New Forest Sold?

Arsenium · 30-07-2013 12:30PM #1

Hello,

There have been rumours about the sale of New Forest recently. I was wondering if anyone knew for definite? I've played there a few times and I have to say I love the course. I would be sad to see it closing up or being allowed to run down. Even though it was in NAMA the course was always still in great nick and I often imagined how fabulous it would have been had the collapse not happened.

Then again I would probably have never got to play it if the collapse had not happened !!

If its sold I wonder what the plans are by the new owners.

Rikand · 30-07-2013 12:43PM

there's a lot of great farmland there!

I dont know if this is true or not, but a couple of years ago when there was talk of new forest being sold, it was by a group of local farmers going to buy it to turn it into farmland. Not sure if that was ever followed through on though.

I have a few friends who are members there so I'll ring and see if they heard anything

charlieIRL · 30-07-2013 12:49PM

it was sold alright, a few weeks ago and will remain open as a golf course.

Arsenium · 30-07-2013 01:11PM

charlieIRL wrote: »

it was sold alright, a few weeks ago and will remain open as a golf course.

I wonder how they plan to move it forward. The running costs of a place like New Forest must be huge. The massive house, the apartments (I presume all unoccupied), the course, clubhouse, restaurant etc. They'll need to attract a lot of members and a lot of green fees to turn it around.

Would they make it into a members owned club or run it privately?

Green fees are generally only around the 20 mark in the place. So it's hard to see how that is going to contribute towards making it profitable.

charlieIRL · 30-07-2013 01:19PM

i've never got it for €20!!

Needs a good few euro spend on the apartments etc alright but the course is in fantastic condition. We stayed for a few beers and food after our last round there (food was excellent and very reasonable BTW).

mag · 30-07-2013 01:27PM

charlieIRL wrote: »

i've never got it for €20!!

http://www.brsgolf.com/newforest/opens_home.php

Arsenium · 30-07-2013 01:44PM

mag wrote: »

http://www.brsgolf.com/newforest/opens_home.php

And the last few times I played it we had picked up those offers for a 4 ball for 36 euros.

I know a few guys who joined it this year. They are all pretty impressed with the set up and especially in regards to the pro shop and offers / lessons etc.

I dont know what number of members they have. A few years ago it would have suited me to join as I was working down that direction. But a few years ago you'd need to be Donald Trump to join.

charlieIRL · 30-07-2013 02:19PM

mag wrote: »

http://www.brsgolf.com/newforest/opens_home.php

ahh right, never played an open day there - was always a casual round with friends.

Russman · 30-07-2013 06:22PM

charlieIRL wrote: »

ahh right, never played an open day there - was always a casual round with friends.

Generally if you ring them they'll give a good price. I've had a few casual games where we called the day before or the morning of the game and they were very friendly - basically along the lines of "ahh, its quiet enough, I'll do it for €12 per head" or something like that.

Superb course BTW, really, really good layout.

slave1 · 31-07-2013 02:55AM

Tough track, hard to keep the round together and when it's windy much tougher, that feckin par 3 has been anything from a 9 to a driver and has the maddest undulations, if the pin is the far side of the green then good luck!

Arsenium · 31-07-2013 10:53AM

slave1 wrote: »

Tough track, hard to keep the round together and when it's windy much tougher, that feckin par 3 has been anything from a 9 to a driver and has the maddest undulations, if the pin is the far side of the green then good luck!

Yep. I played it one day with the pin at the front, hit an 8 iron and hit the back part of the green. Rollercoaster putt from the back to the front.

Another day, with the wind against, I hit a driver as you say, just through the narrow part at the front of the green. Crazy hole. Comes at just the right time (or wrong time) to possibly wreck your card.

slave1 · 20-09-2013 12:50PM

They have an ad in this week's paper, full membership from now to Jan 2015 for €550+levies

sydneybound · 20-09-2013 12:55PM

slave1 wrote: »

They have an ad in this week's paper, full membership from now to Jan 2015 for €550+levies

Great but crazy price. How they even break even charging that I don't know. If I lived in the area would be delighted to pay that sort of cash.

percy212 · 20-09-2013 12:58PM

I predict wind turbines.

slave1 · 20-09-2013 01:27PM

Yeah, great course but long and tough, given my distance from it, it would just not be feasible given daylight hours in April/May/Sept/Oct to get anything decent in after work plus longer traveling time etc, shame

slave1 · 20-09-2013 01:28PM

percy212 wrote: »

I predict wind turbines.

Doubt it given EU 10X guidelines, a large commercial turbine would need 1.5km clearance of any dwelling minimum

mike12 · 20-09-2013 02:38PM

sydneybound wrote: »

Great but crazy price. How they even break even charging that I don't know. If I lived in the area would be delighted to pay that sort of cash.

I wonder how much it costs to run a club like this at break even.
If they got 400 members at that price would €220,000 go close to covering costs. Then you make your profit on Green fees.
It's a good course and hope it survives.

Mike

Unglika Norse · 20-09-2013 06:20PM

mike12 wrote: »

I wonder how much it costs to run a club like this at break even.
If they got 400 members at that price would €220,000 go close to covering costs. Then you make your profit on Green fees.
It's a good course and hope it survives.

Mike

Double that and you would be about right.

slave1 · 20-09-2013 09:28PM

Agreed, would need to be generating strong positive cash flow before profit though, cash is still King!

sydneybound · 20-09-2013 10:18PM

mike12 wrote: »

I wonder how much it costs to run a club like this at break even.
If they got 400 members at that price would €220,000 go close to covering costs. Then you make your profit on Green fees.
It's a good course and hope it survives.

