The holocaust happened

wendell borton · 25-09-2013 08:32AM #1

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has called the holocaust a crime against jews which is a big change from Ahmadinejad who called it a myth.

Maybe now Iran can move away from its posturing against Israel and play a productive part in a peace process in the middle east. The west of course also has to remove sanctions against iran. The west has also shown hypocrisy while being in bed with vile regimes and monarchies and talking about democracy they place sanctions on a somewhat democratic country.

Lad Of Banter · 25-09-2013 08:41AM

well if he said it happened, then I'm convinced

--Kaiser-- · 25-09-2013 08:47AM

The sanctions have really ****ed up Iran and he knows it. He's trying to play nice to end the diplomatic isolation. He has no real power, Ayatollah Khameini remains the real ruler of Iran

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 08:48AM

I never quite understand some of this mob. They will claim 9/11 was a great day one minute, the next minute they claim it was an Israeli operation to justify war against them. They will claim Hitler was a great man, then claim his attributed actions which they admire didn't actually occur

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 08:50AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

He has no real power, Ayatollah Khameini remains the real ruler of Iran

Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi, even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmara and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power :eek: :pac:

oblivious · 25-09-2013 08:52AM

[QUOTESunglasses Ron;86705798]I never quite understand some of this mob. They will claim 9/11 was a great day one minute, the next minute they claim it was an Israeli operation to justify war against them. They will claim Hitler was a great man, then claim his attributed actions which they admire didn't actually occur

[/QUOTE]

That's politicians for you

conorhal · 25-09-2013 08:58AM

Yeah it happened, the ony problem with Iran is that they wish it would happen again.

TeddyTedson · 25-09-2013 09:19AM

Sure Hitler couldn't of been that bad, sure our Taoiseach signed the book of condolences after his death.

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 09:39AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Sure Hitler couldn't of been that bad, sure our Taoiseach signed the book of condolences after his death.

As a technically neutral state (although in practice we leaned more towards helping the US) and considering at the time he was not a convicted war criminal it would be customary for us to do so for a serving leader from a nearby country.

TeddyTedson · 25-09-2013 09:42AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

As a technically neutral state (although in practice we leaned more towards helping the US) and considering at the time he was not a convicted war criminal it would be customary for us to do so for a serving leader from a nearby country.

Wouldn't that be the case for the rest of the nearby neutral countries too?

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 09:49AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Wouldn't that be the case for the rest of the nearby neutral countries too?

The only ones of any size were Spain, Portugal, Switzerland and Sweden as to my knowledge. I would wager the Spanish fascists certainly expressed commiserations. Vladimir Putin has violated more human rights laws than you can shake a stick at but he would still get an official acknowledgement from us if he died today.

biko · 25-09-2013 10:03AM

wendell borton wrote: »

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has called the holocaust a crime against jews which is a big change from Ahmadinejad who called it a myth.

I'm happy to hear that. Iran is a powerhouse in the region and for anyone with power to even take this small step towards Israel is great.
At the end of the day he'd probably wouldn't hesitate to erase Israel if he thought he could get away with it. Acknowledging Nazis killed Jews isn't the same as accepting Israel.

Oink · 25-09-2013 10:14AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I never quite understand some of this mob. They will claim 9/11 was a great day one minute, the next minute they claim it was an Israeli operation to justify war against them. They will claim Hitler was a great man, then claim his attributed actions which they admire didn't actually occur

You've just discovered realpolitik :-)

In a democracy things need to make sense (to some extent). In Kalashnikov-based regimes the "truth" is more accommodating.

EDIT: @Biko. Agreed. We are one step closer to agreeing on the same version of the facts, so that's good.

AnonoBoy · 25-09-2013 10:16AM

That new Iran lad seems dead nice.

25-09-2013 10:18AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Sure Hitler couldn't of been that bad, sure our Taoiseach signed the book of condolences after his death.

Didn't Hitler send a letter of apology to deValera after the Germans accidentally bombed Ireland during the Blitz?

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 25-09-2013 10:21AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

As a technically neutral state (although in practice we leaned more towards helping the US) and considering at the time he was not a convicted war criminal it would be customary for us to do so for a serving leader from a nearby country.

That's crap and you know it, did the Swiss, the Swedes or any of the other Neutrals do any such thing?:mad:

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 10:24AM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

That's crap and you know it, did the Swiss, the Swedes or any of the other Neutrals do any such thing?:mad:

At a guess I would say that any country that had not expelled the German ambassador probably did, yes. There were plenty of elements in Switzerland involved in war profiteering and silent collaboration with fleeing war criminals for a start. Churchill threatened to invade us to force our co operation and yet, as neutrals, we likely would have extended condolences to him if he died in office as well. I would be fairly sure the Germans had an active embassy in Sweden and Switzerland throughout the war (if you want to avoid being invaded it is prudent to have reps of the potential aggressors in the country to talk to!) and therefore it is highly likely said ambassadors would have received official state condolences.

Tony EH · 25-09-2013 10:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't Hitler send a letter of apology to deValera after the Germans accidentally bombed Ireland during the Blitz?

Yes. As gaeilge too.

Kiwi in IE · 25-09-2013 11:07AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Sure Hitler couldn't of been that bad, sure our Taoiseach signed the book of condolences after his death.

Really? I didn't know that. The Taoiseach sent official condolences after the death of HITLER?

Tony EH · 25-09-2013 11:08AM

Did Ahmadinejad actually say that the holocaust was a myth though?

