calf rearing to beef

john p mc g · 10-10-2013 09:09PM #1

Just wondering do many of ye do it every year buying angus or hereford at few weeks of age and finishing them can it be profitable neighbour has a good few comin nxt year from bfr cows was thinking of takin a few off him

john p mc g · 10-10-2013 09:12PM

Just wondering do many of ye do it every year buying angus or hereford at few weeks of age and finishing them can it be profitable neighbour has a good few comin nxt year from bfr cows was thinking of takin a few off him

Zr105 · 10-10-2013 10:05PM

It can be a lot of work feeding them and a lot will say there not as hardy and can drop like flies,

If there definitly fro bfr you'd be gettin a decent startin point, we do a few angus and a few fresian bullocks here every year and there not to bad, they don't make as much money as the continentals when on the hook but may leave as much behind as the continentals when taking out cost of cow.

We find them grand have them off the milk before christmas and ready to go to grass as soon as weather takes up enough, generally round early febuary, then after that you can nearly forget about them there fairly hardy

john p mc g · 10-10-2013 10:59PM

Zr105 wrote: »

It can be a lot of work feeding them and a lot will say there not as hardy and can drop like flies,

If there definitly fro bfr you'd be gettin a decent startin point, we do a few angus and a few fresian bullocks here every year and there not to bad, they don't make as much money as the continentals when on the hook but may leave as much behind as the continentals when taking out cost of cow.

We find them grand have them off the milk before christmas and ready to go to grass as soon as weather takes up enough, generally round early febuary, then after that you can nearly forget about them there fairly hardy

Thanks for reply what age do you finish the friesans when do you squeeze them

Zr105 · 11-10-2013 12:23AM

We try to have the Friesians calves here before christmas, the earlier the better really, there squeezed when ever the weather starts to cool off a bit usually round august or so, and then we finish them at between 22-26 months of age depending when there born really. We've spring calving sucklers that calve January to April mainly, and the Friesians would be killed along side them when they (continentals) are at roughly the 22-24 months.
We don't mind takin a few angus after christmas as they tend to flesh a bit handier and in fact can get a little over fat if your not careful.

The Friesians will never really grade as well as continentals but thats there genetics, and no matter what you'll always end up with one big tall boney looking bugger that has a back bone that looks fit to split sticks on....

Farmer Pudsey · 11-10-2013 01:17AM

john p mc g wrote: »

Just wondering do many of ye do it every year buying angus or hereford at few weeks of age and finishing them can it be profitable neighbour has a good few comin nxt year from bfr cows was thinking of takin a few off him

It is like anything else in farming if you do it right there may be a bob in it. However you have to make sure you can either carry straight through to slaughter or make sure you sell as stores when prices are high, this applies to finishing as well.

Angus cattle can be hard to get into heavy weights but by trageting the high bonus's it can be profitable, most important thing is to get calf going well. Try to buy a bunch togeather as getting in calves in small group can give issues with Virus's and peunomia. However it can be tricky to look after 15-20 calves at one time as feeding morning and evening take up time.

Make sure to feed at grass all through the summer. For the first year keep on milk replacer until they are good and strong. Even only feeding 2L a day when they are 10 week will make it easy to watch for a sick calf. However if you have not done before start with 4-6 for next year. will somebody give you a hand that has experience with calves a parent, a relative or a neighbour. It is not rocket science but you cannot be running to the vet all the time either.

Sam Kade · 11-10-2013 09:41AM

Zr105 wrote: »

We try to have the Friesians calves here before christmas, the earlier the better really, there squeezed when ever the weather starts to cool off a bit usually round august or so, and then we finish them at between 22-26 months of age depending when there born really. We've spring calving sucklers that calve January to April mainly, and the Friesians would be killed along side them when they (continentals) are at roughly the 22-24 months.
We don't mind takin a few angus after christmas as they tend to flesh a bit handier and in fact can get a little over fat if your not careful.

The Friesians will never really grade as well as continentals but thats there genetics, and no matter what you'll always end up with one big tall boney looking bugger that has a back bone that looks fit to split sticks on....

Are they paying for themselves?

Sam Kade · 11-10-2013 09:52AM

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is like anything else in farming if you do it right there may be a bob in it. However you have to make sure you can either carry straight through to slaughter or make sure you sell as stores when prices are high, this applies to finishing as well.

Angus cattle can be hard to get into heavy weights but by trageting the high bonus's it can be profitable, most important thing is to get calf going well. Try to buy a bunch togeather as getting in calves in small group can give issues with Virus's and peunomia. However it can be tricky to look after 15-20 calves at one time as feeding morning and evening take up time.

Make sure to feed at grass all through the summer. For the first year keep on milk replacer until they are good and strong. Even only feeding 2L a day when they are 10 week will make it easy to watch for a sick calf. However if you have not done before start with 4-6 for next year. will somebody give you a hand that has experience with calves a parent, a relative or a neighbour. It is not rocket science but you cannot be running to the vet all the time either.

