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two days until US default deadline

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Comments

  • #122
    seanie_c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭seanie_c


    Piliger wrote: »
    No one imagined the size of the financial crisis thrust on us, and how weak the banks were because of how so many of them held US dependent instruments.

    Well, certainly nobody in the banking sector knew anyway, just like they can't see the next one approaching... :rolleyes:


  • #123
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    seanie_c wrote: »
    Well, certainly nobody in the banking sector knew anyway, just like they can't see the next one approaching... :rolleyes:

    Well that is anyone's guess. But it is certain that they are in better shape to weather a future storm ... as long as it doesn't come before we've all recovered from this one, that is :rolleyes:


  • #124
    seanie_c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭seanie_c


    Piliger wrote: »
    Well that is anyone's guess. But it is certain that they are in better shape to weather a future storm ... as long as it doesn't come before we've all recovered from this one, that is :rolleyes:

    All that's recovered are stock prices. some of which are a huge bubble now since the 2009 bailouts and endless QE. But obviously nobody could predict what's around the corner...gosh no.

    No doubt the same people will hold their hands up "we didn't know this would happen, we couldn't see this coming..." and you'll try to reenforce that message to the masses of gullible people you know don't follow this stuff closely enough.


  • #125
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    seanie_c wrote: »
    All that's recovered are stock prices. some of which are a huge bubble now since the 2009 bailouts and endless QE. But obviously nobody could predict what's around the corner...gosh no.

    No doubt the same people will hold their hands up "we didn't know this would happen, we couldn't see this coming..." and you'll try to reenforce that message to the masses of gullible people you know don't follow this stuff closely enough.

    Well some people always think 'someone' should have known .. whenever something bad happens, and then lashes out at those they think are an easy target. I find it a pointless, useless, uninformed and groundless reaction.


  • #126
    funt cucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭funt cucker


    How does one of the biggest economies default? I mean who does America owe the money to?

    Is the Fed is privately owned?

    Its shareholders are private banks. In fact, 100% of its shareholders are private banks. None of its stock is owned by the government.

    So the FED is a private "bank" that lends to the government at a percentage interest rate?

    Seems plausible to me.

    I don't see how the US could owe $15 Trillion dollars any other way, am I missing something?


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  • #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    funt cucker wrote: »
    How does one of the biggest economies default? I mean who does America owe the money to?

    Is the Fed is privately owned?

    Its shareholders are private banks. In fact, 100% of its shareholders are private banks. None of its stock is owned by the government.

    So the FED is a private "bank" that lends to the government at a percentage interest rate?

    Seems plausible to me.

    I don't see how the US could owe $15 Trillion dollars any other way, am I missing something?
    A lot of the creditors are foreign governments, the Chinese being the largest.


  • #128
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    funt cucker wrote: »
    How does one of the biggest economies default? I mean who does America owe the money to?

    Is the Fed is privately owned?

    Its shareholders are private banks. In fact, 100% of its shareholders are private banks. None of its stock is owned by the government.

    So the FED is a private "bank" that lends to the government at a percentage interest rate?

    Seems plausible to me.

    I don't see how the US could owe $15 Trillion dollars any other way, am I missing something?

    About a third is foreign owned, the rest is domestic


  • #129
    funt cucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭funt cucker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A lot of the creditors are foreign governments, the Chinese being the largest.

    So what you're saying is that the Chinese have America by the balls?


  • #130
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    funt cucker wrote: »
    So what you're saying is that the Chinese have America by the balls?
    Sort of, but it is more a dentist - patient relationship.


  • #131
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    funt cucker wrote: »
    How does one of the biggest economies default? I mean who does America owe the money to?

    Is the Fed is privately owned?

    Its shareholders are private banks. In fact, 100% of its shareholders are private banks. None of its stock is owned by the government.

    So the FED is a private "bank" that lends to the government at a percentage interest rate?

    Seems plausible to me.

    I don't see how the US could owe $15 Trillion dollars any other way, am I missing something?

    America owes money the same as Ireland does - because it spent and spends a lot more than it earns. So they have to borrow, the way we have borrowed. And an unhealthy chunk of that debt is now held by China.


