STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

dilljen · 05-09-2013 08:13PM

Hi,

I ripped out my timber fireplace last year to install my Stanley Oisin stove and had to fit a whole new marble fireplace with an extended hearth in the process. Ended up quite an expensive job in the end.

My stove is situated right outside the fireplace opening sitting on the extended hearth. It is connected to the chimney flue using an 8" to 4" solid steel reducer and a 4" flexi pipe from the reducer on to the rear entry of the stove.

My problem is that I can't clean the chimney properly. If I use the rods and brush from the roof (which is not easy) the soot blocks up at the steel reducer and is very hard to clear from the stove outlet itself. I don't want to take out the stove to do this job as it is fixed in place. If I go from the stove end with a 4" brush and rods this will be useless in the main chimney flue as it is 8" in size. Any ideas?

DamienClarkeV · 05-09-2013 08:35PM

dilljen wrote: »

Hi,

I ripped out my timber fireplace last year to install my Stanley Oisin stove and had to fit a whole new marble fireplace with an extended hearth in the process. Ended up quite an expensive job in the end.

My stove is situated right outside the fireplace opening sitting on the extended hearth. It is connected to the chimney flue using an 8" to 4" solid steel reducer and a 4" flexi pipe from the reducer on to the rear entry of the stove.

My problem is that I can't clean the chimney properly. If I use the rods and brush from the roof (which is not easy) the soot blocks up at the steel reducer and is very hard to clear from the stove outlet itself. I don't want to take out the stove to do this job as it is fixed in place. If I go from the stove end with a 4" brush and rods this will be useless in the main chimney flue as it is 8" in size. Any ideas?

Sorry if this sounds stupid but just an idea, if you inserted the 4" brush past 4" reducer into chimney and someone else swept from roof down the soot should fall past your brush and you could pull the soot out den just repeat
this till satisfied.. Again i'm no expert but would be something i would try

heliguyheliguy · 05-09-2013 09:40PM

I'm thinking of fitting a boiler stove and have read a lot here and talked to few people and feel comfortable taking on the task except for a few points.

I need to fit a new duel coil insulated tank, fit a reservoir tank for the heating system; as high as possible and make sure it is providing decent pressure in the system.
I need fit a room vent and CO detector, gonna use them panels they sell for the backing and a granite base.

Questions

1. what is the recommended size for the base?
2. what do I need to do for the flue?
3. what else am I missing?

I would like to understand why I can't use the existing chimney, after all it worked fine with the existing fireplace for 20 years.

I'll like to be clear that I am not disagreeing with the use of the liner, this is a genuine query what is different?

DamienClarkeV · 05-09-2013 09:55PM

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

I'm thinking of fitting a boiler stove and have read a lot here and talked to few people and feel comfortable taking on the task except for a few points.

I need to fit a new duel coil insulated tank, fit a reservoir tank for the heating system; as high as possible and make sure it is providing decent pressure in the system.
I need fit a room vent and CO detector, gonna use them panels they sell for the backing and a granite base.

Questions

1. what is the recommended size for the base?
2. what do I need to do for the flue?
3. what else am I missing?

I would like to understand why I can't use the existing chimney, after all it worked fine with the existing fireplace for 20 years.

I'll like to be clear that I am not disagreeing with the use of the liner, this is a genuine query what is different?

been reading up alot about stoves as i'm thinkin about putting 1 in aswell, think the base has to b 12 inches in front of stove 6" past both sides and i think 4" or more clearance at back of stove to wall, i stand to be corrected but you get flexi flue for the chimney to help with overall efficency of the stove(think its a requirement by law also??) as stove generates way more heat than your open fire

Robbie.G · 05-09-2013 10:13PM

ronan0 wrote: »

Tell me what requirement you believe I am not addressing.

You do realise building regulations are ever only a GUIDANCE as to how to acheive certain engineering requirements and standards.

(Let's not memtion how Irish building regulations are often utilised to try and rig the market and protect incumbents from competition by creating as many perceived barriers to entry as possible etc.)

Now, I have not gone into this yet, because I was hoping for some advice first, beyond the old knee jerk stuff. I can sit down with the regs as well as anyone. But I was hoping for some feedback first, so I don't have to read cover to cover.

Is there anyone on here, engineering-minded who can tell me what I have missed, in terms of the spirit of the requirements?

