Postcode system predictions

CrazyRabbit · 09-10-2013 12:04PM

MBSnr wrote: »

But if they don't have house numbers, like most of rural Ireland? How does your system work? We don't all live in cities.

I can rem some 7 digit postcodes for the UK for family members. Why is it that this thread has people complaining about having to rem. these codes and the extra hassle that they'll bring....? Do you know every single phone number off by heart or do you occasionally have to look one up in your phone to pass on to someone? Same difference surely? I mean how many letters are you writing a day?

Really why is it seen as hassle even though it a positive sensible thing they have done?

The system I suggested doesn't use house numbers. I assume everyone lives on a street with a name though? If not, it would make more sense to give each street a name than to rely on postcodes for this. Any houses should have a house number...even if it's a single house miles from anywhere.

After reading this thread, I can see why postcodes are needed, but I don't think they need to be so long for such a small country. If we're going to do it, make it as easy as possible.
County identifier, and then each country broken down into areas, which then have a known number of streets...it's all that's needed.

And yes. I don't know phone numbers off by heart. I know the names though, which is akin to a house address. That's my point. It's too hard to remember lots of long 'codes' and easier to remember addresses.

Stainless_Steel · 09-10-2013 12:25PM

aimhigh wrote: »

Sorry for stopping your speculative fun but this has been gone through so many times here and other forums ad infinitum. There are well documented facts to work from!

There is a tender process running since Jan 2011. That process is to select a Postacode Management Licenese Holder - i.e someone to implement the postcode and manage it for 10 years! The postcode specified for implementation is that as contained in the recommendations of the National Post Code Board in their report of 2006;- they recommended ABC 123 and this is specifically mentioned in the tender document!

The tender process has not met its deadlines - award of the contract is now 25 months beyond deadline but 3 potential suppliers to implement the ABC 123 postcode have been selected and the process has not been terminated. An Post is one of the preferred suppliers. The Minister frequently refers to the "ongoing" tender in his Dail statements and uses it as a reason why he cannot discuss the details of what exactly is happening.

That all being the case then, only ABC 123 is on the table and all other options were discarded in the 2006 report as a result of the Data Commissioner's judgement. It was suggested recently that the same Data Commissioner has not since changed his judgement. So nothing to speculate about really except when it might possibly happen!

It's all in the public domain and here on the Dept Of Communications website if you want to read it:
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Postal/Postcodes.htm

To change any of the above and consider any other options, the following would have to happen:

1. Cancel the tender currennt process (not without issues!)
2. Establish an independent National Address Agency which will take responsibility for specifications and controlling address creation, structure and maintenance in Ireland henceforth, with public safety as a major consideration.
3. Revisit the 2006 report and reconsider all the other options and make a new final report
4. Revisit the cost benefit analysis and consider the wider benefits of a postcode including he benefits to public safety!
5. Have the Data Commissioner change his judgment or introduce legislation to remove the problem
6. Change the Postal Act to allow for a precise postcode (currently only allows for a "locality" postcode - and a locality for the recent property tax in the Revenue Commissioners website mapping contained hundreds of properties)
7. Revisit the liberalisation of the postal market and liberalise An Post's Geodirectory as well. Or at least introduce legislation, as is the case for the equivalanet (PAF) in the UK, to ensure that the Geodirectory must be made available to all who want to use it and at a reasonable price. This to ensure that whoever gets the contract has guaranteed access to it without restrictions which may otherwise dictate that only An Post could get the contract!
8. Start a new tender process but not for implementation - to select a postcode design first and then run a seperate process afterwards to select those who will implement it and manage it (independent of An Post)

Then all options can be freely and openly considered and the best for the country and all possible users selected!

But this has gone on for 10 years now, so if there were to be speculation it might be about how to get the Minister to make up his mind and get on with it!

A lot of your info is incorrect. I will only correct 1 main point. The postcode will not be ABC 123.

It will be more like ABC D123

Teagwee · 09-10-2013 12:36PM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

The system I suggested doesn't use house numbers. I assume everyone lives on a street with a name though? If not, it would make more sense to give each street a name than to rely on postcodes for this. Any houses should have a house number...even if it's a single house miles from anywhere.

