Derry and Donegal rail campaigners can forget about it

monument · 15-09-2013 9:43pm #1

From the Londonderry Sentinel:

No Donegal rail link until 2030 at least

CAMPAIGNERS for a re-opening of the rail connection between Londonderry and Donegal can forget about it until 2030 at least, according to Rail Minister Danny Kennedy.

AngryLips · 15-09-2013 11:08pm

Poor Derry, continually neglected by both administrations

Banjoxed · 15-09-2013 11:44pm

AngryLips wrote: »

Poor Derry, continually neglected by both administrations

Focusing on the positive, Derry's rail line is safe and has a huge uptake in usage due to good rolling stock and the successful relay, to the extent that the 1980 station in Derry is inadequate for demand.

Northern Ireland has had a remarkable turnaround for the railways in recent years, the line from Ballymena onwards could easily have been lost but a grassroots "Save our Railways" and the effective "Into the West" lobby plus crucially the uptake in demand in recent years ensured that the railway to Derry was saved.

A good position for the railway to be in after all the years of uncertainty, especially since the North has no rail freight at all and has even more embedded a car culture than the Republic. No general free travel either..

MGWR · 16-09-2013 2:42am

monument wrote: »

From the Londonderry Sentinel:

No Donegal rail link until 2030 at least

CAMPAIGNERS for a re-opening of the rail connection between Londonderry and Donegal can forget about it until 2030 at least, according to Rail Minister Danny Kennedy. ...

Time for someone to lose his job. Perhaps the Rail Overlord Minister?

dowlingm · 16-09-2013 3:45am

About time that nonsense was stamped on. It never made sense to me - a parity of esteem exercise with no convenient alignment to take advantage of.

corktina · 16-09-2013 10:29am

it doesn't make sense....the way to fulfil this is a shuttle bus from L'kenny to meet every train at Derry, if that doesn't already exist.

end of the road · 16-09-2013 5:10pm

northern ireland is lucky in some ways, the ulster transport authority could have stolen the lot, this shower made sure they took more railway down with them when they knew their time was up

cdebru · 16-09-2013 10:17pm

dowlingm wrote: »

About time that nonsense was stamped on. It never made sense to me - a parity of esteem exercise with no convenient alignment to take advantage of.

Could it not just follow the old alignment ? Or is that gone ?

Copyerselveson · 17-09-2013 1:38am

dowlingm wrote: »

About time that nonsense was stamped on. It never made sense to me - a parity of esteem exercise with no convenient alignment to take advantage of.

The Letterkenny to Derry rail link scored two points less than Athenry to Tuam on the Study for IE. The detailed scores weren't given in the report as far as I know. New railways do not need to follow old alignments. Much of the old CDR and Swilly alignments are built over and land will need to be purchased anyway. It's not a a problem for motorways, so it should not be a problem for a railway.

I'm curious how campaigns for railways get stamped on. Do you single out the campaigners in a pub somewhere and trample them? Sounds like a needlessly aggressive thing to do to be honest.

dowlingm · 18-09-2013 4:04am

I'd put that particular study in the same category as the spatial strategy.I spent a while about 8 months ago poring over satellite images of various approaches to Derry from Letterkenny and couldn't find one which seemed easy to implement and given the likely update it would want to be VERY easy.

18-09-2013 8:18am

Copyerselveson wrote: »

I'm curious how campaigns for railways get stamped on. Do you single out the campaigners in a pub somewhere and trample them? Sounds like a needlessly aggressive thing to do to be honest.

No one's figured out how to kill off a grassroots campaign for/against a railway, though people here *really* tried, and the campaign *really* tried to stop them in return. Best that can be done is to ignore the crazy ranters and examine the issue at hand.

Now, as for the idea of rerailing to Letterkenny, I'm not sure. Flights are the most viable option from Dublin, but I'd say it would only make sense to go from Derry down to Sligo altogether, for Derry-Lkenny-Donegal-Sligo. As of right now, the case for *that* is very slim, but perhaps in 2030 costs would be such to make it viable. I would say it'd get a better return than just a spur to NI. tourists go for scenic train journeys, and a Dublin-Sligo-Donegal-Derry-Belfast-Dublin would definitely get that traffic.