Mike

I'd say about 500,000 at a guess when your talking about green keeping staff, regular machine costs and different chemicals for greens (sprays) which can be extremely expensive. It would be a great achievement if New Forest got about 200 full members.

Unglika Norse · 20-09-2013 10:48PM

sydneybound wrote: »

I'd say about 500,000 at a guess when your talking about green keeping staff, regular machine costs and different chemicals for greens (sprays) which can be extremely expensive. It would be a great achievement if New Forest got about 200 full members.

If New forest only attracts 200 full members they will be in a difficult place. They would in my opinion then need to turn 15000 rounds of golf per year @ e20 to break even on running cost. 50 green fees a day Is this feasible or doable, hard to know.

It is again my opinion the membership fee is set at a rate at which they hope to pull from established clubs, Already it would appear that Des Morgan has jumped ship at Mullingar to become Director of Golf at New Forest. They are attracting existing members from other clubs but I believe at a very slow rate, they are not generating new business or people new to golf.

This would lead me to think that if the migration of existing club members is in large quantities, a situation that New Forest are hoping for, existing clubs will then be in the difficult position of trying to maintain standards with reduced income. There is now no way that these existing clubs will now be in a position to reduce the fees currently charged, or that will compound their position.

This is similar to the position of Knockanally & Kilcock who have according to my information lost large numbers to Moyvalley just down the road, which has put them in jeopardy.

Bit of a quandary

slave1 · 20-09-2013 11:56PM

Good post, I play it a few times a year, not a hope of it getting 50 green fees any day I've been there, again good synopsis there.

GreeBo · 21-09-2013 12:02AM

sydneybound wrote: »

I'd say about 500,000 at a guess when your talking about green keeping staff, regular machine costs and different chemicals for greens (sprays) which can be extremely expensive. It would be a great achievement if New Forest got about 200 full members.

Wages would eat 500k before you have even started to look at the usual operating expenses.
If you think of it, thats only 5 people at 50k...take away a head greenkeeper, sec manager, thats probbly 350k left for all of your staff and you will have 2-3 more ground staff (60k if you have kids at 20k/year) (290k) bar staff, pro, catering, secretary? Add pension, health, etc for staff + insurance, bank fees and you havent bought a drop of fuel or a bucket of sand yet.
Hard to see it as viable to any high standard imo.

Unglika Norse · 21-09-2013 12:18AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Wages would eat 500k before you have even started to look at the usual operating expenses.
If you think of it, thats only 5 people at 50k...take away a head greenkeeper, sec manager, thats probbly 350k left for all of your staff and you will have 2-3 more ground staff (60k if you have kids at 20k/year) (290k) bar staff, pro, catering, secretary? Add pension, health, etc for staff + insurance, bank fees and you havent bought a drop of fuel or a bucket of sand yet.
Hard to see it as viable to any high standard imo.

Good points, I was simply looking at the course at a basic level for this type of high maintenance proposition,

FixdePitchmark · 21-09-2013 12:22AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Wages would eat 500k before you have even started to look at the usual operating expenses.
If you think of it, thats only 5 people at 50k...take away a head greenkeeper, sec manager, thats probbly 350k left for all of your staff and you will have 2-3 more ground staff (60k if you have kids at 20k/year) (290k) bar staff, pro, catering, secretary? Add pension, health, etc for staff + insurance, bank fees and you havent bought a drop of fuel or a bucket of sand yet.
Hard to see it as viable to any high standard imo.

Id say the wages in golf courses will drop from above. Average industrial wage is 43 K.

Sad to say that, but couldnt see 5 people at 50 K

charlieIRL · 21-09-2013 07:21PM

Whoever bought it must have done the maths and see it as a viable investment. Hope it stays open as its a course I love playing....actually anyone fancy a round there in the next few weeks?

GreeBo · 21-09-2013 07:40PM

charlieIRL wrote: »

Whoever bought it must have done the maths and see it as a viable investment. Hope it stays open as its a course I love playing....actually anyone fancy a round there in the next few weeks?

hopefully, but you have to sacrifice something to run a course for that money, otherwise everyone would.
I'd hope it's not the course itself, but that's the most expensive but. we put down 900 tonnes of sand this week on the course after pole forking, will the new owner consider that worth it, even though it damages short term green fees for the end of the season?

charlieIRL · 21-09-2013 08:53PM

GreeBo wrote: »

hopefully, but you have to sacrifice something to run a course for that money, otherwise everyone would.
I'd hope it's not the course itself, but that's the most expensive but. we put down 900 tonnes of sand this week on the course after pole forking, will the new owner consider that worth it, even though it damages short term green fees for the end of the season?

Played there twice just before it was sold and it was in good condition with whatever budget they had. Shame to see the apartments so dilapidated so hopefully something will be done with them eventually.

Felloffmebike · 23-09-2013 11:39PM

I have a 4 ball voucher valid to the end of the year. Or at least it was. Wonder if they will honour it now...

blackwhite · 24-09-2013 06:04PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Id say the wages in golf courses will drop from above. Average industrial wage is 43 K.

Sad to say that, but couldnt see 5 people at 50 K

They won't be getting paid €50k each, but when you factor in the additional costs of employing someone (i.e. pension, employers' PRSI) then an employee getting €43k would easily end up costing €50k to the employer.

borntobike · 01-10-2013 04:37PM

The Maths do not add up at all. A good golf course costs up to €700k per annum to run, ie €2k per day if you consider Wages, insurance, rates, machinery, sand, chemicals, light, heat, admin etc.
The green fee market is dead in the water due to open singles.
More people will start to join clubs of convenience like Blessington Lakes for 200 euro and then play opens.

New Forest Sold?

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