Unfortunately, not everyone lives on a definitive street. Rural Ireland is generally a mish-mash of townlands that can defy organisation into codes. For example, my aunt and uncle live in one townland in the north west, their next-door neighbours (on the same street/road) live in another and the people directly across the very same street in a third! My mind boggles at the logistical nightmare this will be if streets form the basis of the new system :eek:

wil · 09-10-2013 01:43PM

Personally I like http://what3words.com/
Get some fun combinations

Who wouldn't want a postcode like moth.punk.squad or poems.equal.wrong
Some are appropriate for their location
hoping.policy.spot or roads.crowds.free

iverjohnston · 09-10-2013 03:26PM

I suppose if you wanted to organise by house number, you should have started from a point where each road had one clearly defined name. And each cross road also.
There has been some opposition to even naming roads, as depending on which end of it you turn into, locals have a predefined opinion of what the road is called, and are not inclined to change.
The numbering of local roads raised the suspicions of some people, and I cannot truthfully think of anyone who bothered to learn the numbers of local roads, or indeed their own road.
Some people don't like the name given,from a linguistic viewpoint, some from a political viewpoint, and some will not trust anything the Government attempts, almost as a matter of course.
The problem with townlands is that they are often defined by a boundary comprising a road, or a drain you could step across., and run higgidly-piggedly across roads, etc.
Hopefully we get a definitive system of codes, and that they are not changed, updated or amended in a few years time. (ask a farmer about the system of identity tags for cattle, at least 3 changes before the current one was settled upon)
Then, most people will just save the post-code against the persons name in their phone contacts. Other countries have managed for years, we will too.

NIMAN · 09-10-2013 04:05PM

I currently live in a townland in rural Donegal, without a house number, street or road name, and only moved in 2 years ago and have never had any issue with delayed post or deliveries.

When I moved there, I went to the local post office, told them who I was, where I lived and that they'd probably be receiving mail for me, and this is who I am. I started getting mail a few days later, no problems.

I like the lack of postcodes, although if I was having a heart attack or stroke, maybe the ambulance getting to me quickly might be worth a postcode!

iverjohnston · 09-10-2013 06:00PM

NIMAN wrote: »

I currently live in a townland in rural Donegal, without a house number, street or road name, and only moved in 2 years ago and have never had any issue with delayed post or deliveries.

When I moved there, I went to the local post office, told them who I was, where I lived and that they'd probably be receiving mail for me, and this is who I am. I started getting mail a few days later, no problems.

I like the lack of postcodes, although if I was having a heart attack or stroke, maybe the ambulance getting to me quickly might be worth a postcode!

You get your post because the local postman or woman now knows that NIMAN lives in "the old Jamsie Doherty place" !

MBSnr · 10-10-2013 10:13AM

iverjohnston wrote: »

You get your post because the local postman or woman now knows that NIMAN lives in "the old Jamsie Doherty place" !

Exactly - that isn't postcode related. An Post do a good job IMO. This isn't about knocking An Post or whatever. We moved house from a rented place and told the postman we had. Old post addressed to us at the rental property was delivered to our new address in a different townland. If that was the UK, you'd have to have to setup a mail redirect for a certain timeframe and pay for that service. I know as I had a re-direct there. Fair play to the An Post postie.

For me this thread is purely about saying "you know what, post codes aren't such a bad thing". As long as the system is implemented correctly and on time with no massive IT feck up then what's the issue here? Ok in rural areas there's bound to be some resistance regarding the privacy issue perhaps, as previously vague houses are now completely identifiable down to an individual named resident. But that was always the case in locations with house numbers and road names in towns. Of course the system will cost money but are you or I going to get a tax rebate if they don't introduce the postcode system? Are we individually directly going to financially benefit from it? Both No's. Would the country as a whole benefit? I'd say yes.

I'd imagine the savings for the public and private companies is where it'll be seen - HSE home visits, doctors, midwives, home help, patient transfers, ambulances, fire, Gardi etc. Surely any cost saving in the public sector is to be encouraged? Again an individual postcode will mean that the Gov will be able to target each house for water rates, property tax etc. Some say that's unfair... but really it's a charge you will have to pay anyway. But which way would you rather have it? You pay but others get away without paying due to ambiguities with their house address?
It would also help the private sector - ESB, courier delivery route planning. I'll be cynical enough to know that the private sector aren't going to pass any savings on to us for sure and that postcodes will be used by insurance companies as a pricing tool in their products.

In fact the biggest issue facing Ireland with the postcodes is it'll stop many signing up to Sky multiple times as a new customer from the same address...

Those on this thread that say "Ah sure why change the system, it works fine and I always get my post are either living in cities or towns or are not looking at the bigger picture outside of "I get my post, sure it's grand". Yes An Post never ring to find my house or work office, their local knowledge negates the need to do that. So you might get your post every time, but those like myself who get courier deliveries from drivers who may have come over from Dublin or up from Limerick and have to ring and ask "how do I find your office....."?

