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Why would anyone want to get married??

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    That's been discussed and everyone's agreed it's a good reason.

    Thanks for the bulletin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭upinthesky


    anncoates wrote: »
    Automatic guardianship of your kids is one bonus too.
    I don't know about this as you can get something signed to make the father joint guardian without getting married?

    correct me if i'm wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Personally I have no inclination whatsoever in getting married. For me its more a religious thing than anything else and as I'm not religious i see no point.

    Big fancy weddings do my head in full stop. They seem absolutely ridiculous to me and if I ever did feel the need to get married then a small intimate affair would do the job for me. (Preferably with Amy Adams) ;-)

    The ridiculous expense a lot of people have on their wedding day makes me laugh. The fact that you get threads on here about how much money is acceptable as gifts etc shows the whole thing has lost its way a bit.

    Some people seem to think that the more their wedding costs, the more it shouts their love from the rooftops. All nonsense of course as some of the biggest weddings I have been too, the couple have since split and the only people laughing now are the solicitors.

    The speeches are another thing I dislike as there is more canned laughter than in a Mrs Browns Boys marathon.

    I haven't been to a wedding in nearly 2 years now. I pray my luck continues to hold for a while longer.

    In saying all that gypsies seem to be all into them per the c4 programme.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    Could you give more detail? I don't know what angle you're coming from.

    What I mean is that some people will get married after a month of meeting. Their attitude is feck it Ill get a divorce. Hollywood style.

    That kinda marriage never meant anything in the first place and cheapens the concept of marriage.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,555 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    the concept of marriage is one mans family taking ownership of the property of another mans family (the daughter/wife). it's pretty hard to cheapen that.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,773 ✭✭✭Synyster Shadow


    Father can be a guardian but if unmarried the mother can change her mind and say you won't see the child. Iv seen so many do this. It's outright wrong but this country doesn't protect the fathers very well


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    T-K-O wrote: »
    What I mean is that some people will get married after a month of meeting. Their attitude is feck it Ill get a divorce. Hollywood style.

    That kinda marriage never meant anything in the first place and cheapens the concept of marriage.


    I think most people nowadays go into marriage knowing there's a get out clause though. I doubt it doesn't pass through most, if not everyone's, minds regardless of how long they've been together.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    I went to my bosses wedding. He spent ~ 50k. This tends to annoys people, maybe they are jealous??

    50K might seem alot of money but he could afford it. No big deal.

    I have no issues with people spending x amount on a wedding. What I find annoying is people over spending, as in life, you spend what you can afford.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    lisar816 wrote: »
    I don't know about this as you can get something signed to make the father joint guardian without getting married?

    correct me if i'm wrong.

    yes a form thats signed and dated in the presence of a notary. costs nothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    lisar816 wrote: »
    I don't know about this as you can get something signed to make the father joint guardian without getting married?

    correct me if i'm wrong.

    If you're not married, the mother is the sole legal guardian in the eyes of the law and you have to get her consent to be sane. If she disagrees, you have to to court which can be tricky if she really wants to go to any means to stop you.

    That said, AFAIK, more applications are ssuccessful than not.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    the concept of marriage is one mans family taking ownership of the property of another mans family (the daughter/wife). it's pretty hard to cheapen that.

    Yes, modern couples get married so they can take ownership of a person.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Bylar Bear wrote: »
    Oh lord. Here we go. Another selfish person looking for people to validate their beliefs and or fears on the internet. Clearly you have never loved somebody enough, nor been loved by somebody enough, to have wanted to spend the rest of your life with them.

    It is obvious as well from your other posts that you cannot think or care about the concerns for anybody except your own.

    I don't see not wanting marriage as selfish. I know who people who are in long term committed relationships with children but don't want to marry. I don't think it's selfish.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    I think most people nowadays go into marriage knowing there's a get out clause though. I doubt it doesn't pass through most, if not everyone's, minds regardless of how long they've been together.

    Of course and that's fine. I guess what I am trying to say is that some people put more weight on 'making a commitment' than others... be that any commitment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Saying people are selfish not to marry is ridiculous. It's a personal choice and it's strange to see people on either side of the argument being so summarily dismissive of the personal choice of others.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    anncoates wrote: »
    Saying people are selfish not to marry is ridiculous. It's a personal choice and it's strange to see people on either side of the argument being so summarily dismissive of the personal choice of others.

    Hammer, meet nail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    fleet wrote: »


    Your stats are not true. That article gives no stats on Ireland.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    T-K-O wrote: »
    Of course and that's fine. I guess what I am trying to say is that some people put more weight on 'making a commitment' than others... be that any commitment.


    Yeah fair enough.

    Does anyone know if you still have to be separated from a person 5 years in Ireland before you get divorced?


