In what ways is Germany not fecking it up

dxhound2005 · 31-08-2013 01:26PM

How come there are 3 million unemployed in Germany if it is so perfect?

My name is URL · 31-08-2013 01:27PM

Germany isn't as perfect as people like to think it is. There's a newly constructed airport in Berlin, unopened since it was completed last year and riddled with problems (construction, ownership etc). It's costing taxpayers millions of euro every month, while politicians squabble and bitch about it.

Officials can't even figure out how to turn the lights off. Thousands of light bulbs illuminate the gigantic main terminal and unused parking lots around the clock, a massive energy and cost drain that appears to be the result of a computer system that's so sophisticated it's almost impossible to operate.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/04/08/berlin-airport-fiasco-an-embarrassment-for-germans/2062533/

The_Valeyard · 31-08-2013 01:40PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Germany isn't as perfect as people like to think it is. There's a newly constructed airport in Berlin, unopened since it was completed last year and riddled with problems (construction, ownership etc). It's costing taxpayers millions of euro every month, while politicians squabble and bitch about it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/04/08/berlin-airport-fiasco-an-embarrassment-for-germans/2062533/

That would be Schoenefeld airport?

Looks lovely. But of course Aer Lingus has to pull up at that crummy terminal like everyone else.
Was expecting a much better airport for the Capital of Germany.

anto9 · 31-08-2013 01:41PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How come there are 3 million unemployed in Germany if it is so perfect?

There will always be those who dont want to work ,or are not able to work ,through llness or mental health problems .Also many of those 3M will be in East Germany ,where there are still pockets of undevelopment and poverty .

Tom M · 31-08-2013 01:48PM

stretchdoe wrote: »

They get us/Irish taxpayers to bail out their banks/bondholders loans to private institutions having, with the compliance of much of our media and most of our politicians, established the narrative that it's completely 'our fault'.

It's easy enough when your victims are willing prey.

If you have a pension they probably bailed you out too.

T-K-O · 31-08-2013 01:50PM

Tom M wrote: »

If you have a pension they probably bailed you out too.

Chicken egg situation, if they weren't so reckless we wouldn't need bailing out :pac:

Wibbs · 31-08-2013 01:59PM

CruelCoin wrote: »

1: They built up the massive manpower and resources to wag the first world war.

Eh they were an industrial giant and imperial nation for a long time before the Great war ever kicked off. That was a clash of European empires and Germany was right up there.

2: Get bombed into the ground, lose majority of working age male population.

1) they didn't get "bombed into the ground". Civilian populations outside of battlefields were of a magnitude lower than what was to come. For a start the technology wasn't there yet for anything ike strategic bombing 2) they lost around 3%(IIRC) of their population. Not close to a majority of working age men.

3: Economic collapse and crippling reparations.

Yes the reparations had a helluva lot to do with that. The Weimar governments response to the inflation over cooked it in a big way though. They handled it badly. Still by the 20's when the US and elsewhere went into a major depression Germany was doing relatively well again. However things weren't all sweetness...

4: Build up massive manpower and resources to wage the second world war.

Oh the Austrian corporal and his cronies built up a strong Germany(with huge industrial help from the US BTW), but it was utterly unsustainable economically and well they knew it, hence they got all invadery. As for massive manpower and resources, they had the former, but were actually quite lacking in the latter. By wars start their army was more horse drawn than mechanised. Their air force while large was often struggling to keep up with demand and requirements. EG in the Battle of Britain, the UK had the same amount of fighters at the start and soon after were producing fighters at a rate twice that of Germany and they had more pilots too. Contrary to popular belief the British weren't nearly in as much danger of losing the battle of Britain as subsequent retellings would have it. Churchill being a clever bugger to his credit knew it too.

5: Get bombed into the ground, lose majority of working age male population.

THis is far more accurate compared to your point 2.

6: Economic collapse and crippling reparations.

Collapse and reparations yes, however the Marshall plan offset quite a bit of that and because it was in the interest of the post war allies to keep Germany sweet they didn't repeat the stupidity of the post great war Versailles treaty.

7: Build up same again to be top of the financial and manufacturing pile.

