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Is there a differance between the Real IRA and the Continuity IRA?

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  • #632
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Rubeter wrote: »
    Why on earth would you be expected to agree with it, and we must live on different Islands if you think the people here are insular, practically every person I know knows more about Europe than many many (comparable age wise) people I have met in and from Britain.

    Yes Britain is also insular (and you could well be justified in saying more so) but at the same time it is a pretty big place with a greater variety of opinion than Ireland. Should Ireland copy Britain?

    If Ireland spoke Irish it would be lot less insular because it wouldnt so be reliant on the anglo-saxon world for ideas and entertainment.


  • #633
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    If Ireland spoke Irish it would be lot less insular because it wouldnt so be reliant on the anglo-saxon world for ideas and entertainment.
    I don't believe that, you can get the Simpsons in german. :)


  • #634
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Yes Britain is also insular (and you could well be justified in saying more so) but at the same time it is a pretty big place with a greater variety of opinion than Ireland. Should Ireland copy Britain?
    What? What do you mean by "should Ireland copy Britain?"
    Are you asking should we become more insular like they are? :confused:

    Just want to add I wouldn't think there is more of a variety of opinions in Britain, just more people with each opinion.
    If Ireland spoke Irish it would be lot less insular because it wouldnt so be reliant on the anglo-saxon world for ideas and entertainment.
    Could be true.


  • #635
    Howard Juneau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Howard Juneau


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Yes Britain is also insular (and you could well be justified in saying more so) but at the same time it is a pretty big place with a greater variety of opinion than Ireland. Should Ireland copy Britain?

    If Ireland spoke Irish it would be lot less insular because it wouldnt so be reliant on the anglo-saxon world for ideas and entertainment.

    If Ireland spoke Irish we would actually become more insular.
    The vast majority of people in this country do not want to speak the language, or even have it taught as a compulsory subject in school


  • #636
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    If Ireland spoke Irish we would actually become more insular.
    The vast majority of people in this country do not want to speak the language, or even have it taught as a compulsory subject in school

    Are you sure about that? Look at the Dutch- no one speaks Dutch or interested in learning it so they go out of their way to learn so many languages. Plus the number of Irish speakers and Gaelscoileanna is increasing all the time. I went to Grammar School in the north where Irish wasnt thought but I have been learning it and it has been a very rewarding experience.


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  • #637
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? Look at the Dutch- no one speaks Dutch or interested in learning it so they go out of their way to learn so many languages. Plus the number of Irish speakers and Gaelscoileanna is increasing all the time. I went to Grammar School in the north where Irish wasnt thought but I have been learning it and it has been a very rewarding experience.
    The languages the Dutch mostly learn is English and the language of neighbouring countries. Even if the Irish did speak Irish our only neighbour speaks English so that's the only language we'd learn anyway.

    Blame geography for Ireland's isolation not language. We're never going to be Germany, smack bang in the centre of Europe.


  • #638
    Howard Juneau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Howard Juneau


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? Look at the Dutch- no one speaks Dutch or interested in learning it so they go out of their way to learn so many languages. Plus the number of Irish speakers and Gaelscoileanna is increasing all the time. I went to Grammar School in the north where Irish wasnt thought but I have been learning it and it has been a very rewarding experience.

    I'm 100%.sure of it.
    All you need do to satisfy yourr own curiosity is look at threads & polls on here & you will see the apathy & hatred for the language.
    The govt had said the subject would be removed as a compulsory subject, but it hasn't happened to date


  • #639
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    I'm 100%.sure of it.
    All you need do to satisfy yourr own curiosity is look at threads & polls on here & you will see the apathy & hatred for the language.
    The govt had said the subject would be removed as a compulsory subject, but it hasn't happened to date

    Actually I have been shocked by the amount of people who speak where I live (an urban place) and their happiness to let me practice it with them-and such a wide range of people from Protestant Ministers to hippies to Doctors. Those who dont speak it usually regret that they cant.


  • #640
    Howard Juneau
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Howard Juneau


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Actually I have been shocked by the amount of people who speak where I live (an urban place) and their happiness to let me practice it with them-and such a wide range of people from Protestant Ministers to hippies to Doctors. Those who dont speak it usually regret that they cant.

    Níl sé sin cheart, b'féidir go bhfuil na daoine seo at thógáil an mícháel.


