1 in 6 believe immigration has benefited the UK?

enda1 · 03-09-2013 03:20PM

Guyanachronism wrote: »

Are they? While Ireland and UK are governed by free movement of EU persons for the single market, they aren't part of Schegen.

Ireland and the UK has the common travel area. Which is a lot more liberal than EU free movement into the UK or Ireland. UK still has border controls and requires passports, you don't need a passport as an Irish person entering the UK.

You're mixing up the concept of border control and residency/right to work etc. agreements.

Guyanachronism · 03-09-2013 03:46PM

enda1 wrote: »

You're mixing up the concept of border control and residency/right to work etc. agreements.

No the principle of the common travel area is that Irish or British people will never be treated as foreigners in the other jurisdiction.

Irish people in the UK automatically get settled status, while a EEA national can be asked to leave after 90 days.

Ireland is more lenient to British people coming to Ireland that EEA nationals. They are immune to deportation for example.

The common travel area is actually poorly defined, but it further reachin than just free movement.

Grayson · 03-09-2013 04:01PM

wendell borton wrote: »

....and if you do your a racist.

No, you're not allowed to have racist opinions on immigration. There are plenty of people, both right and left wing, who want to be able to have a rational discussion about immigration. Most people on both sides are in favour of it so long as there is a system of balances. It's just the far wings of both sides try to polarise the debate to help themselves.

There are however far too many right-wing nut jobs who try to twist the discussion. They claim persecution by the politically correct left and act like they're martyrs. The fact is that they are racists who believe that everyone who ever came to their country should go back to "bongo-bongo land".

enda1 · 03-09-2013 04:12PM

Guyanachronism wrote: »

No the principle of the common travel area is that Irish or British people will never be treated as foreigners in the other jurisdiction.

Irish people in the UK automatically get settled status, while a EEA national can be asked to leave after 90 days.

Ireland is more lenient to British people coming to Ireland that EEA nationals. They are immune to deportation for example.

The common travel area is actually poorly defined, but it further reachin than just free movement.

But that's not the Common Travel Area. The CTA is about freedom of movement. It's other bilateral treaties which govern the issues of right to live, deportation etc.

MadsL · 03-09-2013 04:28PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJX5XHnONTI

osarusan · 03-09-2013 05:00PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I've no doubt the British taxpayer isn't happy about having this drain on their taxes either and it's hard to blame them.

Which drain on their taxes are we talking about?

Hazys · 03-09-2013 05:31PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55sjaEDJ65k

Quimby: Are these idiots getting dumber or just louder?

Security guy: Dumber, sir.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 03-09-2013 06:08PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

There was an influx of immigrants into Ireland over a very short period of time when the Eastern block countries joined up.

Very little opportunity for the country to get used to what was happening, when the country went bust while many went home others didn't and remain on social welfare.

Yeah that's right all immigrants are on SW:rolleyes:

old hippy · 03-09-2013 06:16PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Yeah that's right all immigrants are on SW:rolleyes:

I must remind my ex, an immigrant, who runs a successful business back in Ireland

Galwayguy35 · 03-09-2013 07:56PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Yeah that's right all immigrants are on SW:rolleyes:

I didn't say all of them so no need for the eye roll, but a fair few are, IMO if they can't get work after 6 months they should be sent home.

Look after our own people first.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 03-09-2013 07:58PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I didn't say all of them so no need for the eye roll, but a fair few are, IMO if they can't get work after 6 months they should be sent home.

Look after our own people first.

We're Europeans, they are our own.
Thank the stars that the British,Germans, and French didn't adopt your attitude when for decades their taxpayers poured billions into the physical,cultural, and industrial infrastructure of this country!

enda1 · 03-09-2013 07:59PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I didn't say all of them so no need for the eye roll, but a fair few are, IMO if they can't get work after 6 months they should be sent home.

Look after our own people first.

If it turned out that there were more Irish citizens abroad on social welfare than there are non-Irish in Ireland on social welfare then how would you feel?

Galwayguy35 · 03-09-2013 08:04PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

We're Europeans, they are our own.
Thank the stars that the British,Germans, and French didn't adopt your attitude when for decades their taxpayers poured billions into the physical,cultural, and industrial infrastructure of this country!

Actually the Germans and French taxpayers are sick of propping up countries like Ireland and it's hard to blame them.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 03-09-2013 08:06PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Actually the Germans and French taxpayers are sick of propping up countries like Ireland and it's hard to blame them.

Piss poor attempt at deflection.
D- Must try harder!

Galwayguy35 · 03-09-2013 08:07PM

enda1 wrote: »

If it turned out that there were more Irish citizens abroad on social welfare than there are non-Irish in Ireland on social welfare then how would you feel?

I wouldn't feel anything because it's not happening here just the same as your average Polish person over in Poland isn't too bothered about the Polish on SW over here.

enda1 · 03-09-2013 08:08PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wouldn't feel anything because it's not happening here just the same as your average Polish person over in Poland isn't too bothered about the Polish on SW over here.