Still, as of right now, Donegal rail is a no go.

corktina · 18-09-2013 8:25am

that's pure fantasy. here is no demand for rail traffic between sligo and donegal/letterkenny/Derry that a Coach couldn't satisfy and probably does right now. Why would anyone even dream of investing billions for so little return?

18-09-2013 8:29am

corktina wrote: »

*ignored text*here is no demand for rail traffic between sligo and donegal/letterkenny/Derry that a Coach couldn't satisfy and probably does right now*ignored text*

Like I said, 2030. Right now, I'm agreeing with you. Railing Derry-Sligo would not be cost effective in this day and age.

All I'm saying is that if the case for letterkenny rail one day became viable, it would be far more viable to make the round loop that would open up NI to the Irish midlands, and Donegal to the capital. That would be far better than just a small spur to the NI network from one town.

corktina · 18-09-2013 9:00am

But Rail is yesterdays mode. If things change after 2030 then a far more up to date mode of travel may be available. You may as well campaign to bring back the Horse or the Canals.
A Modern Road would benefit far more people as it stands now, never mind a couple of decades down the line (no pun intended). In this age of technology, rails are increasingly not necessary to guide a vehicle.

Banjoxed · 18-09-2013 9:48am

corktina wrote: »

But Rail is yesterdays mode. If things change after 2030 then a far more up to date mode of travel may be available. You may as well campaign to bring back the Horse or the Canals.
A Modern Road would benefit far more people as it stands now, never mind a couple of decades down the line (no pun intended). In this age of technology, rails are increasingly not necessary to guide a vehicle.

The upsurge in usage on the Derry trains would seem to prove this assertion wrong.

18-09-2013 10:07am

corktina wrote: »

But Rail is yesterdays mode etc etc

Ah, I see. You're not thinking in real terms, but political ones. You have a position and you'll tailor all solutions to that position, whether they be viable or bending backwards to suit your position. To counter that point would be to drag things off topic, so I'm just going to stop here. I've nothing more to add.

Edit: Just thinking, I was talking about if Letterkenny rail became viable. You're asserting that it never will, and I'm not saying it will or won't.

corktina · 18-09-2013 10:26am

no i'm saying that there may be a better solution, one that isn't apparent now. Rail isn't that solution now and probably won't be in the future.

Surely you have noted the advances being made in cars that park themselves and brake automatically when there is an obstruction and also sat nav technology. Do you not think that in 20 years + that a road network with self guided vehicles that take you from A to B at will is possible? A Rail network that will do anything like this is not practically or economically likely.

The campaigners are setting their sights too low by looking at an old technology.

currins_02 · 18-09-2013 10:33am

Letterkenny is possibly one of the worst planned towns in Ireland with sporadic development spread in every direction. As someone who spends a good bit of time in the NorthWest and who is not averse to rail as a concept I just don't see where or how they would position a station to be convenient. If it's not convenient it won't be viable. The old station is now in private ownership (albeit leased back to Bus Eireann) and all the yard property around it has been developed as a shopping centre. The old Oatfield building would be a good location but I fear the issue of getting a line in & out and whether there is physically enough space would rule it out.

Other than that the only site I could foresee would be on the extreme Derry end of the town, somewher elike Bonagee and I don't know how practical or viable that would be.

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 10:38am

corktina wrote: »

no i'm saying that there may be a better solution, one that isn't apparent now. Rail isn't that solution now and probably won't be in the future.

Surely you have noted the advances being made in cars that park themselves and brake automatically when there is an obstruction and also sat nav technology. Do you not think that in 20 years + that a road network with self guided vehicles that take you from A to B at will is possible? A Rail network that will do anything like this is not practically or economically likely.

The campaigners are setting their sights too low by looking at an old technology.

Railways aren't there to be preserved in aspic and admired as a piece of industrial archaeology, they are an efficient method of transporting people that other countries are spending time and money to develop further.

Even here in Ireland there are several schemes on the drawing board awaiting the time we get out of the bailout.

As for guided cars etc that sort of thing really belongs in the world of the Jetsons and is many years away if it ever comes to pass.

