Fascinating History

crockholm · 24-09-2013 09:22PM

Earthhorse wrote: »

There's something you should know about me...

Ssshhhhh.....Don't ruin the moment:(You can tell me after.;)

Scipio didn't fare much better in the end either, after the second Punic wars ended and the euphoria faded,it was back to war,this time against Greeks and Dacians.After more victories,the people begin to idolise Scipio,and fairly rapidly he finds himself in exile where he dies.SPQR indeed.

mikemac1 · 24-09-2013 09:43PM

Dan Carlin does a great podcast called
Hardcore History

Free on iTunes or you can buy from his site which I did as it's worth supporting IMO

One of the last was about a Protestent rebellion in Munster, Germany and how charismatic leaders became Gods and could have anyone killed.
They got their commupence from the local Prince in the worst sort of torture I've ever heard!

Worth checking out, hundreds of hours of listening on all sorts of topics

wendell borton · 24-09-2013 09:51PM

theLegion wrote: »

I'd love to go back in time and see what a medieval war was like - did they really just line up against each other and charge. Seems crazy!!

They weren't that crazy at least if you were a skilled fighter you'd have a fighting chance unlike ww1 where men just ran into machine guns for 4 years for a few metres of ground.

forgotten password · 24-09-2013 09:53PM

only believe what you see what your own eyes

pharmaton · 24-09-2013 10:03PM

Love History, obsess about different periods every couple of years. When I was young my father brought me to most of the neolithic tombs and sites in the country, visited museums places of interest and went on site to a few archaeological digs. Ended up working compiling data in the city's archives and got to clean and preserve loads of old collections of journals and diaries and interesting bits and bobs..including all the paperwork for the excavations I visited almost a decade previously as a teen with my dad. I found it riveting anyway

I went through a phase for Edwardian/Victorian era more lately, probably because it was more recent but it interests me how they lived, ate, dressed, communicated..just all of it.

edit: I also have a metal detector just in case I manage to stumble across a hoard of ancient buried treasure in a field sometime.

HansHolzel · 24-09-2013 10:03PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

... a Protestent rebellion in Munster, Germany and how charismatic leaders became Gods and could have anyone killed.
They got their commupence from the local Prince in the worst sort of torture I've ever heard!

Jan of Leiden was the chief dragon in that den of iniquity, I think.

iguana · 24-09-2013 10:28PM

WW1 fascinates me as I see it as heralding in the modern age and speeding up the collapse of the empires and class system that had dominated Europe for centuries. Five massive empires entered the war, with Germany eager to establish an empire of their own and by the end three of those empires were gone, one to socialist revolution and the remaining two were fatigued and on the verge of breaking apart. While Germany had had it's own revolution but the new republic was never able to establish itself properly due to how it was penalised for it's role in the war and any chance it had was dashed by the global economic collapse at the end of the next decade.

The war had been unimaginably horrific with so much senseless death and was very likely a very significant factor in the spread of the Spanish flu that killed so many more. But it also created a situation where old societal rules broke down. Especially for the women and the poor working classes, who saw that many of the constraints they faced in their lives were completely artificial and could be changed. It lead to or sped up the occurrence of the Russian Revolutions, the general strikes of the following decades, general suffrage, a massive change to social mores, the increase of the influence of America, and increase in the amount of pleasure and freedom many within the general populations felt the should be entitled to and that we now expect, the Great Depression, the rise of European fascism, the end of the last of the great Empires, the Second World War (so much so that some historians consider both wars to be one war with a long break in the middle) and the Cold War.

WW1 also had the unofficial 1914 Christmas Truce which, Paul McCartney aside, is a fascinating moment in history. One that I like to think of, along with the Danish people's protective actions toward their Jewish population during the Nazi occupation, when I need reminding that people en masse can do fantastic things on occasion.

Capt'n Midnight · 25-09-2013 01:18AM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

You think it rains a lot in Ireland now.

Wait till you hear about 2345BC…

http://www.thejournal.ie/rainfall-ireland-noahs-flood-895386-May2013/

By looking at the soil they reckon that the Antarctic Dry Valleys haven't had any significant rainfall for the last 2 million years :eek:

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/ECE611464/danish-arctic-research-dates-ice-age/ The Ice Age ended 11,816 years ago.

The big question of pre-history, what happened to the Neanderthals ?