How much meal would you feed on grass for their first summer?

grazeaway · 11-10-2013 10:57AM

its very much down to the type of calf you buy, when you buy them and when they are fit for slaughter.

AA are smaller and hardier but can be finished earliermany around 18 months. so depending on went you get them you can winter them once and finish them off grass and nuts the followign year.

limo's and HF's can also be finhed a bit sooner. other conterinal and FR usually run teh 2 years.

what we have found when we used to double suckle FR's with the home limos was that the limos would always be in better shape buthe FR's woul dbe taller and heavyier but nowhere here the saem grade. Also a Fr bull will eat a lot more then small AA. while the FR might weight more then a limo or AA at teh same age his grade will be lower and soem espically the HO breed ones eat like a horse would dont but on any weight or muscle.

john p mc g · 11-10-2013 07:42PM

What weights would the friesan and angus finish at knowing when they would be finished is my biggest concern. Im ve started green cert course so might learn something at that

Farmer Pudsey · 11-10-2013 07:49PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

How much meal would you feed on grass for their first summer?

It is years since I did calves however looking back it was the one mistake all the talk was Grass was all they needed. If doing again I would feed at least 1Kg/head /day and would not be afraid to double it depending on weather conditions.

john p mc g wrote: »

What weights would the friesan and angus finish at knowing when they would be finished is my biggest concern. Im ve started green cert course so might learn something at that

Fresians if fully grown of summer grazing would need to be 650 kgs+ and idealy over 700kgs in general and can could go to 900kgs in lots of cases.

AA from 550kgs onwards with dairy farmers using more and more easy calving they can be quite small.

john p mc g · 11-10-2013 08:14PM

What weights would the friesan and angus finish at knowing when they would be finished is my biggest concern. Im ve started green cert course so might learn something at that

Zr105 · 11-10-2013 09:01PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Are they paying for themselves?

Yep, sure on d hook there a bit behind d continentals money wise but ours get the same treatment as the continentals bar first year.

There bought in bucket fed, givin calf nuts an hay, then turfed out to grass.

The continentals are born left out to grass wit cows then creep fed before there weaned,
Then both lots are put in shed and fed same for first winter, out to grass together then back in shed and finished on the same diet.
The cost of creep feedin adds in to similar to nut and milk replacer for Friesians, so in reality the only difference is that a continental your payin for keeping cow, but gettin the slightly better payout to cover this

john p mc g · 11-10-2013 10:03PM

How much nut do you give the friesans for first winter

Sharpshooter82 · 11-10-2013 11:22PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

How much meal would you feed on grass for their first summer?

i feed my AA 1kg a day after 10 weeks old and after a month or so i up it to 2kg a day. 3- 4kg a day for the first winter and then 2kg a day the second summer and raise till 4kg for finishing

Sharpshooter82 · 11-10-2013 11:26PM

john p mc g wrote: »

Thanks for reply what age do you finish the friesans when do you squeeze them

I squeezed mine around 10 months but leaving my AA to run to bulls this time around

Sam Kade · 12-10-2013 12:22AM

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i feed my AA 1kg a day after 10 months and after a month or so i up it to 2kg a day. 3- 4kg a day for the first winter and then 2kg a day the second summer and raise till 4kg for finishing

That's a lot of meal

Sam Kade · 12-10-2013 12:25AM

Zr105 wrote: »

Yep, sure on d hook there a bit behind d continentals money wise but ours get the same treatment as the continentals bar first year.

There bought in bucket fed, givin calf nuts an hay, then turfed out to grass.

The continentals are born left out to grass wit cows then creep fed before there weaned,
Then both lots are put in shed and fed same for first winter, out to grass together then back in shed and finished on the same diet.
The cost of creep feedin adds in to similar to nut and milk replacer for Friesians, so in reality the only difference is that a continental your payin for keeping cow, but gettin the slightly better payout to cover this

Is there more profit with autumn born friesians by having them grazing longer the first summer and leaving out rearing one winter less?

Sharpshooter82 · 12-10-2013 12:41AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's a lot of meal

It seems to be but I don't think it's much more than what some farmers put into CH and the like to finish them off.
That's my system but others may be different and I know some people do grass only if they have the acres but I'm tight for space

john p mc g · 12-10-2013 10:49AM

Thats almost a ton and half of meal say around 450 euro
250to buy
60 for milkreplacer
would 150 cover grass and silage.
What sort of money would they average out finished these figures could be way off open to correction

Sharpshooter82 · 12-10-2013 11:28AM

john p mc g wrote: »

Thats almost a ton and half of meal say around 450 euro
250to buy
60 for milkreplacer
would 150 cover grass and silage.
What sort of money would they average out finished these figures could be way off open to correction

These are my figures for this year as a test as I fed a lot less meal over last winter and that.
so far I hit 400kg and 420kg at 20 months old this year with two heifers that sold for 700 and 750.
Increasing meal this rotation to see what difference it makes and this time I'm rearing bulls.
Only started out on my own patch myself two years ago and it's a learning curve for me too

Damo810 · 12-10-2013 05:00PM

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

i feed my AA 1kg a day after 10 weeks old and after a month or so i up it to 2kg a day. 3- 4kg a day for the first winter and then 2kg a day the second summer and raise till 4kg for finishing

Saying they're January calves, get to grass in march and graze to October, you've already fed 510KG of meal(they're getting 30KG in February indoors).

