Pirating Netflix originals.

B.A._Baracus · 07-09-2013 12:19AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why would boards care about that?

I know, it's stupid.
In the films section on boards you cant talk about it. Mods delete posts. I dont get it tho, you are still paying NetFlix money

lkionm · 07-09-2013 12:20AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why would boards care about that?

Since technically it is illegal. Same with torrenting.

I presume they can't be seen how to facilitate law breaking when the answer a a google away.

I always download. But if I had Netflix and they didn't have something right away I would download it. Still can't see myself getting it though.
Been downloading for too long, would feel like losing.

Orion · 07-09-2013 02:10AM

humbert wrote: »

Both I'd say. Hopefully Linux support will come soon.

It's a good service and a much better way to tackle piracy than legislation. It deserves to succeed though, it doesn't need "support". Actually the fact that it doesn't need support, specifically the support of heavy handed legislation, is one of the main reasons it deserves to succeed.

I agree 100% - this is the model that should have been adopted years ago rather than the completely ineffectual clampdown that they attempted.

But I can't see it being available on Linux anytime soon. They are too invested in M$ Silverlight. As long as they stick with proprietary crap like that then I'm not going to be a customer I'm afraid.

You can run Netflix in a Linux environment but it involves using Wine and installing a ppa app. While I have no objection to ppas they are not official and therefore not supported. Any change to the netflix delivery and the ppa is useless until the guy who wrote it gets around to updating it. Low cost media centres are going to stick with Linux as it's free. So there is a market segment that Netflix are going to miss out on. I'd pay for Netflix to be honest - I've heard nothing but good things about it - but only if I can watch it on my TV through my Pi.

Orion · 07-09-2013 02:16AM

Rascasse wrote: »

Is that because of Silverlight? If so they are ditching that completely for html5 soon (though DRM remains, understandably) .

*mental note - read rest of replies before commenting*

Didn't know that. I've no problem with DRM in principle - the practice has been lacking in the likes of Sony and other studios implementations. If Netflix implement a linux friendly solution and the DRM is not intrusive (as in no rootkit type of behaviour*) then I'll certainly look at it.

*not even implying that netflix would do that - my reading of them has been very positive - first company to cop on that you need to earn trust not buy mistrust.

COYVB · 07-09-2013 02:22AM

lkionm wrote: »

Since technically it is illegal. Same with torrenting.

I presume they can't be seen how to facilitate law breaking when the answer a a google away.

I always download. But if I had Netflix and they didn't have something right away I would download it. Still can't see myself getting it though.
Been downloading for too long, would feel like losing.

Illegal is the wrong word, since I don't believe it's actually against the law, but rather against the Netflix terms

COYVB · 07-09-2013 02:24AM

Orion wrote: »

*mental note - read rest of replies before commenting*

Didn't know that. I've no problem with DRM in principle - the practice has been lacking in the likes of Sony and other studios implementations. If Netflix implement a linux friendly solution and the DRM is not intrusive (as in no rootkit type of behaviour*) then I'll certainly look at it.

*not even implying that netflix would do that - my reading of them has been very positive - first company to cop on that you need to earn trust not buy mistrust.

What's the DRM on Netflix? Surely you're not counting having to log in as being the same thing as restricting use unreasonably?

SherlockWatson · 07-09-2013 02:25AM

SouthTippBass wrote: »

Do you think its acceptable to pirate from the Netflix original series? Netflix offers a fantastic service, imo, and €7 is a very reasonable fee for such quality and quantity of movies/series. I'm happy to hand over my €7 every month just for Breaking Bad alone, and currently working my way through Orange is the new black as well which I'm happy to pay for.

Yeah, they don't have all the movies you want to see, but what they have got is still worth the price of a chicken dinner. I understand not everybody shares my opinion, and I also wont pretend I'v never pirated anything, but I feel good service deserves support.

They're not providing a good service out of the goodness of their hearts, its because they want money.

Orion · 07-09-2013 09:08AM

COYVB wrote: »

What's the DRM on Netflix? Surely you're not counting having to log in as being the same thing as restricting use unreasonably?

Quite the opposite - if you read my post again I'm being positive about Netflix.

UCDVet · 07-09-2013 09:57AM

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I'd pirate them just because they use DRM and M$ silverlight.

Paying is for suckers, pirate away mad

Netflix doesn't care about piracy; it's the content owners that require DRM to be there.

I'd take Netflix over the government extorted TV tax any day.

UCDVet · 07-09-2013 10:15AM

lkionm wrote: »

Since technically it is illegal. Same with torrenting.

I presume they can't be seen how to facilitate law breaking when the answer a a google away.