Edit: Following Currins point, the old railway station is still in the ownership of the Lough Swilly Railway Co and to my mind it would make sense to use it as an integrated bus and rail hub.

corktina · 18-09-2013 10:51am

many years away, but isn't that the point....not before 2030.

As I already said, the technology for cars is forging ahead and self-guided cars are not a Jetson's dream.

Is it really so far-fetched and undesirable to envisage a world where you walk down the road to the Go-Car rank, log in and the car takes you to your destination? It would even pick you up at home too I guess.

Rail is fine in it's place, like HS2 in the UK...but for most usage a door to door car that you don't have to drive and don't have to park sounds pretty desirable to me. Rail will only ever be able to do the trunk hauls.

currins_02 · 18-09-2013 11:06am

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Following Currins point, the old railway station is still in the ownership of the Lough Swilly Railway Co and to my mind it would make sense to use it as an integrated bus and rail hub.

Would make sense but where would you now put a platform and lines and sidings etc? Given the yard is fairly small now and tight if 3 or 4 coaches are about? Harcourt Developments (parent of L & LSR) who own the whole place are primarily property and shopping developers and I can't see them sacrificing ground for a rail link given the amount would be needed.

Losty Dublin · 18-09-2013 11:23am

The main thing that's stopped any plans for the line to extended to Letterkenny is the matter of bridging the Foyle. Once that is done the GNR alignment is largely intact as far as Lifford/Strabane. The CDR bed is also largely free bar for road realignment at Letterkenny and Raphoe. Although it is windy, it isn't too far in from Lifford and it can be straghtened out with reasonable ease. The alternative is a new route which would go across from the old GNR trackbed; it will have to dodge a few hills and large lumps plus it misses Lifford/Strbane

Monies for such a project can be procured easily enough from EU/Cross border funding, it would go some way to easing traffic conjestion between the two locations plus it would be a big deal for both communities to be connected together.

Of course it will take time and it is a very long finger but NIR and CIE have plans about how to do it and it is possible given if the resources and go ahead were given. I'm not holding my breath about it but it is possible, no doubts about it.

end of the road · 18-09-2013 11:53am

corktina wrote: »

But Rail is yesterdays mode.

what a load of nonsense, it was that mindset that saw to the destruction/industrial terrorism on dublins tram system by CIE, its also that mindset that saw to irelands pro car policies at the expence of all public transport specially rail.

corktina wrote: »

A Modern Road would benefit far more people as it stands

we all ready have them, they cost way more then steal tracks to keep to a high standard

corktina wrote: »

In this age of technology, rails are increasingly not necessary to guide a vehicle.

its a lot more of a civilised way to travel then traveling on the roads

corktina · 18-09-2013 12:30pm

Mostly true but still the case that History will repeat itself and Rail will be eclipsed just as the Turnpikes and Canals were

What I had in mind with my crystal ball would actually mean less cars on the road, certainly less parked up at any rate.

Roads have the supreme advantage that they go everywhere. Rail can't hope to do that. In 20 odd years time, rail will be at an even bigger disadvantage as Road Technology (that I mentioned but all the pro-Railees have ignored) marches on. Cars can already park and brake automatically, it won't be long before they will be able to do much more.

I predict that in 2030 Donegal wont want a railway, it willbe kicking itself for not insisting on it's road system to all corners being kept up to date

Losty Dublin · 18-09-2013 1:20pm

corktina wrote: »

Mostly true but still the case that History will repeat itself and Rail will be eclipsed just as the Turnpikes and Canals were

What I had in mind with my crystal ball would actually mean less cars on the road, certainly less parked up at any rate.

Roads have the supreme advantage that they go everywhere. Rail can't hope to do that. In 20 odd years time, rail will be at an even bigger disadvantage as Road Technology (that I mentioned but all the pro-Railees have ignored) marches on. Cars can already park and brake automatically, it won't be long before they will be able to do much more.

I predict that in 2030 Donegal wont want a railway, it willbe kicking itself for not insisting on it's road system to all corners being kept up to date

Don't get us wrong; cars are far more flexible than trains but it's rather naive or cynical to assume that cars answer every transport problem out there.