Your post is riddled with half truths that the Daily Mail mght buy into but reality and history was very different and far more complex. Yes the Germans are a resilient people but attempting to draw comparisons between Ireland and Germany is comparing apples to.. well the planet Neptune.

For a start Ireland was never an industrial nation. The industrial revolution largely passed us by. Save for small areas in the north of the country Ireland in the 18th and 19th centuries was an agrarian society and a largely subsistence one at that. The only empire we had was our huddled masses fcuking off overseas. When we finally gained independence we were economically fcuked, our biggest export by far was farming and our own sons and daughters. The economic minnows of Europe. Our population had also crashed from a height of near 8 million in the mid 19th century to 2 odd. For a nation with a tiny population with no direct experience of an industrial revolution, stuck on the very edge of Europe we've ended up not doing too badly at all. Even though we have had dribbling morons at the helm for more times in our history than not.

It astonishes me.

It astonishes me that so many people here can't see the differences and the nuances of history and geography and prefer to fall on the poor mouth self flagellation all too common here.

dxhound2005 · 31-08-2013 02:04PM

anto9 wrote: »

There will always be those who dont want to work ,or are not able to work ,through llness or mental health problems .Also many of those 3M will be in East Germany ,where there are still pockets of undevelopment and poverty .

I don't think the 3 million would include people unable to work through illness. Surely unemployment statistics are for people seeking work? Germany is not much different than anywhere else when it comes to poverty.

http://www.goethe.de/ges/soz/soz/en2819817.htm

The picture of rich Germans living off our misery which they caused is far from the truth for much of their population.

Lone Stone · 31-08-2013 02:04PM

CruelCoin wrote: »

1: They built up the massive manpower and resources to wag the first world war.
2: Get bombed into the ground, lose majority of working age male population.
3: Economic collapse and crippling reparations.
4: Build up massive manpower and resources to wage the second world war.
5: Get bombed into the ground, lose majority of working age male population.
6: Economic collapse and crippling reparations.
7: Build up same again to be top of the financial and manufacturing pile.

Meanwhile we here have this humongoid pack of flaming retards rocking back and forth hugging their knees moaning "why won't they stop telling us what to do".

They have the answers, they know how it works. They've been to hell and back several times and we tell them to get bent?

It astonishes me.

Im fairly sure you missed the big part about Germany getting debt forgiveness after ww2.

Cody Pomeray · 31-08-2013 02:10PM

Ooh man I have been to Germany they are soooo efficient and organized and perfect like the clubs open till like 6am and they are like real clubs maan, none of this coppers shoite you get here rightsh, and man they really make the unemployed work fcuking hard for their money over there, like there are no lazy sh1ts and they all like shop in lidl man.

yeah i have been to berlin loads of times. festivals and stuff like. amazing beer mean. seriously i am going to move there some day soon. so much better than this dump. some day soon.

anto9 · 31-08-2013 07:21PM

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Ooh man I have been to Germany they are soooo efficient and organized and perfect like the clubs open till like 6am and they are like real clubs maan, none of this coppers shoite you get here rightsh, and man they really make the unemployed work fcuking hard for their money over there, like there are no lazy sh1ts and they all like shop in lidl man.

yeah i have been to berlin loads of times. festivals and stuff like. amazing beer mean. seriously i am going to move there some day soon. so much better than this dump. some day soon.

If you do go ,i hope you improve your English first ,never mind knowing German .
Out of interest what age are you ?

anto9 · 31-08-2013 07:28PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't think the 3 million would include people unable to work through illness. Surely unemployment statistics are for people seeking work? Germany is not much different than anywhere else when it comes to poverty.

http://www.goethe.de/ges/soz/soz/en2819817.htm

The picture of rich Germans living off our misery which they caused is far from the truth for much of their population.

>>Surely unemployment statistics are for people seeking work? Germany is not much different than anywhere else when it comes to poverty.<<

Thats a minor point ,what i am saying is that most of the 3 m are in OOST Deutschland .

Drakares · 31-08-2013 07:47PM

I'm currently living in Germany, and here are a few pure and utter common sense ways of running things that would be so simple to implement.

