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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14 Mod request post#5808

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  • #782
    Raif Severance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Raif Severance


    T-K-O wrote: »
    RCB / LCB It doesn't MATTER

    If that's True, then explain to me, why are we not playing Agger as RCB or Skrtel as LCB?


  • #783
    whatawaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    If Sakho is going to go straight into the team, which I'd imagine he will - it should in the first instance be at Agger's expense. He hasn't performed consistently in over a year and has had a very shaky start to the season.


  • #784
    Whippersnapper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Whippersnapper


    Suarez's two goals for Uruguay.

    9689061709_5e0cdb8876_o.gif

    9689061569_8266778b59_o.gif


  • #785
    billy2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭billy2012


    T-K-O wrote: »
    RCB / LCB It doesn't MATTER

    Hope your joking.


  • #786
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    Raif Severance wrote: »
    If that's True, then explain to me, why are we not playing Agger as RCB or Skrtel as LCB?

    Well you see Agger kicks with his left, Sktrel.. you can see where this going.

    If the form guys are left and right footed it makes sense to play them L / R. It both are left or right, its no big deal.

    If a centre half is not capable of that, the club should ship them out without delay.


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  • #787
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    billy2012 wrote: »
    Hope your joking.

    No Im not.

    I said it before, its great (ideal situation) if you have a L and R but there is no need for this micro analysis of the CB position.

    How many great wingers or full backs played on the 'other' wing. How many coaches swap the wingers during a game. It's no big deal and if it is a big deal, the player lacks quality.


  • #788
    Grayditch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    djPSB wrote: »
    International breaks are a balls..

    Not when we have injuries to sort!


  • #789
    billy2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭billy2012


    T-K-O wrote: »
    No Im not.

    I said it before, its great (ideal situation) if you have a L and R but there is no need for this micro analysis of the CB position.

    How many great wingers or full backs played on the 'other' wing. How many coaches swap the wingers during a game. It's no big deal and if it is a big deal, the player lacks quality.

    Switching wingers / full backs is very different from switching CB's.


  • #790
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    billy2012 wrote: »
    Switching wingers / full backs is very different from switching CB's.

    Totally correct, you could agree it's even more difficult.


  • #791
    mav79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭mav79


    There has been so much talk of Agger going for the last couple of years, maybe the management are just being preemptive when Sakho became available.


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  • #792
    Whippersnapper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Whippersnapper


    Agger is not leaving the club and our new vice-captain is not about to be dropped.


  • #793
    fangee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 786 ✭✭✭fangee


    Raif Severance wrote: »
    So a Club that already has 6 RCBs (Toure, Skrtel, Wisdom, Kelly, Coates, and Ilori) versus 1 LCB (Agger), just bought another LCB (Sakho) so we can play him in RCB?

    I mean, if the Transfer Committee really thought that the RCB Position was the Problem, then why didn't we just buy another RCB then?

    Unless they thought that a LCB would solve the RCB Problem instead of buying our 7th RCB.

    Or you know, BR could just drop Agger, play Sakho and pair him with any of our 6 RCBs.


    You're moaning for the sake if it.

    Kelly and Wisdom have only played RB for us. Coates is out injured long term.

    So you're left with 2 RCB's in Toure and Skrtel.

    I'm leaving it there as I've realised you're probably looking for a nonsensical argument.


  • #794
    Raif Severance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Raif Severance


    T-K-O wrote: »
    Well you see Agger kicks with his left, Sktrel.. you can see where this going.

    If the form guys are left and right footed it makes sense to play them L / R. It both are left or right, its no big deal.

    If a centre half is not capable of that, the club should ship them out without delay.
    T-K-O wrote: »
    No Im not.

    I said it before, its great (ideal situation) if you have a L and R but there is no need for this micro analysis of the CB position.

    How many great wingers or full backs played on the 'other' wing. How many coaches swap the wingers during a game. It's no big deal and if it is a big deal, the player lacks quality.

    I'm guessing, you were not here when this was Discussed to Death awhile back. In any case, here are some Quotes for you:
    Kess73 wrote:
    Sami was better on the left side of a centre back pairing than he was on the right. Most of his best seasons and games came on the left side of a pairing. He was still good on the right side buit far better on the left.

    Alan Hansen was very one sided in his positioning as well. Henchoz was the same. Even watch some of the best in the business today. Silva, Hummels and Chiellini. Those three are top quality centre backs but they all have one side of the pairing that they look far better in, and rarely get moved from it as a starting point from game to game.

    I am not saying Sahko would struggle or be crap on the right, because until he plays there on a regular basis I cannot know that, but based on his career to date he would be better on his favoured side just as Agger is.