    I think how we view marriage in Ireland is different to places like the states where you can get drive thru divorces. Seems a bigger step in Ireland because it seems so messy to get yourself out of.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    Marriage is a commitment between two people, for life by my standards. The act is to enforce that conviction and give it legality.

    Religious ceremonies can be grand elaborate affairs with seemingly bizarre customs, and wedding function arrangers make a song and dance and pomposity out of the affair and charge big money for it.

    So the actual wedding can be skipped imo.

    For my wedding over thirty years ago, we did go before the priest as this was the easiest and cheapest option as they did the legal bit for you at no extra cost and then we went on a pub crawl, best wedding ever.

    My advice on marriage is to wed early, late marriages after twelve years and five children is all too often the final strain that breaks that relationship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    I'm not into the whole marriage thing either, that whole day out is just a load of pretentious nonsense imo. In the past there was some meaning to it, but nowadays a lot of people just use it as a money making scheme, some even demanding that you give them cash as present. It doesn't get more meaningless than that.

    At least where I live the law doesn't discriminate against the father, so I am not forced to go through this process to protect my rights. Tax is the same whether I am married or not. If anything I would be financially worse off if I get married as the children would have to go on my private health insurance due to me being the higher earner at about €180 a month per child, whereas at the moment they are free on my partners public health insurance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    anncoates wrote: »
    Saying people are selfish not to marry is ridiculous. It's a personal choice and it's strange to see people on either side of the argument being so summarily dismissive of the personal choice of others.


    It seems people are reacting to the judgement coming from both sides on this thread. Outside this thread I'm sure they don't give it a passing thought like most stuff debated in AH.


    Edit: And are we discussing the wedding or state of being married here? The debate seems confused.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭nicegirl


    I already mentioned that I think it is important, and I believe necessary that if two people really want children, and are very happy, together a long time, in love and all that, then getting married is an important thing to do, particularly with the laws in this country surrounding the fathers access rights and all that.

    I also think that if one of the spouses has cheated, is unhappy in the marriage, or bored that it may seem like the correct thing to do for the couple to stay together for the sake of the children. I do not see the sense in this, as if the couple have not safely and securely overcome the problems in the marriage then they are both miserable, and that I believe can have a detrimental effect on the children. I don't think that staying in a marriage and being miserable, but staying for the sake of the children is the right thing to do for all involved, especially the children. I can imagine that would be a difficult home to live in. If the parents split up, or got divorced, yes the children wouldn't have a mother and a father together, but they would see both of them, and at least they might be happier than being in a troubled house for many years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Pataman


    So you can get fat


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    It seems people are reacting to the judgement coming from both sides on this thread. Outside this thread I'm sure they don't give it a passing thought like most stuff debated in AH.:

    Er I meant both sides. I'm not tub thumping for or against marriage. I don't care what people do and find the more extreme views of both sides a bit strange.

    That's actually my life view, not just a point of debating rhetoric for AH.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I think it depends entirely on the individual. Some (if not most?) are better emotionally suited to the notion of marriage(and relationships in general), while others aren't. People differ, as do their ideas and practice of what love means to them. Some people are just better at relationships and especially longterm relationships than others.

    And failure of a marriage can have dire consequences, emotionally, socially and financially.

    Gender comes into this as men usually suffer more in this respect. Men going through a divorce are over twice as likely to commit suicide than married or single men. Women going through divorce show no such effect. Link. The majority of divorces(and breakups) are instigated by women. Add in the idea of "no fault" divorce and men come away as the more vulnerable gender.

    Then we get to the financial. The media is full of stories of rich men being "taken for all he's got", but you don't have to be rich. I know quite the number of ordinary guys who ended up in bedsit land while still paying a mortgage for the ex wife.

    Then there is the access to children issue, which is a whole other tale of woe for many. Oh some of the stories I could tell ye on that one.

    Now there most certainly are women who come out of relationship/marriage failure the worse off and there are also women who don't seek to take the ex for all he's got*. Indeed there are even cases where it's the woman who ends up supporting the ex husband(though rarely enough). There are even example of both here among Boardsies, but generally men simply take a bigger risk when saying "I do".

    As for ratio of good marriages to bad? In my experience anyway truly bad marriages are rare enough, however truly good marriages where both grow and are nurtured by the marriage over time are rare enough too. Again in my experience most marriages(and long term relationships) I know and have known are "meh". Neither good not bad, just coasting along. I suppose what remains of the romantic in me buried under the deep weight of the cynic :) would hate to find myself in the "meh" camp for decades.