I always download. But if I had Netflix and they didn't have something right away I would download it. Still can't see myself getting it though.
Been downloading for too long, would feel like losing.

I spent a lot of time downloading stuff too; but I still have Netflix. Even with terabytes of storage, my local library couldn't compete with Netflix - and, in most cases, downloading can't be done on demand if you are torrenting.

Torrenting gives you different file types as well. It's not a big problem, but it's a headache. If I download a movie off a torrent site it might play on my PC using VLC but not on my PS3. I can use ffmpeg or another tool to re-encode it, to something that works on both, but adds another 20-30 minutes to the process. I also like to put media on an old smart phone; with Netflix, I can run the app on my cell and it works. If I download, I need to re-encode the whole thing again, for my tiny android phone (the phone isn't powerful enough to play the original movie).

Older/less popular stuff, is pretty hard to download, or at least requires some effort. Sure, a popular movie that was just released on DVD - no problem. But an old 80s TV show that wasn't too popular? Well, it's a toss up.

Subtitles also tend to be a mess when you pirate stuff. For example, take a movie like The Da Vinci Code - if you download it, you get the movie. But there are a few scenes where someone is speaking in Latin(? I think). The pirated versions almost never have English subtitles for that. If you go online, you can search and find .SRT files that *some* players will use to display subtitles - but, many times, you end up with subtitles on EVERYTHING that is said, not just the non-English parts.

If you find a file that contains just the non-English parts (and you can, so long as the movie is popular), the .SRT file is only supported by some media players. It works on my PC with VLC - but it doesn't work on my PS3 or cell phone.

Less common, but....my wife and I are planning a trip to Spain some years in the future, and we thought, what the hell - let's learn Spanish. It's really, really, really easy to change languages in Netflix. They don't have it for every show (and we actually use a tool to give us an IP address in Mexico so we get a different selection, but this is true for the default Ireland one as well) - but you can select from several languages and decide which audio you want and what language subtitles you want. I can watch Arrested Development in Spanish, with English subtitles.

And, I know it's cool to acknowledge it, but torrenting is (most likely) illegal. Most ISPs kind of look the other way, so long as you aren't using too much bandwidth, but people do, occasionally, get in trouble for it. With Netflix, you know that everything you are doing is on the up-and-up.

Chancer3001 · 07-09-2013 10:53AM

Over here it's free.

Over here you have to pay.

I know which one ill pick.

EyeSight · 07-09-2013 11:04AM

Netflix couldn't care less if you use the USA version. It would very simple for them to find out and block you(some sites will see that you've logged in from Ireland one second and another country the next which isn't possible). But they don't. They get paid either way, i think it's only to keep the networks happy

SherlockWatson · 08-09-2013 03:32AM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Do the free ones have consistent, reliable quality? Or having to search for a ages for a good stream, wait for about 15 ads to close, manually close another 20 ads before the stream dies halfway through?

Yes they do.
Don't have to search ages.
Ad blocker.
Ad blocker.
Streams rarely "die" midway, they either work or they don't.

AlanS181824 · 09-09-2013 12:51AM

Interesting thread.

Dravokivich · 09-09-2013 11:13AM

COYVB wrote: »

Illegal is the wrong word, since I don't believe it's actually against the law, but rather against the Netflix terms

Well, it's for Netflix to restrict themselves. The rights they have to broadcast or provide streaming are based on the now outdated definition of territories/regional licensing. That's the predominant reason why they've different catalogues.

Modifying your DNS settings to circumvent their broadcasting rights, is somewhat exploiting the service they provide you. But looking over the website just now, without logging in, they've no clear link to T&Cs. So I can't even see if a customer was to use this exploit, that is a violation of their T&Cs.

Edit:
Eventually found it, the link was the same colour as the rest of the text, so didn't stand out. 2 comments from it of relevance:

Geographic Limitation: You may instantly watch a movie or TV show through the Netflix service only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show. The content that may be available to watch will vary by geographic location. Netflix will use technologies to verify your geographic location.

Stipulates the territorial requirements.

And under Copyright:

You agree to adhere to the restrictions set forth under "Netflix streaming software" and "Limitations on Use." You agree not to decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble any software or other products or processes accessible through the Netflix service, not to insert any code or product or manipulate the content of the Netflix service in any way, and not to use any data mining, data gathering or extraction method.