For the record, I don't see how self driving cars will hurt public transport and railways other than possibly making a driving test irrelevant in the far away future. The self driving car may be here (And yes, one is featured in todays IT) but it's a long long way away for the vast majority of motorists to have it, if car firms even choose to go with it on a mass scale. If anything making it easier to own and run a car will just increase conjestion on public roads, thus tilting the balance back towards public transport.

corktina · 18-09-2013 1:37pm

I've no problem with Public Transport, especially Rail. However what it can do is limited and my point is in twenty years it is likely that technology will make Rail as it is now (outside of Commuter and InterCity) look like a dinosaur, and in that context the Donegal people should be setting their sights higher than a traditional rail line.

I believe and have stated that the Car has to be severely limited in City Centres in favour of Public Transport and the system I am guessing at should be looked at , perhaps, as replacing Taxis rather than the Private Car. A sort of marriage between Dublin Bike and Go-car type systems.

Weathering · 18-09-2013 1:44pm

We don't have trains in Donegal full stop so poor Donegal not Derry. We sold the tracks to India in 50's so yeah India is better off than Donegal ha. It is a joke to think they never were reintroduced especially during the "boom" years.

Imagine your county..now imagine it without trains..need I say more

Weathering · 18-09-2013 1:47pm

corktina wrote: »

that's pure fantasy. here is no demand for rail traffic between sligo and donegal/letterkenny/Derry that a Coach couldn't satisfy and probably does right now. Why would anyone even dream of investing billions for so little return?

Well it's obvious you don't live in the listed areas so with your insider knowledge I'll concur with your expert analysis

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 2:14pm

Billions for a rail link between Letterkenny and Derry? Not unless you're using platinum rails perhaps. The Borders Railway in Scotland is weighing in at £300 million for a railway with similar length. It's a lot of money but TEN-T funding could be available.

Millions yes, but billions, no.

mlumley · 18-09-2013 2:26pm

corktina wrote: »

no i'm saying that there may be a better solution, one that isn't apparent now. Rail isn't that solution now and probably won't be in the future.

Surely you have noted the advances being made in cars that park themselves and brake automatically when there is an obstruction and also sat nav technology. Do you not think that in 20 years + that a road network with self guided vehicles that take you from A to B at will is possible? A Rail network that will do anything like this is not practically or economically likely.

The campaigners are setting their sights too low by looking at an old technology.

Just a thought, but what about people who don't have cars, disabled, young people, those who want to go to Derry and have a drink with a meal. There are more than just car users to consider. Large groups for instance.

Rail is not yesterdays mode.

18-09-2013 2:48pm

Guys, the more we respond to trolling about how future driverless cars will make all railways obsolete by 2030 (just think about that. Take a moment, and apply it to Donegal.Sound far fetched to you too? Yeah. Sound relevant to the discussion? Not to me.), the less we can discuss the reality of whether it's a good idea to restore the rail link to Letterkenny or not.

Please don't rise to trolling bait dragging things off topic. I want to hear why this link restoration could/couldn't or should/shouldn't be done, not how railways will be obsolete in 2030.

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 3:58pm

Donegal needs good roads and a rail connection, lets get the basics right first. Driverless car technology is totally irrelevant to the discussion of potential rail links to Letterkenny and beyond.

corktina · 18-09-2013 3:59pm

those basics from now to 2030 seem to be good roads do they not? this is my point.

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 4:04pm

corktina wrote: »

those basics from now to 2030 seem to be good roads do they not? this is my point.

Good roads and a rail connection - the two are certainly not mutually exclusive.

A rail service has the potential to deliver a significant number of tourists into Donegal. Connecting bus services and car hire facilities at Letterkenny would then be able to allow those tourists to explore West Donegal.

Donegal's relative isolation from the rest of the State would lessen too.

dowlingm · 18-09-2013 4:04pm

So here are my questions:

1. Where is the congestion between Letterkenny and Derry
2. How much of this congestion is passing through Derry or to its eastern outskirts/LDY airport.
3. How much of this congestion originates in Letterkenny.