Air supply is good, chimney and discharge is good (I know I have good draw, and I have inspected the existing clay lining), protection of building is good, debris collection space is good, and so on...

I can do any test to ensure air supply, discharge of products of combustion, system is sealed, protection of building etc, is within the requirements.

Or are there are only professional installers and naive consumers on this thread, then?

Building regs are exactly what they are regulations.
TGD are technical guidance
Regarding your installation do you intend to place your stove directly on the hearth if so you will need to change your hearth to a larger size as you need to have 225mm in front of the stove and 150mm to each side.
The fluing arrangement is half right yes you have to have a debree collection point but with out filling the void at the back you will very possibly have draw problems also I don't know a manufacturer that will accept that method of fluing.
If you want to make sure contact the stove manufacturer and check what they require in fluing arrangements.

Robbie.G · 05-09-2013 10:20PM

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

I'm thinking of fitting a boiler stove and have read a lot here and talked to few people and feel comfortable taking on the task except for a few points.

I need to fit a new duel coil insulated tank, fit a reservoir tank for the heating system; as high as possible and make sure it is providing decent pressure in the system.
I need fit a room vent and CO detector, gonna use them panels they sell for the backing and a granite base.

Questions

1. what is the recommended size for the base?
2. what do I need to do for the flue?
3. what else am I missing?

I would like to understand why I can't use the existing chimney, after all it worked fine with the existing fireplace for 20 years.

I'll like to be clear that I am not disagreeing with the use of the liner, this is a genuine query what is different?

If you intend to do this work yourself make sure you get correct advice on this as solid fuel heating is the most dangerous form of heating if not done right.
The hearth should be a min of 225mm in front and 160mm to both sides and then it's depends on distances from combustibles.
You do not need to fit a flexi liner but it will make the stove more efficient and a better draw as t it will help keep up the temperature if the flue gases and not cool to quickly with produces condesation which can cause a lot of damage to flues and stoves

Robbie.G · 05-09-2013 10:22PM

dilljen wrote: »

Hi,

I ripped out my timber fireplace last year to install my Stanley Oisin stove and had to fit a whole new marble fireplace with an extended hearth in the process. Ended up quite an expensive job in the end.

My stove is situated right outside the fireplace opening sitting on the extended hearth. It is connected to the chimney flue using an 8" to 4" solid steel reducer and a 4" flexi pipe from the reducer on to the rear entry of the stove.

My problem is that I can't clean the chimney properly. If I use the rods and brush from the roof (which is not easy) the soot blocks up at the steel reducer and is very hard to clear from the stove outlet itself. I don't want to take out the stove to do this job as it is fixed in place. If I go from the stove end with a 4" brush and rods this will be useless in the main chimney flue as it is 8" in size. Any ideas?

This is a common problem with flue reducers they need to be swept from the top and then vacuumed from the bottom at the reducer.
A flexi pipe should not be used within 600mm of the stove as they are not designed for the heat at that point the connecting flue pipe should be solid

crock! · 05-09-2013 10:38PM

I came across a house where they got some guy to fit the stove .the fool put the reducer in upside down.now when you sweep from the top down the soot all gaters around the reducer.
That would be where the chimney fire starts.people also putting insert stoves in with out takeing the fire back out.

heliguyheliguy · 06-09-2013 12:52AM

Next question, I live in a bungalow so I have short straight brick lined chimney, is a flexi the right choice in my case, would a lined straight pipe be the better option and are they available?
And since I am not restricted for space what is the optimal size for the flue?

Robbie.G · 06-09-2013 07:48AM

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Next question, I live in a bungalow so I have short straight brick lined chimney, is a flexi the right choice in my case, would a lined straight pipe be the better option and are they available?
And since I am not restricted for space what is the optimal size for the flue?

In that case your chimney is referred to as unlined and it does need to be lined.The best option is a flexi liner.Flexiliner fitted with register plate at bottom back filled with vermiculite 150mm diameter liner.

MugMugs · 06-09-2013 09:03AM

crock! wrote: »

people also putting insert stoves in with out takeing the fire back out.

Are there not Insets that can be installed with the fireback in situ?

heliguyheliguy · 06-09-2013 09:44AM

Robbie.G wrote: »

In that case your chimney is referred to as unlined and it does need to be lined.The best option is a flexi liner.Flexiliner fitted with register plate at bottom back filled with vermiculite 150mm diameter liner.