1: All medical expenses are covered by the state, as are financed by a high health insurance tax on all employed people in the country (which is also very high in Ireland). A German person must visit the Dentist at least once per year for a checkup to keep your teeth in line. If you fail to show up to the dentist and show up 10 years later with your teeth hanging out, you MUST PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.

Plus, their health service is extremely well funded. The average time from calling an ambulance to it arriving is 7 minutes. I needed one before in the country and it arrived within 3 minutes.

2: Work experience and Education. A lot, if not most if German education programmes, be it a degree or a lesser education come accompanied with an 'Ausbildung' or 'Praktikum' in which a huge portion (a lot of the times, half of your time) spent working in the chosen field of study.

Companies here are massive into it, and seriously take on and train up young students soon to be entering the jobs market. For example near me, companies like ZF (Engineering) and European Aeronautics, Defense and Space Agency take on thousands of students every year to train them up on dozens of different professions from HR, to engineering, IT, Accounting and so on. A lot of the times these students end up being offered full time jobs, or at least finish their degrees knowing how real work works.

Ireland has no such program, I done 2 weeks IT work experience when I was studying in Dublin and I was sit down doing monkey work that no one else wanted to do, also was treated as an annoyance instead of someone who wanted to learn.

3: Recycling. The cost of a bottle of coke for example, has 15c added to it, and you get the 15c back when you bring the bottle back. Same goes with cans, glass and so on.

NO ONE here fúcks their tin cans into the normal bins, everything is recycled on a massive scale.

4: People do not borrow beyond what they can pay back. In fact borrowing money from the bank isn't all that common here. Almost everyone I know at home owes the bank some form of thousands from a carloan, mortgage, holiday or something.

5: Grants for education must be payed back to the government (at least 50% of what you've been given) once you've finished your education and are within full time employment. They are extremely lenient with this, and you can pay back €5 per week or .5% of your salary over a period of however long you wish. These grants come with no interest.

6: If you are intelligent and capable, you will get education here. Doesn't matter if you come from a poor family or whatever, there are government sponsored scholarships as well as silly amounts of ways of getting funded for education without the worry of paying it back with interest.

I could keep going but my fingers are getting tired!

Shenshen · 31-08-2013 08:35PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How come there are 3 million unemployed in Germany if it is so perfect?

Out of 80 million inhabintants? That's what, 4%?

Forest Demon · 31-08-2013 08:44PM

Drakares wrote: »

I'm currently living in Germany, and here are a few pure and utter common sense ways of running things that would be so simple to implement.

1: All medical expenses are covered by the state, as are financed by a high health insurance tax on all employed people in the country (which is also very high in Ireland). A German person must visit the Dentist at least once per year for a checkup to keep your teeth in line. If you fail to show up to the dentist and show up 10 years later with your teeth hanging out, you MUST PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.

Plus, their health service is extremely well funded. The average time from calling an ambulance to it arriving is 7 minutes. I needed one before in the country and it arrived within 3 minutes.

2: Work experience and Education. A lot, if not most if German education programmes, be it a degree or a lesser education come accompanied with an 'Ausbildung' or 'Praktikum' in which a huge portion (a lot of the times, half of your time) spent working in the chosen field of study.

Companies here are massive into it, and seriously take on and train up young students soon to be entering the jobs market. For example near me, companies like ZF (Engineering) and European Aeronautics, Defense and Space Agency take on thousands of students every year to train them up on dozens of different professions from HR, to engineering, IT, Accounting and so on. A lot of the times these students end up being offered full time jobs, or at least finish their degrees knowing how real work works.

Ireland has no such program, I done 2 weeks IT work experience when I was studying in Dublin and I was sit down doing monkey work that no one else wanted to do, also was treated as an annoyance instead of someone who wanted to learn.

3: Recycling. The cost of a bottle of coke for example, has 15c added to it, and you get the 15c back when you bring the bottle back. Same goes with cans, glass and so on.

NO ONE here fúcks their tin cans into the normal bins, everything is recycled on a massive scale.

4: People do not borrow beyond what they can pay back. In fact borrowing money from the bank isn't all that common here. Almost everyone I know at home owes the bank some form of thousands from a carloan, mortgage, holiday or something.

5: Grants for education must be payed back to the government (at least 50% of what you've been given) once you've finished your education and are within full time employment. They are extremely lenient with this, and you can pay back €5 per week or .5% of your salary over a period of however long you wish. These grants come with no interest.