What? I really don't get you..?

Galwayguy35 · 03-09-2013 08:10PM

enda1 wrote: »

What? I really don't get you..?

I'm saying it's for those countries to sort that out if it is the case.

enda1 · 03-09-2013 08:12PM

I'm talking about Ireland though. If in reaction to you "out with the immigrants on SW", all the rest of the world sent back the Irish on SW in their respective countries, would that scupper your plan for budget and social improvement, or not?

starlit · 03-09-2013 08:12PM

Has it really would it not cost more for the uk?

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 03-09-2013 08:13PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I wouldn't feel anything because it's not happening here just the same as your average Polish person over in Poland isn't too bothered about the Polish on SW over here.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'm saying it's for those countries to sort that out if it is the case.

Its called deflection, its what people do when they have backed themselves into a corner and don't know what else to do.

steddyeddy · 03-09-2013 08:15PM

Galwayguy has a point.

A person shouldn't be coming to a country to claim SW benifits at all. If this happens it is wrong. He didn't say all immigrants are on SW.

My other views are that people with criminal records shouldn't be let into the country. If I was going to another country I would expect to learn the langauge also. Why should I go If I couldn't make that effort. Other countries owe me nothing. If I want to go there I should prove I'm of benifit to that country.

Galwayguy35 · 03-09-2013 08:16PM

enda1 wrote: »

I'm talking about Ireland though. If in reaction to you "out with the immigrants on SW", all the rest of the world sent back the Irish on SW in their respective countries, would that scupper your plan for budget and social improvement, or not?

Well as far as I know in countries like Australia you have a certain period of time to find work after which you have to leave, seems to work out ok for them.

enda1 · 03-09-2013 08:17PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well as far as I know in countries like Australia you have a certain period of time to find work after which you have to leave, seems to work out ok for them.

We're in the EU and have signed the accompanying treaties. This would require Ireland to leave the EU. Would you care to answer my question though?

Legs.Eleven · 03-09-2013 08:19PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Galwayguy has a point.

A person shouldn't be coming to a country to claim SW benifits at all. If this happens it is wrong. He didn't say all immigrants are on SW.

My other views are that people with criminal records shouldn't be let into the country. If I was going to another country I would expect to learn the langauge also. Why should I go If I couldn't make that effort. Other countries owe me nothing. If I want to go there I should prove I'm of benifit to that country.

What part of, "People can't just turn up to the country and start claiming" confuses people?

steddyeddy · 03-09-2013 08:21PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

What part of, "People can't just turn up to the country and start claiming" confuses people?

What part of my post confused you? I didn't say that I said it was wrong go over to a country with the intention of claiming SW.

sabat · 03-09-2013 08:22PM

Guyanachronism wrote: »

I think the headline "Torygraph narrative effectively misinforming public opinion" would have been more fitting.

British public wrong about almost everything

Immigration: some 31 per cent of the population is thought to consist of recent immigrants, when the figure is actually 13 per cent. Even including illegal immigrants, the figure is only about 15 per cent.

That's going by the census figures which are hardly going to be accurate in this instance. According to large retailers such as Tesco and utility companies, the actual population of the UK may be closer to 80 million than the official 60. So, for once, the swivel-eyed loons may be closer to the truth than you think.

According to the Conservative MP Greg Hands, a leading figure at the TESCO supermarket chain said in 2008 that “they estimate the population of the UK to be closer to 80 million, based on the volume of certain staples that they sell.”
This is backed up a major, non-commercial agricultural institution which reckoned that there are 77 million people currently in the UK, this figure again based on how much we eat.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/333097/Tories-fail-to-solve-immigration-crisis-that-blights-Britain

steddyeddy · 03-09-2013 08:23PM

I would also say people should have a desired skill set. My desired skill set is useless in some countries so I wouldn't aim to work there.

boarsboard · 03-09-2013 08:24PM

as populations get older you need immigrants
as workers and consumers,

we are moving into a global society,

most people don't like immigrants as they take jobs and housing

many start buisnesses and have university degrees
I was looking in the sunday newspaper at irish that are running worldwide companys

if only we could have got them to stay,we train them and then they leave

Legs.Eleven · 03-09-2013 08:25PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

What part of my post confused you? I didn't say that I said it was wrong go over to a country with the intention of claiming SW.

....but by saying that it seems like you're implying it's happening in Ireland and I'm saying it isn't.

As an Irish citizen, I can't even claim the dole, never mind a Nigerian or Polish person. I haven't paid enough tax credits into the system as I haven't lived there for years hence I'm not entitled.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 03-09-2013 08:26PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well as far as I know in countries like Australia you have a certain period of time to find work after which you have to leave, seems to work out ok for them.

Australia is not in the EU, you do know that the overwhelming majority of non Irish citizens in Ireland are EU Citizens fully entitled to be here?

Again, very poor deflection and worse attempt at moving the goalposts!

1 in 6 believe immigration has benefited the UK?

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