Rail *could* reduce congestion issues, yes, but *how much* of it? Translink would be the logical operator but with a majority of the route in ROI territory that would be tricky in respect of initial and operating financing - we can see with Enterprise that in a scheme where two parties have to chip in it only needs one to put their hands in their pockets and leave them there and improvement ceases. If it dumps people on the west side of the Foyle, how do they complete their journeys, and without a connection to the rest of the NIR network how is fleet maintenance performed?

There's a lot of chippyness on the part of Donegal people about their lack of a railway but it really just seems to originate from a general and mostly founded feeling of underinvestment. Simply pointing to a short, probably isolated rail line (much as Tramore-Waterford was) as the answer, when for similar money you could put a coach on dedicated lanes and operate a high frequency service, just seems like aspiring for something you'll never get and therefore never have cause to remove the chip from your shoulder, rather than something which might well be possible and having to be content with it.

BuffyBot · 18-09-2013 4:15pm

Less categorising other folks posts as "trolling" because you disagree with them, and more refuting arguements you don't agree with by means of providing a well structured argument would be a beneficial direction for folks to take this thread in.

end of the road · 18-09-2013 4:31pm

mlumley wrote: »

Just a thought, but what about people who don't have cars, disabled, young people, those who want to go to Derry and have a drink with a meal. There are more than just car users to consider. Large groups for instance.

Rail is not yesterdays mode.

couldn't have put it better myself and no the bus isn't good enough for me, don't care how comfortable they supposibly are i just can't settle on a bus on a long journey, apart from a short journey on dublin bus i only take a coach in desperation (as in i miss the train) the journey to donegal from dublin is about 5 hours or something isn't it? sounds like evil punishment, theirs surely some town in donegal that is viable enough for a rail service somewhere connecting to one of the lines?

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 4:52pm

If we go back to the original AECOM/Goodbody report that rejected a Derry-Letterkenny rail link, there is no backup information on how the scoring system could rate the link as 59 points, one point away from being viable.

Surely a cost benefit analysis should have been run and detailed surveys undertaken of passenger movements by private car and public transport to show the levels of demand?

I remain very sceptical of the report and think that the figures quoted should have been substantiated.

dowlingm · 18-09-2013 4:53pm

end of the road: where are you travelling from? Letterkenny is 40mins from Derry according to Google Maps, and while I'm sure that varies with traffic patterns it's hardly excessive. How close to people's front door is rail supposed to get before feeder buses are deemed acceptable?

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 4:55pm

dowlingm wrote: »

So here are my questions:

1. Where is the congestion between Letterkenny and Derry
2. How much of this congestion is passing through Derry or to its eastern outskirts/LDY airport.
3. How much of this congestion originates in Letterkenny.

Rail *could* reduce congestion issues, yes, but *how much* of it? Translink would be the logical operator but with a majority of the route in ROI territory that would be tricky in respect of initial and operating financing - we can see with Enterprise that in a scheme where two parties have to chip in it only needs one to put their hands in their pockets and leave them there and improvement ceases. If it dumps people on the west side of the Foyle, how do they complete their journeys, and without a connection to the rest of the NIR network how is fleet maintenance performed?

There's a lot of chippyness on the part of Donegal people about their lack of a railway but it really just seems to originate from a general and mostly founded feeling of underinvestment. Simply pointing to a short, probably isolated rail line (much as Tramore-Waterford was) as the answer, when for similar money you could put a coach on dedicated lanes and operate a high frequency service, just seems like aspiring for something you'll never get and therefore never have cause to remove the chip from your shoulder, rather than something which might well be possible and having to be content with it.

Any rail connection from Letterkenny to Derry would have to connect at Waterside. Where do you get the idea that the line would be isolated?

Banjoxed · 18-09-2013 5:03pm

dowlingm wrote: »

So here are my questions:

1. Where is the congestion between Letterkenny and Derry
2. How much of this congestion is passing through Derry or to its eastern outskirts/LDY airport.
3. How much of this congestion originates in Letterkenny.