6: If you are intelligent and capable, you will get education here. Doesn't matter if you come from a poor family or whatever, there are government sponsored scholarships as well as silly amounts of ways of getting funded for education without the worry of paying it back with interest.

I could keep going but my fingers are getting tired!

I welcome our new Germainian overlords!

Aidric · 31-08-2013 08:47PM

A simple drive through Germany will paint a clear picture. They predominantly drive German cars, which just serves as a tangible interface for the manufacturing powerhouse that is Germany. They build high quality desirable products both for export and the home market, in turn stimulating the economy.

That plus they have a strong work ethic and in general are a prudent people.

mikemac1 · 31-08-2013 09:00PM

Secondary schools are streamed and while anyone can make it to university where you went to school will affect you for a long time.

The Brits had something similar with their grammar and comprehensive schools though not so much anymore

Recognizing that university is not for everyone it's good that some get to concentrate on vocational subjects but there can claims that some schools are for the gifted and some are for the slow.

Rambling post, I don't know if it's good or bad. Just that's it's different in Ireland. Would parents accept that their child can be labelled and streamed when they are young and that will affect them for a long time?

I know we have private schools but if you have money you can get into them, it doesn't tell you the ability of the student.

The left wingers in Germany hate this system for sure

Geuze · 31-08-2013 09:41PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Out of 80 million inhabintants? That's what, 4%?

An unemployment rate is never as a % of the pop, it is always as a % of the labour force.

4-5% unemployment is normal, there is always frictional unemployment.

If you lose a job on Friday, you usually don't start a new one the following Monday morning, so you will be frictionally unemployed while searching for a new job.

And so on.

Geuze · 31-08-2013 09:44PM

Drakares wrote: »

I'm currently living in Germany, and here are a few pure and utter common sense ways of running things that would be so simple to implement.

1: All medical expenses are covered by the state, as are financed by a high health insurance tax on all employed people in the country (which is also very high in Ireland). A German person must visit the Dentist at least once per year for a checkup to keep your teeth in line. If you fail to show up to the dentist and show up 10 years later with your teeth hanging out, you MUST PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.

Plus, their health service is extremely well funded. The average time from calling an ambulance to it arriving is 7 minutes. I needed one before in the country and it arrived within 3 minutes.

Note that the health ins premium is approx 15% of wages - you pay 7.5%, the employer pays 7.5%.

Pension = 20% of wages, again 10% ee, 10% er

Add in unemployment insurance and LT care insurance, and workers pay approx 20% social insurance.

[That's before income tax.]

Our PRSI rate is 4%, in contrast.

Geuze · 31-08-2013 09:45PM

Drakares wrote: »

I'm currently living in Germany, and here are a few pure and utter common sense ways of running things that would be so simple to implement.

2: Work experience and Education. A lot, if not most if German education programmes, be it a degree or a lesser education come accompanied with an 'Ausbildung' or 'Praktikum' in which a huge portion (a lot of the times, half of your time) spent working in the chosen field of study.

Companies here are massive into it, and seriously take on and train up young students soon to be entering the jobs market. For example near me, companies like ZF (Engineering) and European Aeronautics, Defense and Space Agency take on thousands of students every year to train them up on dozens of different professions from HR, to engineering, IT, Accounting and so on. A lot of the times these students end up being offered full time jobs, or at least finish their degrees knowing how real work works.

Ireland has no such program, I done 2 weeks IT work experience when I was studying in Dublin and I was sit down doing monkey work that no one else wanted to do, also was treated as an annoyance instead of someone who wanted to learn.

YES, their apprenticeship systems are well respected, and are part of the reason why youth unemployment is lower than elsewhere.

NuckingFacker · 31-08-2013 10:11PM

I worked in Germany for a year. We started "official" work at 5am and finished at 3.30pm, then we did some more work... I think that might have a weeny bit to do with it. They work a lot. They also take an awful lot of pride in their work. And clean cars, they have clean cars..and they dress really well...and they are skillful feckers... there was a lot going for the place..