ScumLord · 25-09-2013 02:22PM

One of the things I find fascinating is the industrial revolution and how new many of our most dependable materials are, especially steel, it's got a pretty fascinating history. It wasn't until 1850 that they found a way to make cheap steel, before that it was a rare and expensive material, hard to work with and easy to mess up during forging and hardening ruining days of work. It's properties were so unique many people thought steel swords had magical powers.

It's incredible how dependant we've become on steel, it's a backbone of so many products and structures, and it's been around for less than 200 years. The modern world wouldn't exist without it. Skyscrapers, cars, our electronic devices, none of it would be possible without steel.

ScumLord · 25-09-2013 02:25PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The big question of pre-history, what happened to the Neanderthals ?

They kept to themselves apparently. While humans were trading with each other across continents neanderthals were staying in small family tribes. Humans just took all the available resources and I'm guessing if neanderthals attacked one human group 3 human groups would come back looking for revenge so they just avoided us and got driven out of the livable land. The major difference between humans and neanderthals seems to be trade.

who_me · 25-09-2013 03:02PM

Was also going to mention Hannibal. Only recently read in detail about his battles and strategies, he was an incredible strategist. And how he was ultimately defeated by the Romans forcing him to fight on their terms.

For a piece of "local" history, the story of Jan Janszoon - a Danish pirate captured and converted to Islam, who lead Algerian pirates to raid the coast of England, Iceland and Ireland. Over a hundred were taken as slaves at Baltimore, with only one or two ever returning back to Ireland - would love to hear an account of their lives!

The story of the Siege of Vienna - an event which helped shape (or, avoid reshaping) Europe. It also seems to me that Suleiman attacking Vienna with his Ottoman 'hordes', tunnelling under the walls to plant explosives must have been the inspiration for Tolkein, in particular the Siege of Helm's Deep.

Also reading about the Antikythera device I'm reminded how much we tend to underestimate the knowledge and sophistication of our predecessors. It is, effectively, a complex 2,000+ year old computer.

K-9 · 25-09-2013 03:05PM

o1s1n wrote: »

Far more recent (but with ties to the past!), the whole Wood Quay debacle has had my interest over the last few days. The more I read about it the angrier I get. It's amazing how we can be so flippant when it comes to our rich heritage in this country

Read a bit about that recently too, it's amazing how much of our heritage and scenic beauty are regarded as second class when making money is involved.

Always found Parnell an interesting character in interesting times, I find it very hard what to make of him.

Fratton Fred · 25-09-2013 03:23PM

wendell borton wrote: »

They weren't that crazy at least if you were a skilled fighter you'd have a fighting chance unlike ww1 where men just ran into machine guns for 4 years for a few metres of ground.

WWI, as a previous poster pointed out, is fascinating.

I don't have the stats to hand, but iirc, the vast majority of the soldiers killed, died in hand to hand trench fighting. The (fairly valid) logic was, you were probably going to survive the yomp across no man's land, but running would wear you out and lessen your chances of surviving the ensuing fight in the enemy's trench. Running also increased your chances of falling and drowning in the mud, as many did

crockholm · 25-09-2013 03:28PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Dan Carlin does a great podcast called
Hardcore History

Free on iTunes or you can buy from his site which I did as it's worth supporting IMO

One of the last was about a Protestent rebellion in Munster, Germany and how charismatic leaders became Gods and could have anyone killed.
They got their commupence from the local Prince in the worst sort of torture I've ever heard!

Worth checking out, hundreds of hours of listening on all sorts of topics

Remember reading about him in LC history,he was also left to rot in a cage on the spire of Munster Cathedral,it was years before the cage came down

Shout Dust · 25-09-2013 03:49PM

There are three main periods of history I find fascinating.

The first is the punic wars between Rome and Carthage, particularly the second one. Think what first got me into it was a demo for Age of Empires where you play as Carthage, also remember playing a game called Imperial Conquest where you could pick 1 of 16 nations around the Med at around 270BC, when things were still fairly finely balanced. Crazy to think how different the world could have been had Hannibal prevailed.

Second is the Mongols, crazy to think how nomadic horsemen from the steppes of Asia could suddenly and quickly establish a huge empire that could have stretched from the Pacific to the Atlantic was it not for a death. Amazing how the force of one man and a few skilled generals coming together at once could be so influential.