    Not really that unusual for a top centre back to be far better on one side of a pairing than he is on the other. Plus unlike central midfielders a centre back will not roam as much during a game and will more often than not be protecting one channel/area, but even amongst the central midfield positions similar examples can be found. Full backs can be this way as well with only certain fullbacks being equally as good on either flank. Johnson is very comfortable on either flank for example, but could you imagine a more good foot dependent player like Enrique being able to excel on the right side as easily?

    Players who excel on one side more than the other is nothing new, especially in certain positions, and plenty of high quality examples can be plucked from any era of the game. Does not in any way make those players less good at what they do. Less adaptable maybe than some other players, but no less good at their own role.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85318192&postcount=2684
    Kess73 wrote:
    Ever see Maldini when he was used on the right? Despite being naturally right footed he fared less well in the RCB role compared to when he played in the LCB and LB roles. He was never bad on the right side, but certainly not as outstanding as he was on the left. Did not stop him from being one of the finest defenders ever.

    In the modern game, look at Mats Hummels or Thiago Silva. They are brilliant centre backs who are much strong on one side of the CB pairing.

    Simply fact is that some players are more versatile in terms of playing positions than others, butthat does not mean that the less versatile ones cannot be brilliant in their favoured position.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86263863&postcount=7177
    jethro081 wrote:
    I read alan hansons book, and he devotes a piece of it to the above attitude, basically saying people invariably ignore the importance of a centre half's favourite side. Saying that it really makes a difference to the defender which side he is asked to play, and that it can, for a lot of players be as significant as the difference between a winger playing on the right, or the left.

    A good example of this would be skrtel, and how he suffered when asked to play the left sided cb role beside carra in the past. I don't think it's just a case of "you're a centre back, so the job's the same on the left as the right". Centre halves themselves seem to argue that it makes quite a bit of difference, so it makes sense that the club would be less interested in a left sided centre back, considering the fact that agger has that spot nailed down.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86059188&postcount=1156

    Yes, they could do the Job. But it doesn't mean they are going to be Good at it compared to their Favorite Side.


  • #795
    5live
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭5live


    Whippersnapper wrote: »
    Agger is not leaving the club and our new vice-captain is not about to be dropped.

    Why cant Agger be dropped?

    If a Toure/Sakho or another pairing is better than A.N. Other/Agger then we should play a weaker pairing just because....?


  • #796
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    I wouldn't doubt guys have a preferred side BUT I'm not for changing.


  • #797
    Bowlardo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    I would imagine that agger/skertel will be off in jan.failing that they will be gone in the summer


  • #798
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    djPSB wrote: »
    International breaks are a balls..

    Fcuk it, usually at this time I'm bemoaning a ****ty start being made even worse by a 2 week break.

    I'm just enjoying the fact that is our best start in what, 20 years?


  • #799
    Whippersnapper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Whippersnapper


    5live wrote: »
    Why cant Agger be dropped?

    If a Toure/Sakho or another pairing is better than A.N. Other/Agger then we should play a weaker pairing just because....?

    I didn't say he can't be. I said he won't be.


  • #800
    Nuri Sahin
    Site Banned Posts: 26,456 ✭✭✭✭Nuri Sahin


    Raif Severance wrote: »
    So a Club that already has 6 RCBs (Toure, Skrtel, Wisdom, Kelly, Coates, and Ilori) versus 1 LCB (Agger), just bought another LCB (Sakho) so we can play him in RCB?

    I mean, if the Transfer Committee really thought that the RCB Position was the Problem, then why didn't we just buy another RCB then?

    Unless they thought that a LCB would solve the RCB Problem instead of buying our 7th RCB.

    Or you know, BR could just drop Agger, play Sakho and pair him with any of our 6 RCBs.

    When you see someone of the quality of Sakho available on the market and for the price he was available at, you do all you can to sign him up. Similar to Özil to Arsenal, though there are differences between us and them in wanting the players we both ended up getting.

    Sakho offers more than just ability. The guy is a leader and has always been just that. He will command respect and organise our defence. He has been that from an early age (17 or 18). He'll lay it all on the line. Nothing is half hearted.

    IMO it's quite simple. We were trying to offload Skrtel and Coates, but once the latter was injured on international duty, Skrtel had to stay. Then Sakho became 100% available, he showed a willingness to sign and we got him. Coates will be gone by next summer. Skrtel's performance v United has clouded things somewhat. Also factor in Cissokho and Johnson's injuries as well.

    Maybe it's just me, but I honestly expect us to see us play 352 quite a bit this season.


  • #801
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Agger to DM will not happen. Not agile enough, not quick enough to distribute and would need to reign in his instinct to glide forward.

    No one in safe from being dropped, regardless of their standing. Best pairing starts.


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  • #802
    prettyboy81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭prettyboy81


    Nice agruments to be having with the options available at CB in the team. IMO you pick your best players, therefore, Sakho & Agger will be the pairing if we maintain 4 at the back.