Irish postcode in sat nav. Bang... Done.

iverjohnston · 10-10-2013 10:48AM

Hopefully it will work, because its a pain trying to get a quote for delivery of items from any UK based courier/truck company at present. Usually give a friends address in Fermanagh, it keeps the cost from going "international" and I am only 20 minutes away.

hardCopy · 10-10-2013 11:11AM

The system isn't being introduced to make life easier for An Post, they already have systems in place to deal with our addressing. The new system is supposed to make life easier for their competition: couriers and other postal services, that's why An post haven't been awarded the contract to run the new system.

Capt'n Midnight · 10-10-2013 11:50AM

So who pays for the system ?

Will this new monopoly on post codes charge for their use or will the state finance them through higher taxes.

Considering that a referendum costs about €20m, mostly in advertising, that's a rough figure of a tenner a household just to launch this thing. Not to mention potential cost increases for home and car insurance.

Will we be back to the bad old days of recruitment using address as a filter.

Can An Post be legally forced to reject mail with missing or incorrect post codes ?

Fred Swanson · 10-10-2013 12:23PM

This post has been deleted.

saltyjack silverblade · 10-10-2013 12:28PM

Has anyone else had a postcode appear on a letter? I got something from the lifeboats looking for money and they had what looked like a postcode on the bottom. It would make sense as well. County initials and a number and then another number and an abbreviation of the townland.

el pasco · 10-10-2013 12:59PM

MBSnr wrote: »

Exactly - that isn't postcode related. An Post do a good job IMO. This isn't about knocking An Post or whatever. We moved house from a rented place and told the postman we had. Old post addressed to us at the rental property was delivered to our new address in a different townland. If that was the UK, you'd have to have to setup a mail redirect for a certain timeframe and pay for that service. I know as I had a re-direct there. Fair play to the An Post postie.

For me this thread is purely about saying "you know what, post codes aren't such a bad thing". As long as the system is implemented correctly and on time with no massive IT feck up then what's the issue here? Ok in rural areas there's bound to be some resistance regarding the privacy issue perhaps, as previously vague houses are now completely identifiable down to an individual named resident. But that was always the case in locations with house numbers and road names in towns. Of course the system will cost money but are you or I going to get a tax rebate if they don't introduce the postcode system? Are we individually directly going to financially benefit from it? Both No's. Would the country as a whole benefit? I'd say yes.

I'd imagine the savings for the public and private companies is where it'll be seen - HSE home visits, doctors, midwives, home help, patient transfers, ambulances, fire, Gardi etc. Surely any cost saving in the public sector is to be encouraged? Again an individual postcode will mean that the Gov will be able to target each house for water rates, property tax etc. Some say that's unfair... but really it's a charge you will have to pay anyway. But which way would you rather have it? You pay but others get away without paying due to ambiguities with their house address?
It would also help the private sector - ESB, courier delivery route planning. I'll be cynical enough to know that the private sector aren't going to pass any savings on to us for sure and that postcodes will be used by insurance companies as a pricing tool in their products.

In fact the biggest issue facing Ireland with the postcodes is it'll stop many signing up to Sky multiple times as a new customer from the same address...

Those on this thread that say "Ah sure why change the system, it works fine and I always get my post are either living in cities or towns or are not looking at the bigger picture outside of "I get my post, sure it's grand". Yes An Post never ring to find my house or work office, their local knowledge negates the need to do that. So you might get your post every time, but those like myself who get courier deliveries from drivers who may have come over from Dublin or up from Limerick and have to ring and ask "how do I find your office....."?

Irish postcode in sat nav. Bang... Done.

Sorry but how does not having a postcode affect hse home visits from a nurse or Gardai coming to your house or getting letter or any other service?
It never one affected me or anyone I know of who lives so why bother I not trying to be smart but postcode were never needed in the first place anyway not sure why they are being used

How on earth but it bring in any savings?? Seriously though how? I don't see how it will bring in any savings

mr kr0nik · 10-10-2013 01:11PM

I guess I won't be able to use AR5E on Amazon any more.

Wait until the junk mail starts arriving...

paulbok · 10-10-2013 01:14PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

These new post codes will put a lot of noses out of joint in Dublin. People who actually live in somewhere but claim they live in a posh area, whatever will you do now!

Example plenty who live in Ballymun claim its Glasnevin and living in areas of Blacnh but say Castleknock.

It's Glasnevin North actually

hardCopy · 10-10-2013 01:14PM

el pasco wrote: »

Sorry but how does not having a postcode affect hse home visits from a nurse or Gardai coming to your house or getting letter or any other service?
It never one affected me or anyone I know of who lives so why bother I not trying to be smart but postcode were never needed in the first place anyway not sure why they are being used

How on earth but it bring in any savings?? Seriously though how? I don't see how it will bring in any savings

Having a definitive address removes the need for local knowledge and makes it easier to use Satnav. You could potentially end up with Gardai from outside the local area covering entire counties or multiple counties from a single base.

