Lewd remarks - banter or not?

sdanseo · 06-10-2013 06:24PM

We make some horrific jokes in work all the time, but only among ourselves. We wouldn't go saying them to people on the street. There's a kind of line between being normal and being a moron.

The Big Smoke · 06-10-2013 06:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you even read my post about it not being a gender issue? no? didn't think so.

Find me a post of mine where I ever have "rabbited" on about the objectification of women - I bet you can't because it has never ever happened.

No, you said you were tired of people bringing up the diet coke ad. The classic "shut up and take it" line trotted out whenever a man questions objectification. Whereas there's uproar when its women being objectified.

06-10-2013 06:30PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Until it becomes equal to objectify both genders in ads, it should be repeated again and again. I'm sure you would be rabbiting on in whatever ladies forum about the poor wimminz being objectified in lynx or hunky dory ads. Problem is that most ads objectifying women are pulled after a while, whereas beauties like "he drives she dies" is perfectly acceptable.

I fail to see how a man being objectified in an ad somehow removes people's right to argue that the woman in the article shouldn't have had the comment in question shouted at her in public. They're two completely separate issues.

Wait, I'll try again. Man takes shirt off in ad. Woman gets harassed in public in a completely unrelated incident. Nope, I don't see the connection.

06-10-2013 06:31PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

No, you said you were tired of people bringing up the diet coke ad. The classic "shut up and take it" line trotted out whenever a man questions objectification. Whereas there's uproar when its women being objectified.

The moment that diet coke ad anecdote was posted, it turned it into a gender issue. It didn't need to be a gender issue.

Apart from the fact that one is about an advert on TV and the link the OP is about a woman on her way to work. Bringing the diet coke ad into this thread was ludicrous.

April O Neill · 06-10-2013 06:32PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

No, you said you were tired of people bringing up the diet coke ad. The classic "shut up and take it" line trotted out whenever a man questions objectification.

That diet coke ad is pretty much all you've got. There are other ads objectifying men, but ads objectifying women are much, much, MUCH more prevalent. It's not even anywhere remotely comparable.

The equivalent for men, is menfolk being represented as blithering idiots who can barely tie their own shoelaces in ads. Objectification of men rarely happens, at least relative to women. The fact that you had to cite an ad from over 20 YEARS AGO shows this.

The Big Smoke · 06-10-2013 06:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The moment that diet coke ad anecdote was posted, it turned it into a gender issue. It didn't need to be a gender issue.

Agreed. Just making a point.

On topic, I have a fairly dark sense of humour so lewdness is a must.

diomed · 06-10-2013 06:33PM

It was probably a Pashley Princess bicycle. When I see someone with a bicycle I look at the bicycle and judge them on that.

06-10-2013 06:34PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

On topic, I have a fairly dark sense of humour so lewdness is a must.

Nothing wrong with a bit of lewdness :P

It's the brain to mouth filter that's the problem with gobshytes like those in the OP!

The Big Smoke · 06-10-2013 06:34PM

April O Neill wrote: »

That diet coke ad is pretty much all you've got.

Muller ads, he drives she dies, galaxy ads, malteaser bars... I could go on but it's off topic.

Bipolar Joe · 06-10-2013 06:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know tbh, because it's the only argument there is?

Like I said, it shouldn't be a gender issue. It's a classless asshole issue!

The thing is, things like these are almost always a gender issue, brought up by one or the other "Side." Hunky Dorys, Club Orange, Yorkie, Ryanair, so on. They all had to apologise, pull ads and stuff because they were deemed sexist. Then you have Diet Coke, Malteasers, DoneDeal, that Bingo app ad, Boys Are Stupid, the "Oven rack in a bag" cleaning ad, so on. All are OK for some reason. It quite often seems that women are allowed to kick up a fuss, which is fine, but men aren't.

I took a class in semiotics and media studies, where we examined The Male Gaze, infantilisation, the mix of sex and violence, among other things. When it was pointed out that men come out bad in these same ads, it was ignored.

Am I saying this lady should shut up? No, I think what you said, she needs to stop being so highly strung. This shouldn't be a case of gender politics, but the way this is written makes it at least seem that way, obviously, to a lot of people.

Any way, I am bored and ill so I'm gonna go off and probably be sick now.

April O Neill · 06-10-2013 06:36PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Muller ads, he drives she dies, galaxy ads, malteaser bars... I could go on but it's off topic.

You might want to be more specific there, as I don't know those ads. I can't think of which ones for those brands sexually objectify men. I think I remember a Aero one from a few years back. Can you enlighten me of the sexually-objectifying-to-men ads for each brand you named? Not being combative, I am just genuinely interested. I think men have another more pervasive and damaging portrayal in modern ads than being sexually objectified, and that's making men look like they are mouth-breathing ludres.

The Big Smoke · 06-10-2013 06:39PM

April O Neill wrote: »

You might want to be more specific there, as I don't know those ads. I can't think of which ones for those brands sexually objectify men. I think I remember a Aero one from a few years back. Can you enlighten me of the sexually-objectifying-to-men ads for each brand you named? Not being combative, I am just genuinely interested. I think men have another more pervasive and damaging portrayal in modern ads than being sexually objectified, and that's making men look like they are mouth-breathing ludres.

Youtube is your friend.

06-10-2013 06:40PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

The thing is, things like these are almost always a gender issue,

Oh believe me, it bothers me greatly that there are "sides" I can't stand that sh*t tbh, but I believe the OP is male and therefore not pushing the gender issue at all. He mentions "people" in his OP, and he talks about it being banter or not, not if it's not fair on the poor women.