  • #641
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The languages the Dutch mostly learn is English and the language of neighbouring countries. Even if the Irish did speak Irish our only neighbour speaks English so that's the only language we'd learn anyway.
    True, though having to learn a foreign language would open people's minds and we wouldn't be stuck in "the curse of the Anglo-Sphere" that is the fear or apathy towards other languages. We would be more comfortable with dubbed TV and films for example.
    Blame geography for Ireland's isolation not language. We're never going to be Germany, smack bang in the centre of Europe.
    I agree there, geography plays a much greater role in a country's level of insularity than its language, sure it's geographical isolation that gave rise to different languages in the first place and islands do tend to me more inward looking and the greater the population the more inward looking that society usually is, hence Britain (and as an extreme example Japan) being more so than little Ireland.

    Note, I do not use the word "insular" as an insult, because I know too much about the rest of the world and don't naively think that densely populated, highly urbanised and very mixed part of Europe people usually compare us to when using that word is representative of human societies worldwide.
    We are insular compared to people from Brussels but not compared to the vast majority of people worldwide.


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  • #642
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Painted Pony wrote: »
    First of all, the IRA’s cellular structure was very effective. It hard to believe that many of them would be giving up any useful information to some housewife asking a lot of questions. Possible, but a bit doubtful IMO.

    There was no cellular structure in the early-1970s. What existed then was the old brigade and battalion structure which would have meant a Volunteer would have been exposed to many other members at any one time. McConville lived in the Divis Flats, massive tower blocks where Republicans moved around unmasked and openly carrying guns. Having someone who lived in those flats reporting on names, faces etc could provide reams of low-level information.
    Second, once she was caught the first time, do you really think the IRA would have turned a blind eye? Someone might have been putting the life and liberty if their “volunteers” at risk and they just let her back into the community?

    They obviously didn't want the bad publicity of killing a widowed mother of ten, which has been demonstrated by the fact they initially denied responsibility for killing her.
    Third, once she was caught, what earthly use would she be to the British? Even if they had no concern for her personal safety, how would they expect her to get any useful information? Anything she passed on was as likely to misinformation as real.

    As I said above, the early-1970s was a very different time and as such all someone had to do was stick their head out the door in order to see something worth passing on.


  • #643
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Howard Juneau wrote: »
    The govt had said the subject would be removed as a compulsory subject, but it hasn't happened to date


    No they havent, FG were suggesting it going into the election, but they faced a backlash from the electorate on the issue and Labour were also against it. When it came to putting the program for government together the idea was dropped.


  • #644
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    True, though having to learn a foreign language would open people's minds and we wouldn't be stuck in "the curse of the Anglo-Sphere" that is the fear or apathy towards other languages. We would be more comfortable with dubbed TV and films for example.
    They wouldn't learn a foreign language, they'd just end up being bilingual Irish and English speakers.
    Rubeter wrote: »
    I agree there, geography plays a much greater role in a country's level of insularity than its language, sure it's geographical isolation that gave rise to different languages in the first place and islands do tend to me more inward looking and the greater the population the more inward looking that society usually is, hence Britain (and as an extreme example Japan) being more so than little Ireland.

    Note, I do not use the word "insular" as an insult, because I know too much about the rest of the world and don't naively think that densely populated, highly urbanised and very mixed part of Europe people usually compare us to when using that word is representative of human societies worldwide.
    We are insular compared to people from Brussels but not compared to the vast majority of people worldwide.
    I'd agree with this, we are inward looking but not cripplingly so.


  • #645
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    An Coilean wrote: »
    No they havent, FG were suggesting it going into the election, but they faced a backlash from the electorate on the issue and Labour were also against it. When it came to putting the program for government together the idea was dropped.
    You mean they faced a backlash against students hoping to be Irish teachers.


  • #646
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    They wouldn't learn a foreign language, they'd just end up being bilingual Irish and English speakers.
    The hypothetical situation was described as "if we spoke Irish" not "if we were a bi-lingual country" therefore we would be just like the Dutch, Danish etc...
    Now unless you don't consider English to be a foreign language to those people (which would be daft) then indeed it would be a foreign language in an Irish speaking Ireland.
    This isn't an Irish language thread and it was just a hypothetical musing not even on the topic of the language, so don't be jumping onto your "anti Irish language" horse.


  • #647
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    The hypothetical situation was described as "if we spoke Irish" not "if we were a bi-lingual country" therefore we would be just like the Dutch, Danish etc...
    Now unless you don't consider English to be a foreign language to those people (which would be daft) then indeed it would be a foreign language in an Irish speaking Ireland.
    This isn't an Irish language thread and it was just a hypothetical musing not even on the topic of the language, so don't be jumping onto your "anti Irish language" horse.
    I understand what you're saying but we'd still be stuck in te curse of the anglosphere as the only other language we 'd speak en mass would be English.