  • #803
    Raif Severance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,901 ✭✭✭Raif Severance


    fangee wrote: »
    You're moaning for the sake if it.

    Kelly and Wisdom have only played RB for us. Coates is out injured long term.

    So you're left with 2 RCB's in Toure and Skrtel.

    I'm leaving it there as I've realised you're probably looking for a nonsensical argument.

    I'm moaning for the sake of it? Sorry Mate, but you've completely missed the Point.

    The Transfer Committee bought 2 CBs during Deadline Day, Ilori and Sakho.

    If they thought that the RCB Position was the Problem, then why didn't they buy 1 RCB with Experience like Lovren, Toby, etc., instead of trying Sakho and see if he can fit there?

    Instead, they bought another Prospect in Ilori, who BTW cost just a few millions less than the 2 Names I've mentioned before.

    We could have had Sakho and Toby as our additions to our CB Options this Season, but we didn't, and I'm wondering why?


  • #804
    Knex*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    I'd say Rodgers will keep team fairly similar for a few weeks as its hard to change a winning team, even if he believes the 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 is what will suit the club best.

    I'm with Nuri on this though, I do expect him to lean towards that system when Suarez is back and we have everyone fit and able.


  • #805
    billy2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭billy2012


    Nuri Sahin wrote: »
    When you see someone of the quality of Sakho available on the market and for the price he was available at, you do all you can to sign him up. Similar to Özil to Arsenal, though there are differences between us and them in wanting the players we both ended up getting.

    Sakho offers more than just ability. The guy is a leader and has always been just that. He will command respect and organise our defence. He has been that from an early age (17 or 18). He'll lay it all on the line. Nothing is half hearted.

    IMO it's quite simple. We were trying to offload Skrtel and Coates, but once the latter was injured on international duty, Skrtel had to stay. Then Sakho became 100% available, he showed a willingness to sign and we got him. Coates will be gone by next summer. Skrtel's performance v United has clouded things somewhat. Also factor in Cissokho and Johnson's injuries as well.

    Maybe it's just me, but I honestly expect us to see us play 352 quite a bit this season.

    Was saying this myself the other day.

    Who would you use as the back 3 and where? Who takes the left spot and who takes the centre?

    It's a pity that Johnson and Cissokho are out.


  • #806
    Nuri Sahin
    Site Banned Posts: 26,456 ✭✭✭✭Nuri Sahin


    billy2012 wrote: »
    Was saying this myself the other day.

    Who would you use as the back 3 and where?

    It's a pity that Johnson and Cissokho are out.

    Probably..

    Toure - Sakho/Agger - Agger/Sakho

    Sakho and Toure are certs to start for me.

    Agger of old would have been fine, but he turns like a tugboat at times over the past 14 months or so. But considering his position in the team, I can't see him being dropped any time soon.

    Skrtel as I said above, his performance last weekend has clouded a few opinions. If we're taking each game individually, it'd be harsh dropping him and to be fair to him, he has shown he can play 352 on the odd occasion we've used it.

    If Ilori was more experienced then he is as well as you'd imagine with his natural pace he'd suit playing the high line that would be required with three defenders at the back. Too early to ask him to that now.

    Wisdom is raw but has the pace to play in that formation later down the line.

    Cissokho and Johnson/Wisdom/Agger would be my wing backs.

    Moses would be the one effectively missing out in the starting XI.


  • #807
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Raif Severance wrote: »
    So a Club that already has 6 RCBs (Toure, Skrtel, Wisdom, Kelly, Coates, and Ilori) versus 1 LCB (Agger), just bought another LCB (Sakho) so we can play him in RCB?

    I mean, if the Transfer Committee really thought that the RCB Position was the Problem, then why didn't we just buy another RCB then?

    Unless they thought that a LCB would solve the RCB Problem instead of buying our 7th RCB.

    Or you know, BR could just drop Agger, play Sakho and pair him with any of our 6 RCBs.


    Kelly and Wisdom are now RCBs? Funny I thought that between them they only have one game at RCB.

    Ilori is still nothing more than potential no matter how much he gets bigged up online. A quick look at how many senior games he has played puts him firmly in the same potential bracket as Luis Alberto.

    Coates? The guy that our current manager and the previous manager rarely played? Not to mention the small matter of him being injured.


    Then we have Toure and Skrtel. The former looks to have been brought in to replace Carragher and be the back up CB to the starting duo. The latter has looked badly out of favour with the manager and the fact he was replaced by a 35 year old Carragher last season does not speak too well of his chances.

    I would argue that yes we will play Sakho at RCB once his settles, and that with the exception of him every other CB that we have been linked with this sumer (even after Toure was got) was one that plays in the RCB role.