It also opens up the postal market to new entrants.

For what it's worth I don't think it'll work unless An Post are forced to reject letters that don't use the postcode, otherwise nobody would bother to learnt the new codes, leaving other operators in the same position they are now.

salacious crumb · 10-10-2013 01:14PM

There were some very funny tweets relating to Donegal postcodes in thos morning's metro letters page :pac:

MBSnr · 10-10-2013 02:22PM

el pasco wrote: »

Sorry but how does not having a postcode affect hse home visits from a nurse or Gardai coming to your house or getting letter or any other service?
It never one affected me or anyone I know of who lives so why bother I not trying to be smart but postcode were never needed in the first place anyway not sure why they are being used

How on earth but it bring in any savings?? Seriously though how? I don't see how it will bring in any savings

Yes you're right on letters - no savings there. As previously mentioned it will make no difference to An Post deliveries.

The savings I'm thinking of are small quantities. Who pays for the phone calls for the HSE person, nurse etc when trying to find your house? The few litres extra used when claiming mileage etc. I'm sure they claim all these expenses back - it is the the public service after all! This isn't current but look at the 2009 mileage rates for HSE employees. 97.95c per mile! Now it's possible those motor mileage rates don't apply to HSE nurses and doctors on call (who use official HSE cars) or aren't applicable after HSE cutbacks. I didn't dig too much, so I don't know. However a private company I worked for paid 25c per mile as a comparison during that time frame in 2009.

So times that by the 100s of times a day across the entire country. Sure you could argue that it'll never add up to 20m Euro (or whatever the cost of the postcode system turns out to be). Perhaps you're right. But I'd say there's savings made if a sat nav was used with the postcodes with the amount of time and distance driving cut down correspondingly.

Fred Swanson · 10-10-2013 02:30PM

This post has been deleted.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 10-10-2013 03:54PM

hardCopy wrote: »

Having a definitive address removes the need for local knowledge and makes it easier to use Satnav. You could potentially end up with Gardai from outside the local area covering entire counties or multiple counties from a single base.

It also opens up the postal market to new entrants.

For what it's worth I don't think it'll work unless An Post are forced to reject letters that don't use the postcode, otherwise nobody would bother to learnt the new codes, leaving other operators in the same position they are now.

You may not bother but I'd imagine most people posting a letter or parcel who want it to get to its destination will use the post code to ensure it arrives.

MBSnr · 10-10-2013 04:04PM

^^^
Ah sure we fear change... even if some of it is for the better....

salacious crumb · 11-10-2013 08:21AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

#donegalpostcodes

"You see the white house with the flag on the roof...it's not that one it's about a mile after that"

"Drive hon der for feive mile turn left right and when you see the shed with the galvanise rooove you've gone too fer"

"Leave it inside the tractor tyre outside the gate"

"It's just after that wile dangerous part of the road where your cousin wrote his Civic off last year"

"You can't see the house from the road, I'll send the son to wait at the gate. Mind the cattle grid"

"The road'll go right but you keep left"

iverjohnston · 11-10-2013 01:39PM

Cavan post code;
Go out of the village over the bridge, ay, where the Artificial Insemanization office was. Go on out that road till you get to the One Tree, yeah, there is a tree growing in the middle of the road, go left dere, and go on to the village of Redhills. Straight through it till you come to the "Flying saucer"
You are at the house then.
You cant miss it.

(genuine directions)

brokenarms · 11-10-2013 01:55PM

As a delivery driver, this is the best news this year.

Getting directions to some small cottage in the hills in the dark get very tiresome and time consuming .

This will open up online shopping for Ireland.

saltyjack silverblade · 11-10-2013 01:59PM

iverjohnston wrote: »

Cavan post code;
Go out of the village over the bridge, ay, where the Artificial Insemanization office was. Go on out that road till you get to the One Tree, yeah, there is a tree growing in the middle of the road, go left dere, and go on to the village of Redhills. Straight through it till you come to the "Flying saucer"
You are at the house then.
You cant miss it.

(genuine directions)

I am on the way. Put the tay on

iverjohnston · 11-10-2013 02:03PM

We even have Coffee! Come on ahead.

hardCopy · 11-10-2013 02:08PM

CJC999 wrote: »

You may not bother but I'd imagine most people posting a letter or parcel who want it to get to its destination will use the post code to ensure it arrives.

I think you overestimate people's ability to follow simple instructions.

Fred Swanson · 11-10-2013 03:59PM

This post has been deleted.

Leonard Shelby · 11-10-2013 04:34PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And why wouldn't they? Its just A65 B2CD as a format, not Egyptian Hieroglyphics.

The Sat Nav companies license Postcode data in every other country that has them, why would it be any different here?

Postcode system predictions

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