Premiership Rugby out of Heineken Cup?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

This may seem very simplistic but if the celtic regions said they're willing to agree to a qualification based HC structure would all this go away?

It was never about qualification. The rabo teams should've compromised on that much earlier though, to call the bluff of the English Clubs.

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

it is looking increasingly like this is a lost cause

With that in mind the weaker unions in Europe (and not just the Celtic & Italian ones) need to start looking at ways to strategically counteract the massive imbalance in resources that this will potentially leave in the long run.

Sky & the IRB are crucial to this. Either will not want to loose complete control of European rugby, but unless we're all to just give up and join this new monstrosity called the "Champions Cup" :rolleyes: we have to offer something tangible to the existing stakeholders to keep them on board and preserve the prospect (at least) of the smaller unions remaining competitive in mid term.

As an idea, what would people think of a massive expansion and split of the PRO12 into 2 leagues? at type of PRO12 east and PRO12 west, with the addition of teams from Georgia, Russia & Romania to the Italians in the East and the addition of a Spanish and Portuguese team to the PRO12 west with the Celtic teams?

I appreciate this would be a massive undertaking and would substantially weaken both conferences in the short term, but it would add significant new markets to the European game and in the medium term might help to balance off the power of the French & English. The 2 leagues would cooperate extensively on resources and sponsorship/TV rights, but essentially operate independently of each other in the regular season but come together in a new Heineken Cup to satisfy the need for European competition..

In the short term, The IRB would need to financially support the new teams, but this would both be in their interest, and satisfy their mandate of growing the game into new markets, and if SKY could be convinced to stay on board and take the fight to BT, well, who knows?

Honestly think some major "outside the box" thinking is going to be needed to prevent a major destabilization of European Rugby in this new reality. Then again, I could be just delirious.

Deleted User wrote: »

relevant quote?

Pretty much everything he has said has been in support of Premiership Rugby. I don't think he's come out with a single thing that hasn't been, beyond saying they wouldn't support the new competition until they saw the details.

His last quote was

"The objectives are clear. We want to see a meritocratic competition - not only in terms of the competitive element but also financial distribution - we need to achieve that," he said.

He added: "It strikes me, the definition of a European competition means you have got to have most of Europe participating - so our view is that we would seek to achieve a European competition that involves clubs from Scotland, Wales, Ireland France and Italy. We are all trying to grow the game, and if there is an opportunity for people to aspire to get into that then that to me seems like a perfectly sensible thing."

"The RFU objective in this is a meritocratic comp that embraces all of Europe and that we find the right balance between those parties," he said. "Obviously it is important for our clubs in England and we want to support them. But it is also important for the game that there is a recognition that all of Europe needs to be involved and what we are trying to do is facilitate that," said Ritchie, who revealed he is working on a daily basis to try and bring about a resolution.

"Is it occasionally fraught? Challenging? Difficult? All of the above," he said. "I actually believe everyone has the same objective. There may be different routes, different small print - that are significant and important - but the overall objective is what we need to get to. I understand the difficulties but we are there to see if we can help bring the end objective about."

Despite the apparent gloom apparently jeopardising the future of Heineken Cup, Ritchie remains hopeful that a deal can be done to secure the competition's long-term future. "You are ever-optimistic," he said. "There are passionate, strongly-held views on all sides and I totally get that. I am ever the optimist. I also think it is sensible for all of us to get to that end conclusion - everyone recognises that, it's just a matter of which path. I hope and believe we will get to that."

That's a very long way from opposing the new tournament. I think the only way the new tournament is opposed is if it is purely Anglo-French and there is an alternative. There would be legal implications with opposing it otherwise.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ritchie can easily, and I mean easily agree that change is necessary, yet be totally against a new competition with Clubs in control. (There are many on here that would be of that viewpoint)

Do you know what the proposed governance of the new competition is?

Macy0161 wrote: »

It was never about qualification. The rabo teams should've compromised on that much earlier though, to call the bluff of the English Clubs.

Winters wrote: »

Maybe they did, we don't know.

I'd be 99% sure that there was no such early compromise. There was never even a hint of it in anything the IRFU said, even reading between the lines.

Also informative to read justindees posts at the start of the thread - whilst he's by no means in the inner circle of the IRFU it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that his thought process was similar to the relevant people in the IRFU.
And his posts are full of 'competition structure is perfect as it is, no change needed', 'their unions wont allow them to move', 'freeze the English out like before and they'll break', 'binding tv contracts until 2018', 'us good, them bad' stuff.
Nothing there suggests a mood of compromise in the IRFU. I suspect they thought they had a much stronger hand than they did.

Deleted User wrote: »

1 - A new tournament. Such as has been proposed this week "Champions Cup"

2 - Ritchie has been quoted as saying that he would be against this. Something along the lines of ' Europe does not mean England and France '.

OK, well I think in the press at times they've taken "breakaway" to mean a tournament not including the other nations, which isn't really a possibility imo.

But as for any other tournament, Ritchie hasn't come out in support of one, but his statement was:

"We are, and always have been, supportive of the Premiership clubs seeking greater meritocracy across the competitions and appropriate financial distribution. It is also important to ensure that rugby across Europe continues to thrive and grow. In terms of authorising any future competition, it is critical to see all the confirmed details before being able to assess its merits.

"In order to find a successful conclusion, we are urging discussions to be held with an open mind, with a view to compromise on both sides. We will continue to work with urgency behind closed doors to ensure a consensus is reached that will benefit all parties."

I trust Ritchie, I think he's a sharp cookie. If he comes out firmly against the new tournament then I think there'd be a good reason for it.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I believe JP Lux actually came out suggesting something similar recently although I haven't seen it myself.

Only his mates call him JP!

I wonder who first thought of the BT TV deal including European games, BT or PRL?