    For me it is very simple. If Sakho hits form then it does not matter a damn how well Toure or Agger play because in my eyes an inform Sakho is a superior player to either, and either of Agger or Toure would make for a good foil for him, but if what Rodgers wants is a back line that is comfortable on the ball, then the obvious partner for Sakho would be Agger, and if that pairing is the one Rodgers wants then Sakho at RCB look more likely to succeed than trying to put Agger there.


  • #808
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Raif Severance wrote: »
    I'm moaning for the sake of it? Sorry Mate, but you've completely missed the Point.

    The Transfer Committee bought 2 CBs during Deadline Day, Ilori and Sakho.

    If they thought that the RCB Position was the Problem, then why didn't they buy 1 RCB with Experience like Lovren, Toby, etc., instead of trying Sakho and see if he can fit there?

    Instead, they bought another Prospect in Ilori, who BTW cost just a few millions less than the 2 Names I've mentioned before.

    We could have had Sakho and Toby as our additions to our CB Options this Season, but we didn't, and I'm wondering why?


    Maybe they went for Sakho because he is a far better player than Lovern and Alderweireld, and that it was a gamble worth taking as a result.

    If Sakho at RCB was 75% as effective as he has been as a LCB then the likes of Lovern still would be an inferior player to him.

    Sakho is a very left sided player, or at least has been used on the left for most of his career (just like Agger), but he has shown far more adaptability than Agger ever has with regards to playing on the right side, and unlike Agger he has shown that he is comfortable shooting and passing with his right foot.

    I don't see any point at all in wondering why we did not go for the likes of Lovern once it became clear a player like Sakho was interested in joining. The gulf in quality between them is a large one.


  • #809
    Kess73
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Nuri Sahin wrote: »
    When you see someone of the quality of Sakho available on the market and for the price he was available at, you do all you can to sign him up. Similar to Özil to Arsenal, though there are differences between us and them in wanting the players we both ended up getting.

    Sakho offers more than just ability. The guy is a leader and has always been just that. He will command respect and organise our defence. He has been that from an early age (17 or 18). He'll lay it all on the line. Nothing is half hearted.

    IMO it's quite simple. We were trying to offload Skrtel and Coates, but once the latter was injured on international duty, Skrtel had to stay. Then Sakho became 100% available, he showed a willingness to sign and we got him. Coates will be gone by next summer. Skrtel's performance v United has clouded things somewhat. Also factor in Cissokho and Johnson's injuries as well.

    Maybe it's just me, but I honestly expect us to see us play 352 quite a bit this season.


    I think it is a real possibility


    Mignolet
    Toure
    Sakho
    Agger
    Johnson
    Enrique




    Skrtel, Cissokho, Wisdom, Kelly, and Ilori can play the back up roles.


    And it gives us the option of having an midfield duo with an attacking trio, or a midfield trio (using an AM) with an attacking duo.


  • #810
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Kelly and Wisdom are now RCBs? Funny I thought that between them they only have one game at RCB.

    Ilori is still nothing more than potential no matter how much he gets bigged up online. A quick look at how many senior games he has played puts him firmly in the same potential bracket as Luis Alberto.

    Coates? The guy that our current manager and the previous manager rarely played? Not to mention the small matter of him being injured.


    Then we have Toure and Skrtel. The former looks to have been brought in to replace Carragher and be the back up CB to the starting duo. The latter has looked badly out of favour with the manager and the fact he was replaced by a 35 year old Carragher last season does not speak too well of his chances.

    I would argue that yes we will play Sakho at RCB once his settles, and that with the exception of him every other CB that we have been linked with this sumer (even after Toure was got) was one that plays in the RCB role.

    For me it is very simple. If Sakho hits form then it does not matter a damn how well Toure or Agger play because in my eyes an inform Sakho is a superior player to either, and either of Agger or Toure would make for a good foil for him, but if what Rodgers wants is a back line that is comfortable on the ball, then the obvious partner for Sakho would be Agger, and if that pairing is the one Rodgers wants then Sakho at RCB look more likely to succeed than trying to put Agger there.

    The amount of times this gets trotted out on here is mind boggling. Kelly broke into the team in 2008 afaik and hasn't had a game at CB yet!

    Wisdom has had 1 wasn't it, and it was a shocker for the lad.

    I'd be suprised if Wisdom gets another game in that position again this season.

    I'd be suprised if Kelly ever plays at CB.


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  • #811
    Nuri Sahin
    Site Banned Posts: 26,456 ✭✭✭✭Nuri Sahin


    Kess73 wrote: »
    I think it is a real possibility


    Mignolet
    Toure
    Sakho
    Agger
    Johnson
    Enrique




    Skrtel, Cissokho, Wisdom, Kelly, and Ilori can play the back up roles.


    And it gives us the option of having an midfield duo with an attacking trio, or a midfield trio (using an AM) with an attacking duo.

    Tad surprised. Thought you'd rather have Cissokho at LWB considering his ability in attack in comparison to Enrique.


This discussion has been closed.
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