Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

Winters · 30-09-2013 02:56PM

.ak wrote: »

I wonder, and it's been mentioned before, but in order to keep the competition seperate to a pro12 look they could invite championship and d2 sides into the tournament for a year.

The Champioship is run by the RFU but ProD2 is run by LNR.

daveirl · 30-09-2013 02:58PM

This post has been deleted.

.ak · 30-09-2013 02:58PM

Winters wrote: »

The Champioship is run by the RFU but ProD2 is run by LNR.

Ah, wasn't sure. Thanks.

irishbucsfan · 30-09-2013 02:59PM

rrpc wrote: »

Championship clubs mightn't give a fiddlers seeing as the requirements to join the big boys are in many cases out of reach. However the lure of some nice Euro dosh could dispel any doubts.

Ultimately it would be down to the Unions.

Requirements for a Premiership license are set by the RFU, just in case anyone had any doubts over that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the accord between PRL and the RFU had some measures preventing something like this though.

Larbre34 · 30-09-2013 03:39PM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/heineken-cup/2013/0930/477341-mcgrath-we-can-still-find-h-cup-solution/

keps · 30-09-2013 10:31PM

The war is hotting up - first time a coach has come out with guns blazing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10345454/Leicester-director-of-rugby-Richard-Cockerill-warns-RFU-not-to-oppose-clubs-over-Heineken-Cup-breakaway.html

I cannot believe his arrogance( he is a pri*k anyway) - but i fear the RFU are so weak and worried about 2015 that they will fold- all the more important for the other unions to stay united.

molloyjh · 30-09-2013 10:47PM

This really does make a mockery of the RFU in all fairness. That Cockerill feels he can issue demands and threats to them in public like this just shows how much respect and power they hold, i.e. not much.

30-09-2013 10:50PM

Sounds familiar

After half an hour dancing round the subject on Monday highlighting the sterling work done by ERC over the past 18 years in building the value of the tournament, with the €45 million (£37.6 million) distribution to stakeholders expected to rise by at least €10 million (£8.3 million) next year, McGrath cut to the chase.
“The one reason why they [the English clubs] do not want ERC to continue is to frustrate our Sky contract,” said McGrath, whose organisation signed away the rights to the broadcaster even though the English clubs had already announced their own deal with BT Sport.
“That is very clear to us. It is not about performance, it is not about what the competition is, it is about winding down a company [ERC] in the expectation that contracts will fall away. Clearly, that is not something ERC is prepared to accept.” For all the talk of seeking dialogue and settlement, the prospect of it seemed further away than ever on Monday

Something which we may have said not just once on thread here...

Larbre34 · 30-09-2013 10:51PM

Wouldn't mind Cockerill, true to form. His closest playing colleagues regarded him as a sadist and unhinged.

dtpc191991 · 30-09-2013 11:01PM

I am starting to get the feeling that the RFU aren't too supportive of the Farcical Cash-Cow Cup. It is the only reason I can think of to explain PRL's need to constantly threaten the RFU with legal action, the destruction of the National Side etc.

keps · 30-09-2013 11:02PM

It's a very strange move - a coach ( or Director of Rugby) issuing a direct threat to his union.

Grandpa Hassan · 30-09-2013 11:04PM

keps wrote: »

The war is hotting up - first time a coach has come out with guns blazing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10345454/Leicester-director-of-rugby-Richard-Cockerill-warns-RFU-not-to-oppose-clubs-over-Heineken-Cup-breakaway.html

I cannot believe his arrogance( he is a pri*k anyway) - but i fear the RFU are so weak and worried about 2015 that they will fold- all the more important for the other unions to stay united.

The thing is, though club rugby in England might not yet be more popular than international rugby, it is getting there. The view is unanimous between me and other Tigers season ticket holders, and echoed by many fans, that if there is a club v country calendar clash we would rather go to Welford road than a boring blazered twickenham. Would rather manu play for Leicester than England. The RFU knows this, knows that the clubs have the support of the fans, and that in any dispute they will come off worse than the clubs in the court of english public opinion. Puts them in a difficult position

keps · 30-09-2013 11:22PM

that is why I said it is important the other unions stay united.

