What beer are we drinking this week ?

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 01:22PM

drumswan wrote: »

The New Belgium stuff is really fantastic.

Most of New Belgium's beers are american style beers.

Their two most popular beers are Fat Tire and Ranger and they are both American styles.

drumswan · 17-10-2013 01:27PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Or you could equally say, the craft beer scene is rife with people hyping up certain beers and them having incredibly high scores on Ratebeer/Beeradvocate because only a few hundred people have rated them and have all rated them highly, then they get wider distribution and people are no longer impressed by the rarity of them so that reason for upmarking is gone and people rate them on their merits, not on hype.

That must explain Stone IPA so, its plummeted like a stone since its distribution has increased.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/stone-india-pale-ale-ipa/422/

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 01:35PM

drumswan wrote: »

That must explain Stone IPA so, its plummeted like a stone since its distribution has increased.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/stone-india-pale-ale-ipa/422/

Their distribution has been pretty high for years, I drank their beers in oregon and Georgia almost 4 years ago and I first heard about them from a Canadian about 7 years ago.

Lots of beers have high distribution and are over rated, rogue's range for example aren't great beers but have high scores. Mikkler's beers tend to have massive scores but besides a few I find them underwhelming. Even Sierra Nevada Torpedo has a very high BA and RB score, but it's not a great beer.

These super hoppy beers (Torpedo, Ruination, etc) having high scores is more to do with people thinking hoppy = awesome than it does with them being good beers.

Even Jackhammer is a 97 on ratebeer, and it's ****.
Why does it have a high score, because it's extremely bitter and people think that makes it "cool", it's total hop overkill, it's hoppy for hoppiness sake.

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 01:41PM

You could debate until the cows come home about something being over hyped. Generally it seems to be that a person calls a beer overhyped if they try it and they don’t like it. That doesn’t mean the beer is not nice, it just means that they don’t like it, it’s about taste after all, something that will always be subjective.

Another one people throw about is that they paid a lot of money for it and they didn’t like so therefore it’s over hyped or the brewery is just price gouging due to the hype. I’m not going to pretend to know the make up of a brewery’s cost to produce a beer but one thing that has always stuck in my head is a quote from one of the Brewdog blurbs I read somewhere. (ah found it!)

“The average monolithic lager is brewed with roughly 12 kilos of malted barley per barrel, the average craft ale (like a 4.5% pale ale) is brewed with around 25 kilos per barrel. At BrewDog, our average beer is made with over 40 kilos of malted barley per barrel. On average we use 25 times more hops as an industrial brewer to make one barrel of BrewDog beer. A lot more beer for just a little bit more money. We are selfish and make the beers we want to drink ourselves, regardless of the cost of the ingredient or how arduous the process is. Everything we do is to enhance the flavour of our beers and provide an encapsulating, awesome experience for the drinker.”

Now, using extra ingredients doesn’t always account for a better product but it certainly would be a contributory factor when it comes to a higher price.

Anyway, I’m waffling now. Don’t belief the hype! Yadda Yadda….

drumswan · 17-10-2013 01:45PM

Stone, Rogue, Mikkeller and Sierra Nevada getting the Seaneh treatment, haha, whos next? Poor JW Sweetmans got branded crap homebrew last week, much to everyone else on heres surprise - they thought they were enjoying the beer the poor fools!

irish_goat · 17-10-2013 01:50PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

“The average monolithic lager is brewed with roughly 12 kilos of malted barley per barrel, the average craft ale (like a 4.5% pale ale) is brewed with around 25 kilos per barrel. At BrewDog, our average beer is made with over 40 kilos of malted barley per barrel.

The average Brewdog beer is a lot stronger than 4.5% though. That's mainly where the difference comes from.

the beer revolu · 17-10-2013 01:53PM

I find Rogue and Mikeller beers almost always disappoint me.
The price and the hype tend to raise expectations only to be dashed by pretty ordinary beer.

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 01:53PM

Seaneh wrote: »

These super hoppy beers (Torpedo, Ruination, etc) having high scores is more to do with people thinking hoppy = awesome than it does with them being good beers.

Ah you can't say that, how do you know a person's reasoning behind rating a beer?

Seaneh wrote: »

Even Jackhammer is a 97 on ratebeer, and it's ****.
Why does it have a high score, because it's extremely bitter and people think that makes it "cool", it's total hop overkill, it's hoppy for hoppiness sake.