Third is WW2, and the period leading up to it, including the first world war. How different things could have been if something happened slightly different (assassination of Franz Ferdinand, attempts on Hitler, the various shifting alliances and timings). And again how someone like Hitler could lead a nation, getting voted in and taking a country crippled by Versailles and the Great Depression to controlling Europe. And how quickly things changed, both technoligically and politically, in 50 years Europe went from a few, powerful world spanning empires to second rate powers caught in the crossfire between two superpowers

HansHolzel · 25-09-2013 05:31PM

"When General Douglas MacArthur visited him in 1934, he had several conversations in which he [Atatürk] prophesied its course with uncanny insight. The period in which they were living, he believed, was no more than an armistice. For the Allies had made a conqueror's peace, without regard for the root causes of the war or the characteristics and problems of the nations defeated; the Americans had withdrawn from Europe... the Germans thus held the fate of Europe in their hands, as before. 'The moment these... people... who are industrious and disciplined and have extraordinary dynamism, get caught by a new political element which will stir up their nationalist ambitions, they will have recourse to the liquidation of the Versailles Treaty.'

The war, he predicted, would break out between 1940 and 1945. The French no longer had the qualities which made for a strong army and the British would be unable to rely on them for the defence of their island. The Italians, if they kept out of the war, could play an important part in the peace which followed it. But Mussolini's ambitions would prevent them from doing so. Thus the Germans would occupy all Europe except Russia and Britain. The Americans would be unable to remain neutral and their intervention would cause Germany's defeat. But the real victors would be the Bolsheviks..."

Atatürk, Patrick Kinross, 1964, p.463

wendell borton · 25-09-2013 08:54PM

After reading the Medici by Paul Strathern got really interested in renaissance Italy. Florence in particular, so many interesting characters were in there at that time.
The 1930's is also interesting particularly FDR in the USA and the Nazis in germany.

I am pie · 25-09-2013 09:05PM

The 20th century history of Argentina is tragic enough to make for an interesting read. Corruption, military dictatorships, foreign interference, demigogues, the lot. It's worth peeling the layers back and understanding how the Peronists, the Rural society and certain media groupings have fought a proxy war for the country.

wexandproud · 25-09-2013 09:06PM

have always had a passing interest in ww1, but was in france recently and spent a few days around the somme only when you see the cemeterys ,memorials and the huge crator left by a mine exploding on first day of battle do you realise the scale . both fascinating and sad at same time, what those lads went through

Winty · 25-09-2013 09:07PM

The story of Jesus is based on an ancient Egyptian called Horus,

1a. Jesus was conceived of a virgin. (Matthew 1:23 and Luke 1:27)
1b. Horus was conceived of a virgin. (source unknown)

2a. Jesus was the “only begotten son” of the god Yahweh. (Mark 1:11)
2b. Horus was the “only begotten son” of the god Osiris. (source unknown)

3a. The mother of Jesus was Mary. Sometimes referred to as Maria (Gospel of Mark) or Miriam.
3b. The mother of Horus was Meri. (source unknown)

4a. The foster father of Jesus was Joseph.
4b. The foster father of Horus was Seph. (chapter 29A of the Egyptian Book of the Dead)

5a. Joseph was of royal descent, being from the House of David.
5b. Seph was of royal descent. (source unknown)

6a. Jesus was born in cave. (Some accounts say Jesus was born in a manger in a barn or stable.)
6b. Horus was born in a cave. (source unknown)

7a. The coming birth of Jesus was announced to Mary by an angel. (Luke 1:34)
7b. The coming birth of Horus was announced to his mother by an angel. (source unknown)

8a. The birth of Jesus was heralded by a star in the East (where the Sun rises in the morning). (Matthew 2:2 and Matthew 2:9)
8b. The birth of Horus was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). (source unknown)

9a. Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25. (This coincides with a variety of pagan holidays, not just Horus. Most obvious, of course, is the Winter Solstice.)
9b. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on the Winter Solstice (December 21/22).