3.5KG over the first winter, a four month winter would be 420KG.
2KG/day in the second summer again, March to Oct would be 480KG.
4KG at finishing over 120days would be a further 480KG.

Bringing the total to 1890KG per animal. Leaving meal at 300 the tonne your paying €567 on meal.

Replacer at €50
Calf at €250

Your already at €867 before diesel, silage, fert doses etc.. Another €200 be a fair figure to cover all that? €1067

Going to the factory at 26 months, with a beef price of €4/KG you need a carcase weight of 266.75Kg to break even or 533KG liveweight (taking a K/o) of 50%.

Of course, add in the bonus' and your into some profit. Nothing huge but if you get the carcase over 300KG you make €176 on the animal and €120 off the 40c/Kg bonus. Sorry for the ramble

Zr105 · 12-10-2013 05:38PM

Ours would be autumn Friesians,
First winter prob bag of milk round 30kg prob of calf nut and watever hay they'll eat( not much) then out ti grass by day atleast from mid feb. That way were finished wit them long before sucklers start to calve..

Sharpshooter82 · 12-10-2013 05:42PM

Damo810 wrote: »

Saying they're January calves, get to grass in march and graze to October, you've already fed 510KG of meal(they're getting 30KG in February indoors).

3.5KG over the first winter, a four month winter would be 420KG.
2KG/day in the second summer again, March to Oct would be 480KG.
4KG at finishing over 120days would be a further 480KG.

Bringing the total to 1890KG per animal. Leaving meal at 300 the tonne your paying €567 on meal.

Replacer at €50
Calf at €250

Your already at €867 before diesel, silage, fert doses etc.. Another €200 be a fair figure to cover all that? €1067

Going to the factory at 26 months, with a beef price of €4/KG you need a carcase weight of 266.75Kg to break even or 533KG liveweight (taking a K/o) of 50%.

Of course, add in the bonus' and your into some profit. Nothing huge but if you get the carcase over 300KG you make €176 on the animal and €120 off the 40c/Kg bonus. Sorry for the ramble

get it outta ya

no its a fair reflection but as i said before here im lucky that its a hobby to me (full time job and all) and have little inputs just meal would be my main expense.
i plan to have the cattle gone by the second winter each rotation so thats at 16 - 22 months of age.
i managed two heifers at averaging 420kg with only a fraction of the meal i mentioned above so im hopeful that 530kg is possible to reach

Zr105 · 12-10-2013 05:52PM

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

I squeezed mine around 10 months but leaving my AA to run to bulls this time around

Have you looked to were your going with the bulls yet? Most factories have very tight goal post for bulls now and thats if they'll even kill them. Most are under 16months now with carcas weight of 420 kg anything over your off grid and being dropped money left right and centre...

Sharpshooter82 · 12-10-2013 05:56PM

Zr105 wrote: »

Have you looked to were your going with the bulls yet? Most factories have very tight goal post for bulls now and thats if they'll even kill them. Most are under 16months now with carcas weight of 420 kg anything over your off grid and being dropped money left right and centre...

yeah i knew something was up. was planning bulls but my mind was jumping back and forth on it. still time for me to squeeze them for another while. any advice or suggestions??

Zr105 · 12-10-2013 06:19PM

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

yeah i knew something was up. was planning bulls but my mind was jumping back and forth on it. still time for me to squeeze them for another while. any advice or suggestions??

I dont really no to behonest, most ppl I've talked to that are at it say you need to have mind set from day 1 and push all the way, but i dont really no myself to behonest. Wouldn't suit us as it would be extra grazing group and tryin to keep them spaced fro. Heifers, plus personally 1 bull is enough to deal withl

Oh and id defo do homework on factory as some were only killing a percentage each week and had to be pre booked

Sharpshooter82 · 12-10-2013 06:28PM

Zr105 wrote: »

I dont really no to behonest, most ppl I've talked to that are at it say you need to have mind set from day 1 and push all the way, but i dont really no myself to behonest. Wouldn't suit us as it would be extra grazing group and tryin to keep them spaced fro. Heifers, plus personally 1 bull is enough to deal withl

yeah i heard bulls dont take kindly to a change in thier diets as in meal and that no matter how slight

Zr105 · 12-10-2013 06:30PM

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

yeah i heard bulls dont take kindly to a change in thier diets as in meal and that no matter how slight

Especially at adlib half a kilo can cause big problens

Sharpshooter82 · 12-10-2013 06:32PM

Zr105 wrote: »

Especially at adlib half a kilo can cause big problens

steers sound a lot easier now mmmmmmmmmmm

Zr105 · 12-10-2013 06:43PM

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

steers sound a lot easier now mmmmmmmmmmm

Thats your decision to make

life would be boring if we all did it the same

calf rearing to beef

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