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  • #132
    funt cucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭funt cucker


    Piliger wrote: »
    America owes money the same as Ireland does - because it spent and spends a lot more than it earns. So they have to borrow, the way we have borrowed. And an unhealthy chunk of that debt is now held by China.

    So America "the leader in fiat currency" sold it's loans to foreign governments?
    Who prints, the dollar and who benefits from these sales? Ireland doesn't print currency, the US and Israel are the only two places that the American dollar is printed.

    So "private" corporations, have "rented" the US economy to other "interests" in the form of government bonds?


  • #133
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    funt cucker wrote: »
    So America "the leader in fiat currency" sold it's loans to foreign governments?
    Who prints, the dollar and who benefits from these sales? Ireland doesn't print currency, the US and Israel are the only two places that the American dollar is printed.

    So "private" corporations, have "rented" the US economy to other "interests" in the form of government bonds?

    Most countries do this, they need to borrow the money from somewhere.


  • #134
    funt cucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭funt cucker


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Most countries do this, they need to borrow the money from somewhere.

    Yeah I get what you're saying, but can you see what I mean about the US defaulting on it's debts? It can only default if it's privately funded by a wealthy elite?

    It owes money to banks. Apparently standard and poors said the cost to the American economy was $24 billion dollars for the shutdown. That will have to be paid to it's creditors.

    Fiat currency at it's best.


  • #135
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    funt cucker wrote: »
    Yeah I get what you're saying, but can you see what I mean about the US defaulting on it's debts? It can only default if it's privately funded by a wealthy elite?

    The debt is owned by everything and everyone from pension funds, to military retiree funds, to banks, hospitals, state, governmental - then there are foreign bond holders.

    A default would be catastrophic for everyone, however it's very unlikely to happen.


  • #136
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    funt cucker wrote: »
    Yeah I get what you're saying, but can you see what I mean about the US defaulting on it's debts? It can only default if it's privately funded by a wealthy elite?

    It owes money to banks. Apparently standard and poors said the cost to the American economy was $24 billion dollars for the shutdown. That will have to be paid to it's creditors.

    Fiat currency at it's best.
    I am not intending to offend ... but your grasp of how this works is clearly faulty to an enormous extent. :) Something has got into your head about this 'private banks' thing, and whatever the F you mean by fiat currency .... :rolleyes:


  • #137
    seanie_c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭seanie_c


    Piliger wrote: »
    Well some people always think 'someone' should have known .. whenever something bad happens, and then lashes out at those they think are an easy target. I find it a pointless, useless, uninformed and groundless reaction.

    You think blaming bankers for a financial collapse is a "pointless, useless, uninformed and groundless reaction" which is very indicative of what you do for a living.

    There is another collapse approaching and it's the same people responsible as before. The same people living in cloud cuckoo land deluding themselves their job is complex. :)

    Economics isn't a science and never has been.


  • #138
    seanie_c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭seanie_c


    Piliger wrote: »
    I am not intending to offend ... but your grasp of how this works is clearly faulty to an enormous extent. :) Something has got into your head about this 'private banks' thing, and whatever the F you mean by fiat currency .... :rolleyes:

    Like I said, you're clearly a banker overstating your importance to the global economy when in reality an educated farmer would have more chance of survival than you.

    What the hell are you gonna do when people say "enough is enough" ?


  • #139
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    If you don't hate the bankers you are a banker.

    This seems like a worthwhile discussion, do go on.....


  • #140
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    seanie_c wrote: »
    You think blaming bankers for a financial collapse is a "pointless, useless, uninformed and groundless reaction" which is very indicative of what you do for a living.
    That's not what I wrote.
    There is another collapse approaching and it's the same people responsible as before. The same people living in cloud cuckoo land deluding themselves their job is complex. :)
    I doubt if you have any basis for that prediction. Just a wild speculative guess. Or some 'economist' somewhere says so.
    Economics isn't a science and never has been.
    Hence it cannot be predicted.


  • #141
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    seanie_c wrote: »
    Like I said, you're clearly a banker overstating your importance to the global economy when in reality an educated farmer would have more chance of survival than you.
    What a joke.
    What the hell are you gonna do when people say "enough is enough" ?
    Not what you do.


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