Thanks for the reply, just to be sure of what your saying.
I don't need an insulated liner then? fit a 150mm ss flexi and back fill the chimney with vermiculite?

Robbie.G · 06-09-2013 09:54AM

heliguyheliguy wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, just to be sure of what your saying.
I don't need an insulated liner then? fit a 150mm ss flexi and back fill the chimney with vermiculite?

By backfilling it with vermiculite your insulating it.

Gest · 06-09-2013 01:31PM

trishasaffron wrote: »

Hi

Am looking to get a small non-boiler freestanding stove supplied and installed. I have been around a few stores but when I phoned to see about getting a specific quote for the installation I was told it would cost 100 euro for them to call out and give a quote ...............this to be taken off the price if I order from them. Does that sound right? Seems to me that I'd have no option but to go with them then and would defeat the purpose of the quote.

In my case the quotes came for free. Got two different companies and ended up with boru fiachra inset. Took half a day to install in standard fireplace. So far so good. Have to wait for cooler weather to test it properly.

Richard tea · 07-09-2013 07:03PM

Not even sure this calculation is possible but ill ask anyway. I have am insert stove that rated 4 Kw output. What is 4 kw in size or amount of radiators?

Eg.. How much Kw does a standard double radiator give out?

Brianne · 07-09-2013 08:42PM

Richard is that 4kw to the room? Whats the total output of stove? Our insert is 3 to room and 14 to rads.

Richard tea · 07-09-2013 08:58PM

Brianne wrote: »

Richard is that 4kw to the room? Whats the total output of stove? Our insert is 3 to room and 14 to rads.

Its a non boiler. So 4 kw to room I assume? Just interested to know is the 4 kw from the stove the equivalent of 1, 2, 3, or more standards radiators.

heliguyheliguy · 07-09-2013 09:23PM

Richard tea wrote: »

Its a non boiler. So 4 kw to room I assume? Just interested to know is the 4 kw from the stove the equivalent of 1, 2, 3, or more standards radiators.

I can't really answer your question, as just learning about this myself but thought this might be helpful. http://www.woodburningstovesandflues.co.uk/output-calculator-page-15

Brianne · 07-09-2013 09:24PM

Sorry Richard. I don't know that.

premier10 · 07-09-2013 09:25PM

Hi guys, could'nt find a clear enough answer to my query so here it goes.
I want to put in a stove in the main sitting room replacing fire place, however ideally would like to be able to heat radiators off this as well whilst also retaining Ofch if possible.
So my questions are can this be done? How do the radiators connect to stove? And what type of stoves should I be considering?
The house is two storey 25 years old stove chimney is on gable end whilst current hot press is on opposite end of house upstairs, what sort of plumbing changes would be needed
Finally anyone know what kind of money this would cost ?

pissed · 08-09-2013 01:36PM

Hi all, about to install a Boru Chieftan inset boiler stove and looking for advice on the clay pipe adaptor. Do you butter it up with fire cement and shove it up the clay pipe as far as it goes? I have my backboiler removed from the fire and had a look up the chimney. I can see my clay pots and then they veer off at a slope. Do I push it up until its locked at the slope? Also is there any good way of sealing it to prevent anything seeping down the adaptor and coming in on the stove?
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Robbie.G · 08-09-2013 02:05PM

pissed wrote: »

Hi all, about to install a Boru Chieftan inset boiler stove and looking for advice on the clay pipe adaptor. Do you butter it up with fire cement and shove it up the clay pipe as far as it goes? I have my backboiler removed from the fire and had a look up the chimney. I can see my clay pots and then they veer off at a slope. Do I push it up until its locked at the slope? Also is there any good way of sealing it to prevent anything seeping down the adaptor and coming in on the stove?
[IMG][/img]

You reach in to where the clay liners start wire brush that area butter up the adaptor with fire cement and then push up and tap into place with a block of timber and a hammer then dress off the excess fire cement.
You have to check the measurement of your flue as the adapters are offset so when you go to fit the adaptor it needs to be lined up right.
Then when that's all done you need to measure the distance between adaptor and flue spigot to get your length of flue then fit your stove

pissed · 08-09-2013 02:27PM

Thanks for the reply, I pushed the adaptor up but its a loose fit, only gets tight when I push up to the offset in the clay pipes, the top of the adaptor measures 7 1/4 inches at the top and seems to slightly widen but not that much. Would they have given me the wrong size and also when you say dress off the excess cement do you mean from below or would I need to put my hand up the pipe and dress from the clay pipe down?