English clubs paying English clubs week in week out - with no European dimension & with no internationals

McCBrian · 30-09-2013 11:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds familiar

Something which we may have said not just once on thread here...

Yes sounds familiar;)

errlloyd · 30-09-2013 11:43PM

This is beginning to remind me of that time we had arguments over some English players who wanted to get paid more and ended up creating rugby league....

who_me · 30-09-2013 11:44PM

How To Win Friends And Influence People... not.

Threats that the other Unions. Threats to the RFU. Have they even heard of the carrot?

keps · 30-09-2013 11:44PM

errlloyd wrote: »

This is beginning to remind me of that time we had arguments over some English players who wanted to get paid more and ended up creating rugby league....

You must be very old:)

errlloyd · 30-09-2013 11:45PM

keps wrote: »

You must be very old:)

Ancient...

If we did get the D2 and Championship clubs involved and just managed to keep ERC afloat for a year or two, they'd be able to enforce their contracts and really screw with people.

TheCoolWay · 30-09-2013 11:46PM

These English clubs sure are classy

McCBrian · 30-09-2013 11:50PM

keps wrote: »

that is why I said it is important the other unions stay united.

English clubs paying English clubs week in week out - with no European dimension & with no internationals

Do not worry the Celtic/Italian are united, the FFR will bring the LNR into line and the PRL will be left to take it to court against BT why their putative (New Euroean competition is dead in the water be it an Anglo/French, world clubs SANZAR franchises/national teams from the S Pacific or Europe competition or whatever it will never receive ratification

BTW I have also vowed never to buy another Dominos Pizza as I now know who garners profits from that company;)Nigel Wray

Winters · 01-10-2013 08:10AM

I really would like that to happen but I fear it's going to go arseways.

The ERC will be dissolved and while the unions will be involved in a new European rugby structure they will become marginalised as the English and French clubs become more power hungry.

The lack of governance from the RFU is shocking. Hello, RFU, anyone home?

There is talk in today's midi Olympic that FFR might be prepared to use regions or franchises for the H Cup. Hello, Monseiur Blanco, tell me more about this Basque Rugby idea.

OldRio · 01-10-2013 09:29AM

keps wrote: »

The war is hotting up - first time a coach has come out with guns blazing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10345454/Leicester-director-of-rugby-Richard-Cockerill-warns-RFU-not-to-oppose-clubs-over-Heineken-Cup-breakaway.html

I cannot believe his arrogance( he is a pri*k anyway) - but i fear the RFU are so weak and worried about 2015 that they will fold- all the more important for the other unions to stay united.

You could kit out 15 monkeys in England colours and sell out Twickenham.
It's more to do with the occasion than the game.
This fiasco was always about power and greed, most on this thread have known that.
PRL are getting more and more panicky. Will the RFU blink first?
New balls for the RFU required?

rrpc · 01-10-2013 09:42AM

OldRio wrote: »

You could kit out 15 monkeys in England colours and sell out Twickenham.
It's more to do with the occasion than the game.
This fiasco was always about power and greed, most on this thread have known that.
PRL are getting more and more panicky. Will the RFU blink first?
New balls for the RFU required?

