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Car showing up uninsured on ANPR

  • 29-08-2013 12:45AM
    #1
    we'llallhavetea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭


    so basically got pulled over today as my car showed up on the anpr as being uninsured. it is insured, so does anyone know how or why this happened?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,653 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    As far as i'm aware, the only way the ANPR system knows if your car is insured is when you include your policy number when taxing the car.

    As such, ANPR constantly flags cars as uninsured, when in fact they are. It can also take up to 3 days (again, I think) to reflect such information, after being submitted in the tax office.


  • #3
    Cd_doe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Cd_doe


    aya startin wha wrote: »
    so basically got pulled over today as my car showed up on the anpr as being uninsured. it is insured, so does anyone know how or why this happened?

    I'll take a guess that the insurance was renewed since it was last taxed...

    Their records are updated when you tax your car - you ever wonder what that section for your insurance details on the tax form is for?


  • #4
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,234 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    As far as i'm aware, the only way the ANPR system knows if your car is insured is when you include your policy number when taxing the car.

    As such, ANPR constantly flags cars as uninsured when they are.

    Correct. If you taxed your car in January for 12 months but your insurance expired in March then any time your car is caught by the ANPR after March it will be flagged as having no insurance as the system wouldn't have been updated. It will continue to happen until you next tax your car again and the new insurance details are updated.


  • #5
    we'llallhavetea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭we'llallhavetea


    Cd_doe wrote: »
    I'll take a guess that the insurance was renewed since it was last taxed...

    Their records are updated when you tax your car - you ever wonder what that section for your insurance details on the tax form is for?

    never even gave it a second thought, couldn't tell you what's on which form, I usually give up and ask my dad to do it!

    yeah tax is out so that's that explained! thanks for replies :)


  • #6
    we'llallhavetea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭we'llallhavetea


    although the Garda was the ultimate Cnut, he was adamant that it was coming up uninsured and that was that, I have an in date insurance disc obviously but he wasn't satisfied. he also wasn't satisfied that axa were on the phone telling him the car was insured because "he's in the motor rescue end" ?!?! anyway! car wasn't taxed so he took it. :)


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  • #7
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    aya startin wha wrote: »
    although the Garda was the ultimate Cnut, he was adamant that it was coming up uninsured and that was that, I have an in date insurance disc obviously but he wasn't satisfied. he also wasn't satisfied that axa were on the phone telling him the car was insured because "he's in the motor rescue end" ?!?! anyway! car wasn't taxed so he took it. :)
    You'll be able to prove you were insured to drive it with the cert.


  • #8
    racso1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    hmmm so i am guessing that just throwing in random numbers and companies when doing it on line is not a good idea


  • #9
    aisr1ofk43dpy5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭aisr1ofk43dpy5


    aya startin wha wrote: »
    although the Garda was the ultimate Cnut, he was adamant that it was coming up uninsured and that was that, I have an in date insurance disc obviously but he wasn't satisfied. he also wasn't satisfied that axa were on the phone telling him the car was insured because "he's in the motor rescue end" ?!?! anyway! car wasn't taxed so he took it. :)

    How long was the tax out of date


  • #10
    numorouno
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭numorouno


    Max Proud Witchcraft wrote: »
    How long was the tax out of date

    Maybe that's just the reason he took it?


  • #11
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    numorouno wrote: »
    Maybe that's just the reason he took it?
    Isn't that what the OP said?


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  • #12
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,799 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    numorouno wrote: »
    Maybe that's just the reason he took it?

    Sounds more to me (taking the story at face value) that the Garda in question was pissed off that he was proven wrong by the OP and his insurer and so took the car out of spite/show what a "big man" he is :rolleyes: Another example of the keystone cops brigade we call a police force.

    Otherwise why not just do the OP for no tax and seize the car in the first place? Why the whole drama/calls to AXA to prove he was insured?