I wouldn't be so sure.

For years, the nonsense about him supposedly saying that "Israel should be wiped off the map" was touted around the world as fact, by certain quarters. However, such an idiom doesn't even exist in the Persian tongue.

It IS, though, a common phrase in American English, and first appeared in the New York Times in regard to his speech in 2005. Perhaps deliberately so.

The actual words that Ahmadinejad said was that "...the regime in Tel Aviv will disappear from the pages of time"

Not only is that a million miles away from "wipe Israel off the map", they aren't even his words. He was quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini and it was a rather off the cuff remark. But one that was twisted and used as a stick to beat both him and Iran with for years.

So, with those words being twisted for political purposes, one is forced to wonder what else has been tweaked.

Ahmadinejad's main problem is that he's remained deliberately obtuse about issues. This is a political mechanisation designed to appeal to both moderates and the hardliners in Iran. But such moves leaves him open to attack.

Perhaps Rouhani will play a better game with the west.

Tony EH · 25-09-2013 11:10AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Really? I didn't know that. The Taoiseach sent official condolences after the death of HITLER?

So did Sweden. So did Switzerland and other neutral nations too AFAIR.

It was a standard practice.

wes · 25-09-2013 11:19AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I never quite understand some of this mob. They will claim 9/11 was a great day one minute, the next minute they claim it was an Israeli operation to justify war against them. They will claim Hitler was a great man, then claim his attributed actions which they admire didn't actually occur

Erm, its a new guy...... Maybe, just maybe he has different views from the last guy. [sarcasm]I know people having different opinions on things is strange and clearly unlikely thing......[/sarcasm]

Its good to see that the new Iranian President is making some changes, and is on the whole a lot better than the last guy.

Kiwi in IE · 25-09-2013 11:21AM

It seems that it would have been more appropriate to refrain from sending condolences under the circumstances. Neutral or not.

wes · 25-09-2013 11:23AM

Tony EH wrote: »

So, with those words being twisted for political purposes, one is forced to wonder what else has been tweaked.

Well, looks like some people in this thread are already pretty much saying the new guys wants to wipe Israel off the map, and he hasn't even said anything of the sort:

biko wrote: »

At the end of the day he'd probably wouldn't hesitate to erase Israel if he thought he could get away with it.

So it looks like nothing needs to be said at all for some people to make up there minds about Iran.

Conall Cernach · 25-09-2013 11:32AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Really? I didn't know that. The Taoiseach sent official condolences after the death of HITLER?

Well Hitler wasn't all bad he did shoot Hitler after all.

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 11:33AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

It seems that it would have been more appropriate to refrain from sending condolences under the circumstances. Neutral or not.

Being neutral is just that, publicly at least. It doesn't involve public declarations of "we're neutral but technically we are with the US on this one" even if that was our unwritten policy (not to mention that publicly assisting Britain in a war of any type so soon after the post 1916 struggle would have been political suicide). And snubbing the ambassador of a country we maintained cordial, if cautious diplomatic relations with would be exactly that. The likes of Saddam and Gaddafi were already deposed at the time of their death and so didn't warrant any official commiserations. Not to mention that at the time it was barely even confirmed exactly how much of the Nazi brutality was official policy from the top down. It is not like today when phone video of a Syrian war crime is on Twitter within an hour. Back then really all that was known was hearsay and conjecture.

Elbaston · 25-09-2013 11:41AM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

That's crap and you know it, did the Swiss, the Swedes or any of the other Neutrals do any such thing?:mad:

Oh what a god awful crime ... oh the people of Ireland, nazi's the lot of us.

A letter of condolence to the German people - the shame.
Sure it was only Dev but we all had a part in it.
Long may it be used by unionists and grovellers as some kind of lame, pedantic, semi inference towards something that plainly wasn't the case.

Jonny7 · 25-09-2013 11:44AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Did Ahmadinejad actually say that the holocaust was a myth though?

It's not so much that he publicly denied the Holocaust, it was that he was always questioning it, creating forums, inviting others to "question" it.

As far as I remember he never tried to question the number of Soviet POWs or minorities systematically killed - which is typically a dead giveaway to the underlying agenda

He (like Chavez) showed an aptitude for outlandish theories which played well with the nationalist crowd.

Polls show 40+ % of people in certain Middle Eastern countries do not believe the Holocaust happened (not surprising considering the attitude toward Jews in the region)

GerB40 · 25-09-2013 11:45AM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi, even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmara and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power :eek: :pac:

You quoted the Simpsons in a discussion about Iran/The Holocaust. You win the internet...

TeddyTedson · 25-09-2013 11:46AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't Hitler send a letter of apology to deValera after the Germans accidentally bombed Ireland during the Blitz?

Quite possibly, I'm not entirely sure.

Weird that he had a bit of a soft spot for the Irish.

Sunglasses Ron · 25-09-2013 11:50AM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

That's crap and you know it, did the Swiss, the Swedes or any of the other Neutrals do any such thing?:mad:

Additionally, come to think of it pre war it was commonplace for visiting sports teams or athletes to Nazi salute the crowds at matches as a mark of respect, nearly certain there is a photo of the England national team doing it. I suppose it was a bit like teams standing and accepting the Haka dance at them.

GerB40 wrote: »

You quoted the Simpsons in a discussion about Iran/The Holocaust. You win the internet...

Heh heh heh, now they'll never save your brain, Hitler!

The holocaust happened

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