So basically, as long as you aren't directly fiddling with their software, they don't seem to give a fiddle about it themselves.

humanji · 09-09-2013 11:20AM

Folk, don't discuss illegal activities or ways to circumvent a company's terms of use. It's a dodgy gray area, but we've to be careful. If you've a problem with this, contact Seán Sherlock TD for more information.

wes · 09-09-2013 11:21AM

Orion wrote: »

But I can't see it being available on Linux anytime soon. They are too invested in M$ Silverlight. As long as they stick with proprietary crap like that then I'm not going to be a customer I'm afraid.

Silverlight is End of Lifed, so they won't be supporting if forever. Netflix, are last I read, looking into HTML 5 video, and were proposing a DRM extension to HTML 5. If this extension passes the standards process, and then if lets say the Linux version of Firefox or another browser supports it, then you could see Netflix on Linux.

The problem that Netflix has, is that the right holders require DRM, hence using stuff like Silverlight, and having to propose DRM extensions to the new tech they want to use.

keithclancy · 09-09-2013 11:44AM

Netflix is great, wide selection with suggestions.

Good new shows (House of Cards, Arrested Development)

Also Breaking Bad is up to date

Handy too when away from home in a hotel or something with the netflix app.

weisses · 09-09-2013 12:08PM

keithclancy wrote: »

Netflix is great, wide selection with suggestions.

Good new shows (House of Cards, Arrested Development)

Also Breaking Bad is up to date

Handy too when away from home in a hotel or something with the netflix app.

And will be available in beautiful Brabant very soon

ALiasEX · 09-09-2013 03:41PM

COYVB wrote: »

What's the DRM on Netflix? Surely you're not counting having to log in as being the same thing as restricting use unreasonably?

With Netflix no matter how much of a video you have downloaded, once you go backwards in the video everything you have downloaded of that video is lost and you must redownload it. I go backwards in videos often and that would eat away at my limited bandwidth. I presume this is because of DRM.

keithclancy · 09-09-2013 04:12PM

ALiasEX wrote: »

With Netflix no matter how much of a video you have downloaded, once you go backwards in the video everything you have downloaded of that video is lost and you must redownload it. I go backwards in videos often and that would eat away at my limited bandwidth. I presume this is because of DRM.

That's because its a streaming service.

Why do you need to go back in movies so much anyway ?

EyeSight · 09-09-2013 04:30PM

ALiasEX wrote: »

With Netflix no matter how much of a video you have downloaded, once you go backwards in the video everything you have downloaded of that video is lost and you must redownload it. I go backwards in videos often and that would eat away at my limited bandwidth. I presume this is because of DRM.

it doesn't download the whole stream while you wait. A few years ago you could load a youtube/netflix video. Pause it, come back later and it will all be loaded(Downloaded to you machine temporarily). Now if you pause, it will only load about 2-5 minutes ahead and then wait. This save bandwidth and is more efficient.
Free online streaming services don't usually do this

humanji · 09-09-2013 04:35PM

EyeSight wrote: »

it doesn't download the whole stream while you wait. A few years ago you could load a youtube/netflix video. Pause it, come back later and it will all be loaded(Downloaded to you machine temporarily). Now if you pause, it will only load about 2-5 minutes ahead and then wait. This save bandwidth and is more efficient.
Free online streaming services don't usually do this

I always wondered why that happened on Youtube. I had assumed it just hated me.

danniemcq · 09-09-2013 04:54PM

ALiasEX wrote: »

With Netflix no matter how much of a video you have downloaded, once you go backwards in the video everything you have downloaded of that video is lost and you must redownload it. I go backwards in videos often and that would eat away at my limited bandwidth. I presume this is because of DRM.

It's quite a lot more complicated than that, arstechnica did a great write up on it and why ads don't suffer the same fate

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/why-youtube-buffers-the-secret-deals-that-make-and-break-online-video/

Amirani · 09-09-2013 05:02PM

humanji wrote: »

I always wondered why that happened on Youtube. I had assumed it just hated me.

They purposely changed this a couple of years back. There are browser add-ons though that allow you to revert to the previous method. One such example is described here: http://lifehacker.com/preload-entire-youtube-videos-by-disabling-dash-playbac-1186454034

seamus · 09-09-2013 05:48PM

Pirating is pretty quickly receding into the recesses of the Internet and as a fringe inconsequential activity where it used to live before Napster. The only reason pirating gained any traction beyond the 1% is because it was the only game in town for so long if you wanted an alternative to renting/buying a film or buying a CD.

There was a lengthy interview with Kevin Spacey recently enough where he stated that the movie industry has an opportunity to not make the mistakes the music industry has made. And he very concisely said something which I've been saying for ten years - give people what they want, when they want it, and in the format that they want it, and they will pay you for it. Limit the selection, limit the availability or limit the format and they will go ahead and bypass you and just take it for free.