Rail *could* reduce congestion issues, yes, but *how much* of it? Translink would be the logical operator but with a majority of the route in ROI territory that would be tricky in respect of initial and operating financing - we can see with Enterprise that in a scheme where two parties have to chip in it only needs one to put their hands in their pockets and leave them there and improvement ceases. If it dumps people on the west side of the Foyle, how do they complete their journeys, and without a connection to the rest of the NIR network how is fleet maintenance performed?

There's a lot of chippyness on the part of Donegal people about their lack of a railway but it really just seems to originate from a general and mostly founded feeling of underinvestment. Simply pointing to a short, probably isolated rail line (much as Tramore-Waterford was) as the answer, when for similar money you could put a coach on dedicated lanes and operate a high frequency service, just seems like aspiring for something you'll never get and therefore never have cause to remove the chip from your shoulder, rather than something which might well be possible and having to be content with it.

I can partially answer your question from a Derry perspective: the main road to Letterkenny and Buncrana is the most congested road in the city and it can take forty minutes to clear Bridgend. The other side of the river tends to be more free flowing than the city side. Given the heavy loadings from Coleraine on the train, the railway is a factor that simply attracts more car users than a bus does.

Where on earth though does the idea of an isolated line come from? No one anywhere has suggested that. For the time being though I am content with the existing railway proving itself and improving its service, particularly with connections southward.

As for the alleged chippiness of Donegal people, perhaps you might visit here sometime to see for yourself.

end of the road · 18-09-2013 5:23pm

dowlingm wrote: »

end of the road: where are you travelling from? Letterkenny is 40mins from Derry according to Google Maps, and while I'm sure that varies with traffic patterns it's hardly excessive. How close to people's front door is rail supposed to get before feeder buses are deemed acceptable?

my post said dublin to donegal, my point is that building a railway to derry and possibly having direct trains may be a faster way of traveling to dublin then via the bus which takes i believe about 5 hours, i also said i use dublin bus but would only take a long distance coach in desperate times, if you missed that post fair enough.

18-09-2013 6:26pm

(Disclaimer: never been up North)

While I think it'd be great for NI access, I'm not sure a Letterkenny spur to Derry would be enough to consider travel to Dublin. Remember you'd have to head to Dublin via Belfast, which is a trek from Derry in itself. Many have looked for air transport for Derry-Dublin, and I'd say that would be a more feasible option if you wanted an alternative to a bus. Donegal airport already has such services, and might I note that that IIRC, these now run without subsidies.

I'm trying to think whether Donegal & Kerry are similar in topography & demographics. If so, perhaps there is a like-for-like comparison of rail and rail-less extreme ends of the country from Dublin.

dowlingm · 18-09-2013 7:17pm

banjaxed - my remarks about Donegal are limited to those who claim to be from there and post here. I spent the week I got my Leaving Cert results in the Malin area and the people I met during that time were as I recall great people (albeit that we're talking about 20+ years ago!)

The remark about an isolated line pertains to how a putative west bank railway to LK would connect to the existing east bank facilities. Bridging the Foyle anew in a way that allowed connecting the lines would add significant cost to the enterprise.

If the proposed project money was put into a road bridge as an extension of an A5-A6 connector and an upgrade of the R237/B193 to Newtowncunningham to N/A status to divert Derry and points east traffic then this would relieve the remainder of the Buncrana route.

end of the road: your post was in answer to mlumley's who referred to going to Derry to have a drink/meal. The Derry line is specced for I believe 70mph when all the improvements have been done, and the Belfast-Dublin route for 90 at best. At present the Derry-Belfast train takes 2h10 or so, the Enterprise 2h and it is not a continuous service and you still haven't crossed the Foyle. The 32BE bus to Letterkenny operates 9 services per direction per day on a 4 hour timetable and serves DUB which the train does not. Now we've seen with X8 where BE takes liberties there but it would be difficult for any rail service to operate the route in less than 5 hours even with line improvements when allowing for the Derry and Belfast terminal operations.

If there was a full bus leaving Letterkenny for Derry every half hour I might be convinced that this is a high density corridor. It isn't. Instead the 480/64 timetable represents two different routings towards Stranolar and Newtowncunningham of which only one would be served (surely!) by a putative railway unless we truly are returning to the Viceregal era.