  • #648
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I understand what you're saying but we'd still be stuck in te curse of the anglosphere as the only other language we 'd speak en mass would be English.
    What is the world's most widely spoken second language? Are all those people stuck in the Anglo-sphere? Get real.


  • #649
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You mean they faced a backlash against students hoping to be Irish teachers.

    Indeed they did, and students hoping to be many other things as well, and of course the backlash did not just come from students (if it did it would probably have been ignored).


  • #650
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    If Ireland spoke Irish it would be lot less insular because it wouldnt so be reliant on the anglo-saxon world for ideas and entertainment.

    If Ireland spoke Irish, we would be even more insular than we are already. The Ireland of the 1930s - 1950s under De Valera who was promoting a cultural nationalism was one of the most insular countries in the world.


  • #651
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Godge wrote: »
    If Ireland spoke Irish, we would be even more insular than we are already. The Ireland of the 1930s - 1950s under De Valera who was promoting a cultural nationalism was one of the most insular countries in the world.

    But Ireland spoke English then, indeed Ireland has been at its most insular since it became an English speaking country.


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  • #652
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I really, really fail to see the connection between being insular and speaking English or Irish.

    Is Killarney any more or less insular than Killiney?

    If anything, it is the level of immigration that made Ireland insular as opposed to the language spoken.

    Consistently high levels of emmigration, with no one coming in the opposite direction, isn't going to produce a population with a global view of the world.


  • #653
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    What is the world's most widely spoken second language? Are all those people stuck in the Anglo-sphere? Get real.
    The various Spanish speaking countries of South America all neighbour each other. Who is our only neighbour and who dominates trade in our region? What language does that country speak?


  • #654
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The various Spanish speaking countries of South America all neighbour each other. Who is our only neighbour and who dominates trade in our region? What language does that country speak?
    How the hell could we be "stuck in the curse of the anglosphere" if our native language was Irish. That makes no sense since we wouldn't even be in the anglo-s, get it?


  • #655
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Rubeter wrote: »
    How the hell could we be "stuck in the curse of the anglosphere" if our native language was Irish. That makes no sense since we wouldn't even be in the anglo-s, get it?
    You're not thinking this through. If we spoke Irish the vast majority of bilingual people (of whom would comprise the majority of the population) would speak English. So we'd still be stuck well within the Anglosphere.


  • #656
    Rubeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 390 ✭✭Rubeter


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    You're not thinking this through. If we spoke Irish the only vast vast majority of bilingual people (of whom would comprise the majority of the population) would speak English. So we'd still be stuck well within the Anglosphere.
    This is my last post on this OT business.
    The anglosphere is the native English speaking world, Irish is not English, if we spoke Irish we would not be part of the native English speaking world, just like Denmark, and even though most Danes speak English the country is not part of the Anglosphere.
    Good bye.


  • #657
    .jacksparrow.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭.jacksparrow.


    This thread has strayed way of the original topic.


  • #658
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    .jacksparrow. wrote: »
    This thread has strayed way of the original topic.

    Well said.

    This thread is meant to be about two psychotic terrorist/nutter drug taking groups who should belong to the history books, instead of which we have these gun touting IRA dregs of society boyhos actually being defended (in some cases) and given love hate type of 'gansta' status.

    Both groups should all be rounded up and put into an unoccupied ghost estate in the middle of nowhere for a little inter gang weekend war, armed to the teeth with as many guns and sticks of semtex that they can carry . . .

    That should do the trick.


  • #659
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well said.

    This thread is meant to be about two psychotic terrorist/nutter drug taking groups who should belong to the history books, instead of which we have these gun touting IRA dregs of society boyhos actually being defended (in some cases) and given love hate type of 'gansta' status.

    Both groups should all be rounded up and put into an unoccupied ghost estate in the middle of nowhere for a little inter gang weekend war, armed to the teeth with as many guns and sticks of semtex that they can carry . . .

    That should do the trick.

    I am totally opposed to murder and terrorism. What we need is a good bout of murder and terrorism to sort it out.


  • #660
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    What other groups do you want to re-establish gladitorial combat as a punishment for?

    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well said.

    This thread is meant to be about two psychotic terrorist/nutter drug taking groups who should belong to the history books, instead of which we have these gun touting IRA dregs of society boyhos actually being defended (in some cases) and given love hate type of 'gansta' status.

    Both groups should all be rounded up and put into an unoccupied ghost estate in the middle of nowhere for a little inter gang weekend war, armed to the teeth with as many guns and sticks of semtex that they can carry . . .

    That should do the trick.


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  • #661
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    What other groups do you want to re-establish gladitorial combat as a punishment for?

    Just the two mentioned in the thread title.


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