10a. The birth of Jesus was announced by an angel. (Luke Chapter 2)
10b. The birth of Horus was announced by an angel. (source unknown)

11a. Jesus was visited by shepherds at his birth. (Luke Chapter 2)
11b. Horus was visited by shepherds at his birth. (source unknown)

12a. Jesus was visited by magi (astrologers or wise men) at his birth. Tradition says there were three of them. (Matthew Chapter 2)
12b. Horus was visited by “three solar deities” art his birth. (source unknown)

13a. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have him murdered. (Matthew 2:16)
13b. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have him murdered. This may be more of a coincidence, as the Herod in the time of Jesus is a historical figure. (source unknown)

14a. To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to “arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13)
14b. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.”

15a. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15b. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored.

16a. Jesus was 12 at his coming-of-age ritual.
16b. Horus was 12 at his coming-of-age ritual.

17a. Jesus has no official recorded history between age 12 and 30.
17b. Horus has no official recorded history between age 12 and 30.

18a. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan. (Matthew 3:6, Mark 1:5)
18b. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus.

19a. Jesus was baptized at age 30.
19b. Horus was baptized at age 30.

20a. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. (Matthew, Mark and Luke)
20b. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer.

You can find out much more online

crockholm · 25-09-2013 09:53PM

Girolamo Savonarola-interesting times

HansHolzel · 25-09-2013 10:25PM

wendell borton wrote: »

After reading the Medici by Paul Strathern got really interested in renaissance Italy. Florence in particular, so many interesting characters were in there at that time.

Check out Mary McCarthy's The Stones of Florence.

HansHolzel · 25-09-2013 10:37PM

I am pie wrote: »

The 20th century history of Argentina is tragic enough to make for an interesting read.

Having looked up the detail of the mayhem in Argentina in the early to mid-Seventies, I think it’s no wonder Pope Bergoglio may just have kept his head down in the Dirty War. The Montoneros and ERP were lunatics. Just one letter about the coup by Rodolfo Walsh (29/12/76) is enough to make this clear. Sociology has a lot to answer for, given the involvement of sociologists in the violence that preceded the coup.

“The mistake that they [the Montoneros leadership] made was in not understanding at the end of 1975 the nature of the coup that was coming. It was a mistake almost generally made. Though they admitted the possibility of a coup they also kept working as if it was not going to happen. They even looked at it with some optimism, as if its main victim would be the bureaucracy in the government and not us. We didn't make any plans against the coup. In August 1975 Pancho [retired Lt. Carlos Lebrón] and I started to work on a possible response to the coup: most of all, a military response that would hold back the initial deployment, the first 48 hours. It wasn't about stopping the coup but rather about making it start wrong, with an unforeseen cost. When we spoke to Petrus [Horacio Campiglia] about it, he said to us: ‘But then you do think that there is in fact going to be a coup. That changes everything.’”

It changed nothing. On 25 March 1977, one day after publishing his Open Letter from a Writer to the Military Junta, Rodolfo Walsh was on foot near a crossroads in Buenos Aires, posting copies of this letter, when an armed group from the Navy School of Engineers ordered him to surrender. Walsh resisted with the firearm that he carried (.22 calibre) but was fatally wounded in a hail of gunfire.

losthorizon · 25-09-2013 10:58PM

iguana wrote: »

One that I like to think of, along with the Danish people's protective actions toward their Jewish population during the Nazi occupation, when I need reminding that people en masse can do fantastic things on occasion.

So actually did the Bulgarians. Its an amazing story if you ever get to read about it.

Capt'n Midnight · 26-09-2013 10:53AM

losthorizon wrote: »

So actually did the Bulgarians. Its an amazing story if you ever get to read about it.

If you ever wonder why some people are upset about privacy issues re facebook and google you need only look at what has already happened to the Dutch Jews and the use of IBM equipment to speed up paperwork.

Most recently during the Arab spring (in Tunisia ?) they blocked https (secure) traffic so some people dropped back to http (insecure) for facebook and email which could be monitored.