Bipolar Joe · 06-10-2013 06:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh believe me, it bothers me greatly that there are "sides" I can't stand that sh*t tbh, but I believe the OP is male and therefore not pushing the gender issue at all. He mentions "people" in his OP, and he talks about it being banter or not, not if it's not fair on the poor women.

If the OP was having a conversation with himself, it might have ended better. But, sooner or later, someone will push.

06-10-2013 06:43PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

If the OP was having a conversation with himself, it might have ended better. But, sooner or later, someone will push.

Unfortunately in this case, it was sooner!

BBDBB · 06-10-2013 06:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know tbh, because it's the only argument there is?

Like I said, it shouldn't be a gender issue. It's a classless asshole issue!

an "argument" for what?

Im not arguing and I don't know why you think I am

Once again I agree, being a classless asshole isn't exclusive to one gender.

Legs.Eleven · 06-10-2013 06:44PM

Banter is usually two-way with both parties engaging in said banter willingly. A stranger on the street telling you what he'd like to do with you is not banter and it's inappropriate, sleazy, disrespectful carry on. I get it on a daily basis here in Madrid as do most women and my reaction is usually to raise my eyes to heaven and class the man in question under "sad case" in my mind.

I'm about to walk to the supermarket dressed in normal, casual clothes and it's almost guaranteed that I will be on the receiving end of a lewd comment/wolf whistle between here and there. Why should I or any woman be cool with that?

Legs.Eleven · 06-10-2013 06:44PM

BBDBB wrote: »

an "argument" for what?

Im not arguing and I don't know why you think I am

Once again I agree, being a classless asshole isn't exclusive to one gender.

What was your Diet Coke comment in reference to?

06-10-2013 06:45PM

It's no consolation I know, but I honestly believe the majority of guys would never dream of saying something so arsey

BBDBB · 06-10-2013 06:47PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

What was your Diet Coke comment in reference to?

that there are "classless assholes" of both genders, neither should be excused

06-10-2013 06:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's no consolation I know, but I honestly believe the majority of guys would never dream of saying something so arsey

Of course they wouldn't, thankfully *most* people are brought up well enough to respect those around them. But like a lot of things, negativity often gets noticed first.

April O Neill · 06-10-2013 06:48PM

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Youtube is your friend.

Nah, you go ahead there, I'd need to know exactly what to look up. Just tell me. If you have examples, what's the problem?

Legs.Eleven · 06-10-2013 06:50PM

BBDBB wrote: »

that there are "classless assholes" of both genders, neither should be excused

Course. The writer of the article never claimed it was only women subjected to this stuff though.

Lingua Franca · 06-10-2013 06:51PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

What brand of arsehole goes cycling in high heels?

Dutch ones, perhaps? Here in the Netherlands people going cycling in everything from high heels to their work unifoms to 3 piece business suits. The arseholes.

BBDBB wrote: »

is it? right ok, why do you think that is?

Because people assume that what advertising executives think women are like, is what women are really like. Or that those women in the diet coke adverts are representative of all women. Or that women have no right to complain about being harrassed because those adverts exist. Strong arguments, there!

The Big Smoke · 06-10-2013 06:52PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Course. The writer of the article never claimed it was only women subjected to this stuff though.

From the article.

Is being harassed part-and-parcel of being female?

Not to mention the words 'women' and 'girl' peppered throughout the article.

Rho b · 06-10-2013 06:53PM

Everyone is becoming more PC as time goes by and in time you will be arrested for looking at a girl/fella.
To be honest I think she should have handled the situation by shouting back a really good "put down" comment and embarrass the guy in front of his friends.

Hitchens · 06-10-2013 07:00PM

Rho b wrote: »

Everyone is becoming more PC as time goes by and in time you will be arrested for looking at a girl/fella.
To be honest I think she should have handled the situation by shouting back a really good "put down" comment and embarrass the guy in front of his friends.

well most people are not stand-up comedy experts and wouldn't be able to come up with a cutting put down on the spur of the moment

BBDBB · 06-10-2013 07:04PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Course. The writer of the article never claimed it was only women subjected to this stuff though.

So Im wondering why Im being quoted as though Ive said something wrong???

No she didn't, however her whole article makes it quite clear that it is women being objectified by men, Ive selected a few of the more obvious quotes below

Women on bicycles can’t help but hear it
Nice tits etc
By virtue of being a woman in this gangs sleazy prescence
This is part and parcel of being female
put yourself in a womans shoes (paragraph heading)

so whilst she didn't claim it was only women being subjected to this stuff, perhaps she should have as it certainly wasn't clear from the article

GalwayGuy2 · 06-10-2013 07:06PM

That diet coke ad is pretty much all you've got. There are other ads objectifying men, but ads objectifying women are much, much, MUCH more prevalent. It's not even anywhere remotely comparable.

Taylor Lautner, Brad Pit, George Clooney, you man from the Aero ad, JLS, Justin Bieber, Magic Mike, pretty much any cover of a romance novel, a gazillion others.

You could list off a lot more, but there isn't just one example for men :P

On the article:

In fairness I found it a little bit ridiculous. He didn't say it to her, so it was her own business to be bothered by it.

April O Neill · 06-10-2013 07:10PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Taylor Lautner, Brad Pit, George Clooney, you man from the Aero ad, JLS, Justin Bieber, Magic Mike, pretty much any cover of a romance novel, a gazillion others.

You could list off a lot more, but there isn't just one example for men

What about the first three?

Naming names doesn't cut it.

The Aero ad, I'll give you.

The romance novel covers - both sexes involved there. And one could argue they are apt for the subject matter. But yeah, objectification of both sexes there.

A gazillion others, really?

Lewd remarks - banter or not?

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