99% of people lack the technical skills to pirate content, however minimal those skills may be.
They don't want to watch movies on a piddly computer or laptop screen, they want to watch them on the 40" TV screen on the corner.
They don't want to spend 20 minutes hunting through dodgy streaming sites to find one with the movie they want in a decent format with no weird subtitles, DOGS or other onscreen crap.
Likewise, they don't want to spend 30 minutes downloading a HD film and another 60 minutes converting it to a HD format their TV will play and then figuring out how to transfer it to the DNLA media server and making sure the software is picking it up and transcoding it correctly.

People want to be able to sit down at their TV, click a button on their remote, select a film and watch it in HD. That's convenience, and people are paying for it, in huge numbers.

I still download some stuff, like Game of Thrones, but it's a big pile of hassle. I pay for Netflix because it bypasses all that hassle for the stuff in its library.

weisses · 10-09-2013 01:17PM

seamus wrote: »

Pirating is pretty quickly receding into the recesses of the Internet and as a fringe inconsequential activity where it used to live before Napster. The only reason pirating gained any traction beyond the 1% is because it was the only game in town for so long if you wanted an alternative to renting/buying a film or buying a CD.

There was a lengthy interview with Kevin Spacey recently enough where he stated that the movie industry has an opportunity to not make the mistakes the music industry has made. And he very concisely said something which I've been saying for ten years - give people what they want, when they want it, and in the format that they want it, and they will pay you for it. Limit the selection, limit the availability or limit the format and they will go ahead and bypass you and just take it for free.

99% of people lack the technical skills to pirate content, however minimal those skills may be.
They don't want to watch movies on a piddly computer or laptop screen, they want to watch them on the 40" TV screen on the corner.
They don't want to spend 20 minutes hunting through dodgy streaming sites to find one with the movie they want in a decent format with no weird subtitles, DOGS or other onscreen crap.
Likewise, they don't want to spend 30 minutes downloading a HD film and another 60 minutes converting it to a HD format their TV will play and then figuring out how to transfer it to the DNLA media server and making sure the software is picking it up and transcoding it correctly.

People want to be able to sit down at their TV, click a button on their remote, select a film and watch it in HD. That's convenience, and people are paying for it, in huge numbers.

I still download some stuff, like Game of Thrones, but it's a big pile of hassle. I pay for Netflix because it bypasses all that hassle for the stuff in its library.

Great post

I have done it all from games to movies to music back in the days

I have to say Im pretty happy now with my Netflix, Spotify .. .And the Steam sale's

All the feckin hassle before you got it to work ... I used to spend more time looking for bloody workarounds then actually enjoying, looking/playing/listening

Found inner peace now

although a proper infrastructure to accommodate all of this this would be nice

Shiraz 4.99 · 10-09-2013 01:44PM

I like the idea of Netflix, I see it as a user friendly service for those who aren't tech savvy enough to pirate.
The real challenge is how they can reclaim people like me who have gone to darkside completely.
Once your able to enjoy the goods for free it's very difficult to reverse that sense of entitlement.
I wish I didn't do but that doesn't stop me doing it.
The rush when some new release leaks early while it's still in the cinema is like a drug.
Knowing your the only home in your estate who are watching some new release in the comfort of your home.
Or when Oscar screeners leak early & you have the film months before it even gets released in Ireland only adds to the smugness.
To have to give that up is a challenge for everyone involved.

If there was a service like Netflix that would release films within a month of their cinema release date I would definitely consider it.
Interesting years ahead.

jester77 · 10-09-2013 01:59PM

I would like to have Netflix but they don't offer their service here, so I don't have any alternative if I want to watch their series. I happily pay Amazon for my digital books as I read them, 10€ a month to Spotify for music, 15€ a month to LoveFilm for movies on demand plus whatever I pay to the cinema and movie festivals.

The TV companies are losing out by not providing a service, I don't want to wait 6 months for the blu-ray after an episode is aired, as that is the only legit way at the moment. I would have to stay off the internet for 6 months to avoid spoilers.

weisses · 10-09-2013 04:17PM

jester77 wrote: »

I would like to have Netflix but they don't offer their service here, so I don't have any alternative if I want to watch their series. I happily pay Amazon for my digital books as I read them, 10€ a month to Spotify for music, 15€ a month to LoveFilm for movies on demand plus whatever I pay to the cinema and movie festivals.

The TV companies are losing out by not providing a service, I don't want to wait 6 months for the blu-ray after an episode is aired, as that is the only legit way at the moment. I would have to stay off the internet for 6 months to avoid spoilers.

Problem with Rolling it out in Germany has probably to do with the dubbed content

Pirating Netflix originals.

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