Even if the RFU didn't have the balls for a confrontation, the sh1t that's been thrown at them from PRL clubs has to be hardening attitudes there. It seems almost suicidal behaviour from the clubs, I can't see what can be gained from pissing off the RFU.

who the fug · 01-10-2013 09:46AM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

The thing is, though club rugby in England might not yet be more popular than international rugby, it is getting there. The view is unanimous between me and other Tigers season ticket holders, and echoed by many fans, that if there is a club v country calendar clash we would rather go to Welford road than a boring blazered twickenham. Would rather manu play for Leicester than England. The RFU knows this, knows that the clubs have the support of the fans, and that in any dispute they will come off worse than the clubs in the court of english public opinion. Puts them in a difficult position

Plus one on that , mind you never standing on the crumble again to watch LI fold

irishbucsfan · 01-10-2013 09:55AM

The RFU are firmly behind the clubs for many reasons, not just the fans. There are many selfish reasons as well. The exact same reasons the FFR have been behind the LNR and the exact same sort of selfish reasons that caused the other Unions to stick their fingers in their ears for so long. I don't see why the RFU wouldn't be behind the clubs on anything except governance.

Winters · 01-10-2013 09:56AM

Some things really pissed me off about this whole episode but the astounding amount of misinformation in the English press has been one of the most disappointing. People throwing around figures like some Pro12 teams getting €3m each from the ERC, that the attendances and revenue is declining, that the ERC have stonewalled the LNR and PRL etc.

Kudos to those rugby fans in England who have seen beyond all the spin and been able to come to their own conclusions.

Interestingly the FFR also activated the escape clause from the accord yet they are still behind the ERC.

keps · 01-10-2013 10:04AM

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/sep/30/welsh-rugby-union-heineken-cup

Shelflife · 01-10-2013 10:05AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The RFU are firmly behind the clubs for many reasons, not just the fans. There are many selfish reasons as well. The exact same reasons the FFR have been behind the LNR and the exact same sort of selfish reasons that caused the other Unions to stick their fingers in their ears for so long. I don't see why the RFU wouldn't be behind the clubs on anything except governance.

Gerry Thornley in the Times today:

"In France, the LNR chief executive Paul Goze has maintained the French clubs will not turn back and vowed that the French Federation “cannot force us to play” in the Heineken Cup, adding: “The French clubs can survive without the European Cup, but the Celtic and Italian teams cannot. Since the other competition (H Cup) will not take place, there is no alternative but to defend ours.”
However, Midi Olympique yesterday cited “several sources” in speculating that the FFR will announce, in the next few days, a hardening of its stance in opposition to the LNR’s attempts to forge a new breakaway competition and, what’s more, if the Top 14 clubs refuse to take part in the Heineken Cup, they will look to enter regional teams from outside the LNR umbrella."

It would appear that the FFR are going against the clubs here.

On a side note, if the clubs kill the international teams they will kill their own game. Internationals are the ultimate in PR. look at the amount of TV time alone that the games get, which in turn filters down to the clubs.

You only have to look a RL to see what difference a good international structure makes to the game on the ground.

The PRL remind me of the scorpion getting a lift across the river on the frogs back.........

LuckyLloyd · 01-10-2013 10:05AM

I'd love the ERC and Sky to play a little offense. Start talking to Championship and D2 in France teams / committees and put it out there as an alternative. Sky are showing Championship games this year. They could market a plucky no hope English / French side going for a scalp at home, and teams could potentially shop around for a couple of mercenary additions with the additional revenue.

If the ERC / Sky held firm to that for a year or two they could break the Premiership clubs forever. BT would probably withold large swathes of the money and the French clubs would probably look to come back after one year in the wilderness of the Anglo / French competition. They'd be forced to come back cap in hand. Again.

LuckyLloyd · 01-10-2013 10:07AM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

The thing is, though club rugby in England might not yet be more popular than international rugby, it is getting there. The view is unanimous between me and other Tigers season ticket holders, and echoed by many fans, that if there is a club v country calendar clash we would rather go to Welford road than a boring blazered twickenham. Would rather manu play for Leicester than England. The RFU knows this, knows that the clubs have the support of the fans, and that in any dispute they will come off worse than the clubs in the court of english public opinion. Puts them in a difficult position

Break International Rugby and the club game would be demolished back down to a pre professional era core level of interest. International Rugby is the big show, the HC a significant yet distant second.

Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

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