I didn't like Jackhammer either, but it doesn't make it a sh1te beer. Are you really suggesting that every single person that rated the beer is doing it just to be seen as cool?

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 01:55PM

irish_goat wrote: »

The average Brewdog beer is a lot stronger than 4.5% though. That's mainly where the difference comes from.

Malt is pricey, and the difference in malt needed to get a beer from 4.5 to even 5.5% is massive, high ABV beers are mad expensive to make.
I was told an equation that you use to tell how much malt you need to go from 3 to 10% abv and it was incremental and it difference between 3 and 4 wasn't huge but the further along you go, the more and more malt you need for smaller return, was a real eye opener.

Can't remember for the life of me with it was though.

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 01:58PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

I didn't like Jackhammer either, but it doesn't make it a sh1te beer. Are you really suggesting that every single person that rated the beer is doing it just to be seen as cool?

Maybe not, but I'd wager a lot of them are. Because they can "take the hops".

It's like when people go looking for chicken wings made with ghost chilli's and liquid capsaicin extract, they aren't doing it because they think it tastes good, they are doing it purely for appearance.

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 01:58PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Malt is pricey, and the difference in malt needed to get a beer from 4.5 to even 5.5% is massive, high ABV beers are mad expensive to make.
I was told an equation that you use to tell how much malt you need to go from 3 to 10% abv and it was incremental and it difference between 3 and 4 wasn't huge but the further along you go, the more and more malt you need for smaller return, was a real eye opener.

Can't remember for the life of me with it was though.

You can work it out on one of the online homebrew calculators.

drumswan · 17-10-2013 02:01PM

Seaneh wrote: »

It's like when people go looking for chicken wings made with ghost chilli's and liquid capsaicin extract, they aren't doing it because they think it tastes good, they are doing it purely for appearance.

How can you possibly know what other people think tastes good? Are you some kind of taste clairvoyant?

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:01PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

I find Rogue and Mikeller beers almost always disappoint me.
The price and the hype tend to raise expectations only to be dashed by pretty ordinary beer.

There are some Mikkeller beers I like, Green Gold is lovely for example.
But I've had some absolute stinkers like the Texas Ranger (which has a stupidly high score on rate beer as well), the chipotle completely overpowers everything else.

As for rogue, I'd struggle to think of any of their beers that actully impressed me. The Hazelnut brown was my favourite but I'd struggle to finish a pint because it gets so chemically sweet after a while.

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:02PM

drumswan wrote: »

How can you possibly know what other people think tastes good? Are you some kind of taste clairvoyant?

Yes.

irish_goat · 17-10-2013 02:02PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Malt is pricey, and the difference in malt needed to get a beer from 4.5 to even 5.5% is massive, high ABV beers are mad expensive to make.
I was told an equation that you use to tell how much malt you need to go from 3 to 10% abv and it was incremental and it difference between 3 and 4 wasn't huge but the further along you go, the more and more malt you need for smaller return, was a real eye opener.

Can't remember for the life of me with it was though.

Yeah but the point is that more alcohol = more malt. Brewdog are trying to make it seem like they use more malt because they care more about quality and are unwilling to compromise. Any other brewery which makes strong beer would use a similar amount of malt.

drumswan · 17-10-2013 02:04PM

irish_goat wrote: »

Yeah but the point is that more alcohol = more malt. Brewdog are trying to make it seem like they use more malt because they care more about quality and are unwilling to compromise. Any other brewery which makes strong beer would use a similar amount of malt.

Well the american macros have used adjuncts instead of malt, maybe thats what they are getting at

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:05PM

irish_goat wrote: »

Yeah but the point is that more alcohol = more malt. Brewdog are trying to make it seem like they use more malt because they care more about quality and are unwilling to compromise. Any other brewery which makes strong beer would use a similar amount of malt.

Oh ofcourse, I wasn't really trying to back up BrewDog's marketing spiel as anything important. It does justify the price being high, but doesn't mean it's going to be a good beer just because there is a lot of malt in it.

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 02:08PM

Seaneh wrote: »

There are some Mikkeller beers I like, Green Gold is lovely for example.
But I've had some absolute stinkers like the Texas Ranger (which has a stupidly high score on rate beer as well), the chipotle completely overpowers everything else.