  • #13
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Sounds more to me (taking the story at face value) that the Garda in question was pissed off that he was proven wrong by the OP and his insurer and so took the car out of spite/show what a "big man" he is :rolleyes: Another example of the keystone cops brigade we call a police force.
    Or maybe he was just doing his job?
    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Otherwise why not just do the OP for no tax and seize the car in the first place? Why the whole drama/calls to AXA to prove he was insured?
    Because driving uninsured is a separate, and more serious, offence?


  • #14
    djimi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,234 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Anan1 wrote: »
    You'll be able to prove you were insured to drive it with the cert.

    Not really; the cert wont show if you have had your policy cancelled.

    Using the online tax renewal details to update ANPR is rather ridiculous considering anyone can stick any details they want into that form.


  • #15
    we'llallhavetea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭we'llallhavetea


    car tax was out five months.

    he took the insurance disc and the sheet that it was originally attached to. that's weird because.. I need that!
    I didn't even get his name or where he is stationed :(
    I'll just get axa to print it all of again for me.

    he was just "doing his job" but he was a woeful Cnut about it, even the guards I have been talking to since have said no way would they have taken the car off me and left me and my daughter crying and alone with bags of crap from the car on the side of the road in blanch. my child was fairly traumatised the poor thing :(


  • #16
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    aya startin wha wrote: »
    car tax was out five months.

    he took the insurance disc and the sheet that it was originally attached to. that's weird because.. I need that!
    I didn't even get his name or where he is stationed :(
    I'll just get axa to print it all of again for me.

    he was just "doing his job" but he was a woeful Cnut about it, even the guards I have been talking to since have said no way would they have taken the car off me and left me and my daughter crying and alone with bags of crap from the car on the side of the road in blanch. my child was fairly traumatised the poor thing :(
    Your tax was out 5 months and you're calling the Garda names for taking your car? You put your child on the side of the road, not him.


  • #17
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    aya startin wha wrote: »
    no way would they have taken the car off me and left me and my daughter crying and alone with bags of crap from the car on the side of the road in blanch. my child was fairly traumatised the poor thing :(

    See this is the problem right there. The same crap went on in the long VRT thread with the poor put upon people of inishowen that were expected to comply with the same laws as everyone else. "ah sure its a parent with a child, you cant be stopping them breaking the law, leave them be"

    I'm sure it was "the only one time in 5 months I took the car out" / "no choice, someone was dying , first time it happened" etc


  • #18
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Or maybe he was just doing his job?

    Because driving uninsured is a separate, and more serious, offence?


    Really? Was this some supercop who was going to wrap the whole case up in one day? The OP has ten days to produce the cert. I don't understand why the insurance was phoned in the first place.

    The guard did his job and seized the car. I don't doubt that he was a cnut about it though.
    aya startin wha wrote: »
    car tax was out five months.

    he took the insurance disc and the sheet that it was originally attached to. that's weird because.. I need that!
    I didn't even get his name or where he is stationed :(
    I'll just get axa to print it all of again for me.

    he was just "doing his job" but he was a woeful Cnut about it, even the guards I have been talking to since have said no way would they have taken the car off me and left me and my daughter crying and alone with bags of crap from the car on the side of the road in blanch. my child was fairly traumatised the poor thing :(

    So you had the cert on you as well?? I wouldn't get it from axa again. There may be a charge for reissuing the cert. I would get on to the guards and request that it is returned. It won't be hard to find.

    However you really have no one to blame for your car being seized but yourself. This is not a judgement on you in any way. You took the risk and got caught. They can seize the car once the tax is out over two months so you have got away with it for three months. It was bound to happen sooner or later.


  • #19
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    What was the plan, head down to the station after 6 months and declare that it had been off the road, then tax it for 3 months?

    Or were you just never going to tax it at all?


  • #20
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    Really? Was this some supercop who was going to wrap the whole case up in one day? The OP has ten days to produce the cert. I don't understand why the insurance was phoned in the first place.
    Who rang the insurance?
    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    The guard did his job and seized the car. I don't doubt that he was a cnut about it though.
    Why do you think that?


  • #21
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    Really? Was this some supercop who was going to wrap the whole case up in one day? The OP has ten days to produce the cert. I don't understand why the insurance was phoned in the first place.
    .