--Kaiser-- · 26-09-2013 11:12AM

Winty wrote: »

The story of Jesus is based on an ancient Egyptian called Horus,

1a. Jesus was conceived of a virgin. (Matthew 1:23 and Luke 1:27)
1b. Horus was conceived of a virgin. (source unknown)

2a. Jesus was the “only begotten son” of the god Yahweh. (Mark 1:11)
2b. Horus was the “only begotten son” of the god Osiris. (source unknown)

3a. The mother of Jesus was Mary. Sometimes referred to as Maria (Gospel of Mark) or Miriam.
3b. The mother of Horus was Meri. (source unknown)

4a. The foster father of Jesus was Joseph.
4b. The foster father of Horus was Seph. (chapter 29A of the Egyptian Book of the Dead)

5a. Joseph was of royal descent, being from the House of David.
5b. Seph was of royal descent. (source unknown)

6a. Jesus was born in cave. (Some accounts say Jesus was born in a manger in a barn or stable.)
6b. Horus was born in a cave. (source unknown)

7a. The coming birth of Jesus was announced to Mary by an angel. (Luke 1:34)
7b. The coming birth of Horus was announced to his mother by an angel. (source unknown)

8a. The birth of Jesus was heralded by a star in the East (where the Sun rises in the morning). (Matthew 2:2 and Matthew 2:9)
8b. The birth of Horus was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). (source unknown)

9a. Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25. (This coincides with a variety of pagan holidays, not just Horus. Most obvious, of course, is the Winter Solstice.)
9b. Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on the Winter Solstice (December 21/22).

10a. The birth of Jesus was announced by an angel. (Luke Chapter 2)
10b. The birth of Horus was announced by an angel. (source unknown)

11a. Jesus was visited by shepherds at his birth. (Luke Chapter 2)
11b. Horus was visited by shepherds at his birth. (source unknown)

12a. Jesus was visited by magi (astrologers or wise men) at his birth. Tradition says there were three of them. (Matthew Chapter 2)
12b. Horus was visited by “three solar deities” art his birth. (source unknown)

13a. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have him murdered. (Matthew 2:16)
13b. After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have him murdered. This may be more of a coincidence, as the Herod in the time of Jesus is a historical figure. (source unknown)

14a. To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to “arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.” (Matthew 2:13)
14b. To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.”

15a. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15b. When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored.

16a. Jesus was 12 at his coming-of-age ritual.
16b. Horus was 12 at his coming-of-age ritual.

17a. Jesus has no official recorded history between age 12 and 30.
17b. Horus has no official recorded history between age 12 and 30.

18a. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan. (Matthew 3:6, Mark 1:5)
18b. Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus.

19a. Jesus was baptized at age 30.
19b. Horus was baptized at age 30.

20a. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist. (Matthew, Mark and Luke)
20b. Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer.

You can find out much more online

Actually, most of this is not true. There are similar claims of parallels between Jesus and Mithras but most of them are inaccurate or fabricated also

herisson · 26-09-2013 11:39AM

I love Irish History. In particular the period from the Lockout to the Civil War. I studied it in college and what I found interesting about it was the fact that there were so many women involved with them. Not just with the secondary role of caring for volunteers, but some had an active role in the fighting.

Margaret Skinnider for example was a sniper at the Royal College of Surgeons, under the command of Michael Malin and Countess Markievicz. She also came up with the elaborate plot of throwing a bomb through a window in the Shelbourne Hotel, but was injured when she and others had to take down a sniper on a nearby roof. The ground floor was completed protected and they were ambushed.

I also really like the renaissance and Roman history too. And the Holocaust and the French Revolution. But Irish History is what I love the most.

Wibbs · 26-09-2013 11:50AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Actually, most of this is not true. There are similar claims of parallels between Jesus and Mithras but most of them are inaccurate or fabricated also

Yep pretty much every single thing in that list concerning Horus is not found anywhere in the literature on him. it's complete and utter nonsense historically, but seems to be eagerly accepted by many. The number of "sources unknown" should give the game away for even the most lazy reader. Horus baptised? I mean come on :pac: One of the best comparisons I've read on the subject was around the time of that "Zeitgeist" youtube video. It seems to have been devised for the woefully uninformed and gullible. It made a word comparison between the "sun" god and the "son" of god. Eh that only works in english you fool a language that wasn't exactly around at the time. :pac:

gobnaitolunacy · 26-09-2013 11:54AM

Pixie-Fairy wrote: »

I love Irish History. In particular the period from the Lockout to the Civil War.

I find it interesting too, unfortunately, it's the one period where people get the most worked up and bitchy about. History/Heritage forum is full to the brim of handbagging matches.

suicide_circus · 26-09-2013 11:56AM

Europe 800 - 1500
Great to read about but I wouldn't want to live then. Grim as fook and life expectancy short.

Fascinating History

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