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Burton: Garda checkpoints on estates to weed out welfare cheats

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Comments

  • #92
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    You're under no legal obligation to say a word to the inspector.

    You are obliged to answer the guard who will pass the info to the welfare officer. Do you work and pay taxes?


  • #93
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    The guard will ask,you tell the inspector to fuck off.Request a confidential conversation and bob's your uncle.

    And then the officer can request the info and the guard will pass it on.


  • #94
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You are obliged to answer the guard who will pass the info to the welfare officer. Do you work and pay taxes?

    You are not obliged to do anything in front of the inspector nor is the guard obliged to share information with the inspector if you request the information to remain confidential.

    I work and pay a stupid amount of tax.


  • #95
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    bumper234 wrote: »
    And then the officer can request the info and the guard will pass it on.

    No he can't.

    As in the guard cannot share the information.


  • #96
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭Yawns


    wexie wrote: »
    You'll have to forgive my ignorance I'm just a taxpaying wage slave but let me get this straight :

    It's possible to claim wellfare (using a PPS number) and work at the same time (presumably with an employer paying taxes etc. against your PPS number?)? (employers need a PPS number no? last time I dealt with the tax office I gave them my pps number and they knew who I worked for etc. etc.)

    Do the gob****es running the government not realise that nowadays what with computers and other magic schtuff there's a pretty simple solution to catch a good few of these guys out, without ever having to leave the door?

    Maybe somebody with a basic understanding of databases should go have a chat with them.

    You'd think so but there's also people working with their brother or sisters name and pps number while that sister or brother are out of the country. Have come across this situation from three different people in the last year.

    One of them being a 54 year old doing it and her sister having lived in England for the last 20 years. Asked what would happen if the sister came back and the answer I got was "well she'll be able to sign on and have the stamps for it" From what I could gather, the sister was unaware of this fraud and also has no plans on returning to live in Ireland.


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  • #97
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    You are not obliged to do anything in front of the inspector nor is the guard obliged to share information with the inspector if you request the information to remain confidential.

    I work and pay a stupid amount of tax.

    So why wouldn't you want people who are working , not paying ANY taxes and also getting YOUR tax money from the dole to be caught? Should we just let them get away with it? Or is this all about the fact that you may be inconveniencer for 3 minute s some morning?


  • #98
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    No he can't.

    As in the guard cannot share the information.

    I think you will find that he can.


  • #99
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    What a joke. Anyone have any ideas how these stops will pan out?

    Official: What's the name?

    Black economy worker (BEW). Bill Smith.

    Official: I see you're in receipt of a welfare payment..

    BEW: Yes..

    Off: Where are you off to?

    BEW: An interview and now I'm going to be late.

    Lol.


  • #100
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    No he can't.

    As in the guard cannot share the information.

    Will they have warrant cards?


  • #101
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    You are not obliged to do anything in front of the inspector nor is the guard obliged to share information with the inspector if you request the information to remain confidential.

    I work and pay a stupid amount of tax.

    I believe if you fail to co operate with an inspector at a check point your payment can be suspended ,and they can also obtain a warrant for your home
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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  • #102
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭Yawns


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I think you will find that he can.

    He can't. Unless the guard has reason to suspect you've committed an offence you don't even have to tell him if you are going to work or not. He can't assume you are signing on and then say he suspects you of working whilst signing either. He would need proof. You don't need to talk to the social worker at all if you don't like.


  • #103
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I think you will find that he can.

    The data protection act applies to AGS.


  • #104
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭Yawns


    Charlie Rock wrote: »
    What a joke. Anyone have any ideas how these stops will pan out?

    Official: What's the name?

    Black economy worker (BEW). Bill Smith.

    Official: I see you're in receipt of a welfare payment..

    BEW: Yes..

    Off: Where are you off to?

    BEW: An interview and now I'm going to be late.

    Lol.

    Ok on your way. By the way will you get a letter from that place today on headed paper, stating you were at an interview for them and drop into the office later for an interview. Bring said letter and banks statements for last 6 months please. Failure to do so could result in the closure of your claim.


  • #105
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    old hippy wrote: »
    Will they have warrant cards?

    Thought you had me on ignore?

    The guards will be on secondment to the dept of social protection and will be exchanging information with them for investigations.


  • #106
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    bumper234 wrote: »
    So why wouldn't you want people who are working , not paying ANY taxes and also getting YOUR tax money from the dole to be caught? Should we just let them get away with it? Or is this all about the fact that you may be inconveniencer for 3 minute s some morning?
    I wouldn't tell a person on the street my name,address,pps number and where i'm going to in the morning,why would i do any different for a public servant?

    bumper234 wrote: »
    I think you will find that he can.

    No he can't,it's like sharing your details to a guard confidentially and having him sharing that with a chugger if they ask.


  • #107
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Gatling wrote: »
    I believe if you fail to co operate with an inspector at a check point your payment can be suspended ,and they can also obtain a warrant for your home
    They have to get your details first.


  • #108
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    They have to get your details first.

    Car reg ,tax ,insurance
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #109
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Gatling wrote: »
    Car reg ,tax ,insurance

    The person driving the van is most likely not going to be the one claiming in fairness.

    Van reg-Company
    Tax-Company
    Insurance-Company

    If you're driving a car,they can't jump to conclusions on where you're going.


  • #110
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    The person driving the van is most likely not going to be the one claiming in fairness.

    Van reg-Company
    Tax-Company
    Insurance-Company

    If you're driving a car,they can't jump to conclusions on where you're going.

    As i said earlier they know who exactly there targeting ,its not a random thing ,its based off intelligence gathered by welfare and from people giving details of suspected bogus claimants
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #111
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Gatling wrote: »
    As i said earlier they know who exactly there targeting ,its just a random thing ,its based off intelligence gathered by welfare and from people giving details of suspected bogus claimants

    That would be the curtain twitchers. Really; if they themselves had nothing to hide they wouldn't have curtains, would they?


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  • #112
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Gatling wrote: »
    As i said earlier they know who exactly there targeting ,its not a random thing ,its based off intelligence gathered by welfare and from people giving details of suspected bogus claimants

    And how are they going to prove they have the right people or what they're up to exactly? hunches?


  • #113
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,723 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #114
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,723 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #115
    RedFormanFITA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭RedFormanFITA


    "And how are they going to prove they have the right people or what they're up to exactly? hunches?"

    It's done like everything else in this country, on the back of a brown envelope. Probably one Bertie had left over from the good oul day's, go on ya good thing Bertie.


  • #116
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Gatling wrote: »
    I believe if you fail to co operate with an inspector at a check point your payment can be suspended ,and they can also obtain a warrant for your home

    Get a warrant based on what? You have no obligation to cooperate with a social welfare inspector and a constitutional right not to incriminate yourself.


  • #117
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,085 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I was just speaking to one very depressed unemployed person earlier on who isn't doing anything wrong but they are now considering just not going outside anymore because of this!
    They're already totally embarrassed about not having a job and won't meet with anyone they know because of it and now think they're going to be harassed in the street...

    While I understand the need to track down fraud the way this was announced as 'check points in estates' has the ring of something from a fascist state demanding identity papers from random members of the public.


  • #118
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,723 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • #119
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Get a warrant based on what? You have no obligation to cooperate with a social welfare inspector and a constitutional right not to incriminate yourself.

    Suspected fraud I'd hazard to guess
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #120
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,723 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #121
    RustyNut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Gatling wrote: »
    Suspected fraud I'd hazard to guess

    A completely baseless suspicion.


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