Personally I thought the Green Gold was ok but the Texas Ranger was/is amazing. You're just being contrary to be seen as "cool".

drumswan · 17-10-2013 02:09PM

Seaneh wrote: »

But I've had some absolute stinkers like the Texas Ranger (which has a stupidly high score on rate beer as well), the chipotle completely overpowers everything else.

Texas Ranger is a cracker, its perfectly balanced IMO. As is Torpedo, I adore Magnum and Citra and LOTS of them. Rogue Double Chocolate Stout is world class.

Luckily the range of flavour in beer is broad enough to accommodate everyones tastes.

BeerNut · 17-10-2013 02:10PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

You're just being contrary to be seen as "cool".

Do I get to be seen as cool if I say I didn't like the Texas Ranger because there wasn't enough chilli?

irish_goat · 17-10-2013 02:11PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Oh ofcourse, I wasn't really trying to back up BrewDog's marketing spiel as anything important. It does justify the price being high, but doesn't mean it's going to be a good beer just because there is a lot of malt in it.

Was chatting about this last night with friends who just moved back from Scotland where they got pints of Punk for around £3.40-£3.80/€4.00-€4.50. It takes a serious jump in price when it gets to Ireland.

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 02:15PM

irish_goat wrote: »

Was chatting about this last night with friends who just moved back from Scotland where they got pints of Punk for around £3.40-£3.80/€4.00-€4.50. It takes a serious jump in price when it gets to Ireland.

Is it the same for the 'merkin beers too? You never really see them moaning about price on blogs/review sites, seems to be more of an Irish thing.

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:15PM

irish_goat wrote: »

Was chatting about this last night with friends who just moved back from Scotland where they got pints of Punk for around £3.40-£3.80/€4.00-€4.50. It takes a serious jump in price when it gets to Ireland.

Everything takes a serious jump when it gets to Ireland.

DPC and Punk cans were 4 for £5 in tesco and asda in the UK for a while there too.

drumswan · 17-10-2013 02:16PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is it the same for the 'merkin beers too? You never really see them moaning about price on blogs/review sites, seems to be more of an Irish thing.

True. If ratebeer was Irish 'price' would be an extra attribute of flavour

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:18PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is it the same for the 'merkin beers too? You never really see them moaning about price on blogs/review sites, seems to be more of an Irish thing.

as in, 'merkin beers in the UK?
Or in 'merka?

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 02:26PM

Seaneh wrote: »

as in, 'merkin beers in the UK?
Or in 'merka?

The latter

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:26PM

drumswan wrote: »

True. If ratebeer was Irish 'price' would be an extra attribute of flavour

If rogue beers beers where as expensive in the states as they are here, they wouldn't be half as well rated.

They are 7-9 dollars for a 6 pack in most place.

BaZmO* · 17-10-2013 02:27PM

Seaneh wrote: »

If rogue beers beers where as expensive in the states as they are here, they wouldn't be half as well rated.

They are 7-9 dollars for a 6 pack in most place.

So it's price you've got a problem with, not hype?

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:29PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

The latter

Most of the stuff we get here that costs €6-7 in a bar would be considerably cheaper in the US.
I'd not expect to pay more than $4.50 for a bottle of sierra nevada pale ale anywhere in the US.

Some are expensive, Rissuan River beers, some of the Deschutes limited editions, etc, you can run $10+ a bottle in places.

But most of them are about $2-3 in a store and $4-5 in a bar (in my experience).

There can be mad variances in prices from state to state though, as they all have different taxation and stuff.

Seaneh · 17-10-2013 02:34PM

BaZmO* wrote: »

So it's price you've got a problem with, not hype?

With rouge I just find them pretty average beers to be honest.
If they were cheaper, I'd but them more often, but I still wouldn't think they were any better.

Like I said, I don't mind paying more for a beer when it's a great beer, but for an average beer like say Dead Guy Ale, I'd rather spend less and drink a comparable or better Irish product like Metalman/O'Hara's Pale/Hophead/Full Sail/Kinsale etc.

I'll gladly pay €6.25 for a pint of Sierra Nevada Celebration, but I'd be loathe to pay that for a pint of rogue's Brutal IPA.

What beer are we drinking this week ?

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