    So for me, personality, emotional type and gender would be in the mix for whether marriage is always a good bet. And again personally, me as a man would be incredibly wary of entering into it



    *I remember reading back in the day about Chris Evans and Billie Piper's divorce and there seemed to be quite the media shock over it for two reasons; one they remained close friends and more she refused point blank to take any money from him and given he was worth squillions at the time and her career wasn't exactly banging on the doors of Hollywood it seemed even more surprising. And refreshing and laudable. My respect for both of them went right up, but especially for her. She wanted to make her own way in the world and fair play.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On the legal side of things - an example of where marriage would have been a good idea is where a couple live together in a house built by him. Have a child. Male partner (house owner) dies suddenly. Female has nothing. House left to child. Deceased partners parents saying they'll look after it for her (child), letting mother live there on their terms. Bloody awful situation, leading to a grieving young woman having to emigrate to live life her way in peace. The fact that they loved each other dearly counted for nothing in the end.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I love my boyfriend and want to spend the rest of my life with him, but don't necessarily have to marry him. I know he would like to though and it would make no odds to me really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 560 ✭✭✭nicegirl


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I think it depends entirely on the individual. Some (if not most?) are better emotionally suited to the notion of marriage(and relationships in general), while others aren't. People differ, as do their ideas and practice of what love means to them. Some people are just better at relationships and especially longterm relationships than others.

    And failure of a marriage can have dire consequences, emotionally, socially and financially.

    Gender comes into this as men usually suffer more in this respect. Men going through a divorce are over twice as likely to commit suicide than married or single men. Women going through divorce show no such effect. Link. The majority of divorces(and breakups) are instigated by women. Add in the idea of "no fault" divorce and men come away as the more vulnerable gender.

    Then we get to the financial. The media is full of stories of rich men being "taken for all he's got", but you don't have to be rich. I know quite the number of ordinary guys who ended up in bedsit land while still paying a mortgage for the ex wife.

    Then there is the access to children issue, which is a whole other tale of woe for many. Oh some of the stories I could tell ye on that one.

    Now there most certainly are women who come out of relationship/marriage failure the worse off and there are also women who don't seek to take the ex for all he's got*. Indeed there are even cases where it's the woman who ends up supporting the ex husband(though rarely enough). There are even example of both here among Boardsies, but generally men simply take a bigger risk when saying "I do".

    As for ratio of good marriages to bad? In my experience anyway truly bad marriages are rare enough, however truly good marriages where both grow and are nurtured by the marriage over time are rare enough too. Again in my experience most marriages(and long term relationships) I know and have known are "meh". Neither good not bad, just coasting along. I suppose what remains of the romantic in me buried under the deep weight of the cynic :) would hate to find myself in the "meh" camp for decades.

    So for me, personality, emotional type and gender would be in the mix for whether marriage is always a good bet. And again personally, me as a man would be incredibly wary of entering into it



    *I remember reading back in the day about Chris Evans and Billie Piper's divorce and there seemed to be quite the media shock over it for two reasons; one they remained close friends and more she refused point blank to take any money from him and given he was worth squillions at the time and her career wasn't exactly banging on the doors of Hollywood it seemed even more surprising. And refreshing and laudable. My respect for both of them went right up, but especially for her. She wanted to make her own way in the world and fair play.

    I think you stated all of that better than I have throughout this thread, thank you!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    For Legal reasons I'd be turned off it. Take USA for eg, up to half your worth:eek:. For eg Tiger Woods wife walked away with 700 million in cash plus assets such as homes cars companies etc. Now take it back a swing, she was an illegal Au Pair working for Jesper Parnevik (A Swedish Golf Pro) when she met him. She wasn't even qualified. Tiger worked all his life to achieve success at his game, their home life was terrible by all accounts, she treated him badly, he went out and got laid elsewhere and then she does that to him.


    Money must draw that type of leech.

    It's 2013 folks and the old ball and chain is still being blamed for her husband's infidelities.

    You couldn't make this shit up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    On the legal side of things - an example of where marriage would have been a good idea is where a couple live together in a house built by him. Have a child. Male partner (house owner) dies suddenly. Female has nothing. House left to child. Deceased partners parents saying they'll look after it for her (child), letting mother live there on their terms. Bloody awful situation, leading to a grieving young woman having to emigrate to live life her way in peace. The fact that they loved each other dearly counted for nothing in the end.

    I think you will find a 50 quid will would sort that issue out. Cheaper than a 20 grand wedding. :-)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    anncoates wrote: »
    Er I meant both sides. I'm not tub thumping for or against marriage. I don't care what people do and find the more extreme views of both sides a bit strange.

    That's actually my life view, not just a point of debating rhetoric for AH.


    I know you meant both sides.


    I suppose I don't want to give the impression (speaking for myself and I'm guessing a good few others posters here) that just because it's not for me that doesn't mean I'm judging those who do. I know more successful marriages than not. I think it's alright to debate these things as long as it doesn't get insulting (both sides), which it has unfortunately and I presume those are the comments you're referring to.


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