31-08-2013 10:30PM

Germany went through a series of painful labour market reforms known as the Hartz reforms - starting a decade ago. once your initial benefits are used up things get tough.

corktina wrote: »

the difference is that they go out to look for business and we sit here waiting for it to come to us...take ALDI and LIDL, purpose built chains to sell German products in....how many shops does Dunnes or SuperValu have abroad selling Irish produce?

Musgraves who own Supervalu also own brands in the UK and Spain.

Drakares · 31-08-2013 11:48PM

Geuze wrote: »

YES, their apprenticeship systems are well respected, and are part of the reason why youth unemployment is lower than elsewhere.

It's just huge. My Fiance's brother is 21 and is doing a degree in software development. He works 6 months out of the year for a space agency here in Southerns Germany.. A fúcking space agency!! And he's not stuck in a postroom doing the shít work that none of the other lazy employees don't want to do

His boss recently gave him a project to regulate temperatures in an aircraft hosting humans, simply in line with his level of studies, and the boss and 2 other PhD's are molding him into a pro developer, while delegating other work to show him how everything works.

It's insane. This guy is 21 years old and they're making him into the future of the company,a huge amount of his degree marks go on what the CEO of his company says after a full report and evaluation on what has been done, how it's been performed by the student and so on.... Simply because they're a respected company and he won't say "shur he's a top lad, give him 100%" if he isn't doing well or doesn't deserve a full marked evaluation.

He absolutely loves it here, and says he will snap up a job offer from the company once the degree is finished, if they offer one.

Piliger · 01-09-2013 02:20AM

Elbaston wrote: »

How come Germany managed to turn itself and its economy around after that whole "war" hoopla and then all that whole Communist Berlin wall thing.

Now they're minted.

Meanwhile in Ireland, which has seen (relative) peace for many many decades now and has had zero USSR overlords/Stazi state police....fecked.

Can we copy them ?

Germans don't let success go to their heads. Irish people went crazy and borrowed and borrowed and borrowed and demanded more and more and more spending. Fair dues to them.

riclad · 01-09-2013 03:16AM

They have a good education system,
they Kept their manufacturing base,
they don,t send jobs oversea,s.
OUR education system ,is based on the points, system,
theres is based around ,industry, they have a good apprentice system to train students for practical jobs,industry,engineering, etc We are training doctors,nurses ,many of which go abroad
when they finish training.

eg they invest alot in solar power, green industry ,
we are 10 years behind germany.

THEY have strict limits on personal loans, mortgages
ie you cant borrow 250k, if you work
in dunnes stores ,earning 20k.

they don,t give crazy tax credits ,which encourage
people to invest in property ,
creating a bubble ,
Which ends in a collapse .

They have an effecient well run health service.

The_Valeyard · 01-09-2013 12:00PM

riclad wrote: »

They have a good education system,
they Kept their manufacturing base,
they don,t send jobs oversea,s.
OUR education system ,is based on the points, system,
theres is based around ,industry, they have a good apprentice system to train students for practical jobs,industry,engineering, etc We are training doctors,nurses ,many of which go abroad
when they finish training..

http://www.dw.de/new-report-reveals-shocking-state-of-german-education-system/a-5691043

hansfrei · 01-09-2013 12:20PM

They're getting billions of our bail out money. Handy to brag and drive big cars when your hand is in someone elses pocket.

I work a sixty hour week too BTW.

Shenshen · 01-09-2013 02:59PM

hansfrei wrote: »

They're getting billions of our bail out money. Handy to brag and drive big cars when your hand is in someone elses pocket.

I work a sixty hour week too BTW.

Would that be the same bailout money they provided for Ireland over the last few years?
Or did I mis-read things and Ireland is actually bailing out Germany?

anto9 · 01-09-2013 05:23PM

hansfrei wrote: »

They're getting billions of our bail out money. Handy to brag and drive big cars when your hand is in someone elses pocket.

I work a sixty hour week too BTW.

Most Germans work a 39 hour week .They dont live to work as many think .When they work they really do work though not just clocking in and sitting on their arses .

>>Handy to brag and drive big cars <<

Fuel costs being high ,the majority of Germans drive small cars .

Christ the Redeemer · 01-09-2013 05:25PM

a population of 81 million helps.

In what ways is Germany not fecking it up

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