Robbie.G · 08-09-2013 02:44PM

pissed wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, I pushed the adaptor up but its a loose fit, only gets tight when I push up to the offset in the clay pipes, the top of the adaptor measures 7 1/4 inches at the top and seems to slightly widen but not that much. Would they have given me the wrong size and also when you say dress off the excess cement do you mean from below or would I need to put my hand up the pipe and dress from the clay pipe down?

If the adaptors a loose fit it shouldn't be used as it will not seal properly and in the event of condesation forming in the flue it could run back down the outside of the adaptor.
To dress off of you can reach inside pipe and do it from top that's even better but I would batter it up till its tight on the flue

pissed · 08-09-2013 03:09PM

Thanks for that Robbie, that was my main concern about leakage on the outside of the adaptor. I will give the supplier a ring in the morning and see if he has a slightly bigger one. So even with no cement on it, it should be a tight fit in the first clay pipe is what your saying.

Robbie.G · 08-09-2013 03:18PM

pissed wrote: »

Thanks for that Robbie, that was my main concern about leakage on the outside of the adaptor. I will give the supplier a ring in the morning and see if he has a slightly bigger one. So even with no cement on it, it should be a tight fit in the first clay pipe is what your saying.

That's grand remember its the flue that has the potential to kill someone so be very careful and make sure your confident with fitting if your not sure get someone in and in all cases always fit a carbon monoxide alarm

pissed · 08-09-2013 03:23PM

Thanks Robbie, just climbed up under to chimney and measured the first clay pot. I have it at about 200mm or just short of 8 inches. The one supplied is 185 mm and tapers out a small bit. My brother in law is a plumber but never fitted a stove before. I will be giving him a hand but was just unsure on the adaptor. From your experience are there adaptors with nearer the 200mm sizing?

Thanks again for all your help:)

Robbie.G · 08-09-2013 03:56PM

pissed wrote: »

Thanks Robbie, just climbed up under to chimney and measured the first clay pot. I have it at about 200mm or just short of 8 inches. The one supplied is 185 mm and tapers out a small bit. My brother in law is a plumber but never fitted a stove before. I will be giving him a hand but was just unsure on the adaptor. From your experience are there adaptors with nearer the 200mm sizing?

Thanks again for all your help:)

Clay flue liners are 8inch they are the standard size so change your adaptor

RubyGirl · 08-09-2013 07:28PM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=342614299152945&set=pb.335044436576598.-2207520000.1378664177.&type=3&theater

Hi guys, has anyone installed one of these in their home. It's just what i'm looking for and would save me a fortune if put in right I think. I have an open fire with a back boiler already.

brian_gall85 · 08-09-2013 08:11PM

DamienClarkeV wrote: »

Hi, i'm currently in the process of fixing up my grannies house that we are hoping to move into late as october early november. Anyway the old stanley 8 range is cracked in a number of places so think it wise to replace with a boiler stove to heat 8 rads and domestic water. Got a good price for an Olymberyl aidan but weary that seller is only giving me 1year warranty on boiler & 5year parts when it should be 5years boiler and 5 year parts?
Aswell as that the room I would be putting it into is the dinning room approx 13'x13' (calculated 3.03kW to heat it) were the aidan will generate 5.5kW to room. So my question is, Is the stove to big for what i need or could i just leave doors open into other rooms to draw heat away? or is it just a matter of finding the right amount of fuel to burn?
Other stoves i'm drawn to are 1) The Stanley Erin
2) Blacksmith Forge

Any info greatly appreciated

Extra info: I calculated total kW output needed for house is 18.66(3kW added for boiler) and Btu required is 53431.92. My father in the past 10 years or so dry lined all of the solid block walls and insulated the attic plus pvc windows and doors. The house is very easy to heat just looking to do away with oil heating

Have the Forge installed since last March, not been tested by a really harsh winter yet but it heats a very large room and 2 double rads & 6 single with ease in an hour from lighting. Very pleased.

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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