview with a NY Times reporter in the White House gardens to go around a bit of shrubbage and take a piss.

wendell borton · 20-10-2013 01:37AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXvGKJF2XQU

Who is the best modern day American president?

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