Banjoxed · 18-09-2013 8:08pm

dowlingm wrote: »

banjaxed - my remarks about Donegal are limited to those who claim to be from there and post here. I spent the week I got my Leaving Cert results in the Malin area and the people I met during that time were as I recall great people (albeit that we're talking about 20+ years ago!)

The remark about an isolated line pertains to how a putative west bank railway to LK would connect to the existing east bank facilities. Bridging the Foyle anew in a way that allowed connecting the lines would add significant cost to the enterprise.

If the proposed project money was put into a road bridge as an extension of an A5-A6 connector and an upgrade of the R237/B193 to Newtowncunningham to N/A status to divert Derry and points east traffic then this would relieve the remainder of the Buncrana route.

end of the road: your post was in answer to mlumley's who referred to going to Derry to have a drink/meal. The Derry line is specced for I believe 70mph when all the improvements have been done, and the Belfast-Dublin route for 90 at best. At present the Derry-Belfast train takes 2h10 or so, the Enterprise 2h and it is not a continuous service and you still haven't crossed the Foyle. The 32BE bus to Letterkenny operates 9 services per direction per day on a 4 hour timetable and serves DUB which the train does not. Now we've seen with X8 where BE takes liberties there but it would be difficult for any rail service to operate the route in less than 5 hours even with line improvements when allowing for the Derry and Belfast terminal operations.

If there was a full bus leaving Letterkenny for Derry every half hour I might be convinced that this is a high density corridor. It isn't. Instead the 480/64 timetable represents two different routings towards Stranolar and Newtowncunningham of which only one would be served (surely!) by a putative railway unless we truly are returning to the Viceregal era.

Thanks for that. I'm Inishowen myself and have a soft spot for Malin.

As I said earlier, the priority for the time being is the consolidation and improvement of the Derry - Belfast line. However, I'm not convinced that the only determinant of any future rail demand is existing bus usage. Like another poster earlier I would be very interested in seeing the full rationale behind the nearly but not quite scoring that the Letterkenny railway option got in the Goodbody report, and not merely opinions on it.

By 2030 we may well be dealing with a very different environment for transport but it is my belief that fossil fuel supply will be the problem - there isn't any more being made in a factory somewhere! And I don't think I'll be whizzing around like George Jetson either. Predicting and providing roads to meet endless demand may well be the obsolete technology then.

corktina · 18-09-2013 8:48pm

Electric Car technology is marching forward too. Trains run on fossil fuels too and electrification of Ireland's railways is some way off due to having no money

Still, at least we agree that the situation after 2030 may be completely different.

Copyerselveson · 18-09-2013 11:35pm

corktina wrote: »

Electric Car technology is marching forward too. Trains run on fossil fuels too and electrification of Ireland's railways is some way off due to having no money

Still, at least we agree that the situation after 2030 may be completely different.

Why is electric car technology particularly relevant to a potential rail link between Letterkenny and Derry? Surely that subject deserves a separate thread in Cars or Infrastructure.

I certainly think it's also worth having a separate discussion on alternatives to Diesel fuel to power trains in Ireland.

monument · 19-09-2013 1:55am

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Why is electric car technology particularly relevant to a potential rail link between Letterkenny and Derry? Surely that subject deserves a separate thread in Cars or Infrastructure.

I certainly think it's also worth having a separate discussion on alternatives to Diesel fuel to power trains in Ireland.

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Banjoxed · 28-01-2014 1:56pm

corktina wrote: »

Electric Car technology is marching forward too. Trains run on fossil fuels too and electrification of Ireland's railways is some way off due to having no money

Still, at least we agree that the situation after 2030 may be completely different.

Electric Cars not such a roaring success in Derry, as the Department of Regional Development removes points to free up one or two car parking spaces:

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/business/derry-charging-point-to-go-as-ecars-fail-to-spark-1-5835891

NIMAN · 28-01-2014 2:00pm

Anyone know an EV driver around Derry or Donegal?

Banjoxed · 28-01-2014 2:02pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone know an EV driver around Derry or Donegal?

But sure there must be loads :pac:

Derry and Donegal rail campaigners can forget about it

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