    He is given 10 days if all is in order. Do you really think if the Gard thinks hes driving uninsured he should send him on his way to continue doing so for another 10 days?

    What happens if he hit you and your left chasing the cost of your claim with MIBI for a few years and found out a Gard stopped him a couple of days before, thought he was uninsured and sent him on his way? You'd be grand with that, yeah?


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  • #22
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,799 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    He is given 10 days if all is in order. Do you really think if the Gard thinks hes driving uninsured he should send him on his way to continue doing so for another 10 days?

    Why not? Sure you can fail your driving test and still drive yourself home :rolleyes: (I'm not disagreeing with you - just pointing out the ridiculousness of the system we have in general)

    Really the problem here is (again) the "it depends who you get" attitude. Because of the hugely varying way Gardai (and indeed most public/cicil servants) approach their job and the informal "ah shure it'll be grand" approach that it breeds, the OP could very well have met another Garda who would have sent them off with a warning to get it taxed within 10 days and produce. The opinions from other Gardai the OP says they've since talked to supports this.

    But as the OP describes it, the Garda's attitude was such that having been proven wrong about the insurance being out, they instead decided to "follow the law" and seized the car out of spite.. otherwise that would have been the approach from the start - the possibility of no insurance would just have been added to the case after the fact.

    [slightly O/T ramble starts here]

    It boils down to this "Garda discretion" - while I'm not saying they shouldn't use a bit of cop-on, when and to what degree this applies seems to be completely random, and THAT is where the issues lie because the motorist has no idea where they stand really.

    Yes I know the simple answer to that will be "well make sure you're always within the law then" but that becomes a bit harder to stomach when you see reports of "celebrities", sports stars and what not being "let off" - as evidenced by the penalty points revelations not so long ago - and stories of Garda corruption (such as money that's going missing from evidence lockups in stations these days)

    More fundamentally, when you transfer this problem to wider Ireland I think what we end up with is a broken and basically flawed "system" where the rules change on a day to day basis and are made up as we go along (just look at all the post-election U-turns by the present government for example)


  • #23
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    Anan1 wrote: »
    Who rang the insurance?

    Why do you think that?

    Because I believe the OP. There are ways of doing things. Why do you believe that there couldn't be one a**eh0le in an organisation of 12,000 employees that is An Garda Siochana. I will add the vast majority for guards I have met or dealt with over the years have been grand. However I have also met the odd cnut. It would be impossible for them not to exist.
    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    He is given 10 days if all is in order. Do you really think if the Gard thinks hes driving uninsured he should send him on his way to continue doing so for another 10 days?

    What happens if he hit you and your left chasing the cost of your claim with MIBI for a few years and found out a Gard stopped him a couple of days before, thought he was uninsured and sent him on his way? You'd be grand with that, yeah?

    The car wasn't going anywhere. It was five months out of tax. Although the OP has since talked to guards who said they wouldn't have seized the car that is a very easy thing to say in hindsight.

    The car was going to be seized, end of.


  • #24
    Caliden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,981 ✭✭✭Caliden


    No tax, no sympathy.

    Might seem like a harsh statement but if you want to drive on the roads you need nct, tax & insurance. You can't pick and choose what you want to pay for.

    You are the one who took the chance of driving with no tax (1 month I can understand but 5??) and ultimately you and your child paid the price.

    If you're looking for sympathy because someone did their job, you won't get it here.

    I would hope that this experience has discouraged you from doing it again but who knows...


  • #25
    Wheres My ForkandKnife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 180 ✭✭Wheres My ForkandKnife


    Caliden wrote: »
    No tax, no sympathy.

    Might seem like a harsh statement but if you want to drive on the roads you need nct, tax & insurance. You can't pick and choose what you want to pay for.

    You are the one who took the chance of driving with no tax (1 month I can understand but 5??) and ultimately you and your child paid the price.

    If you're looking for sympathy because someone did their job, you won't get it here.

    I would hope that this experience has discouraged you from doing it again but who knows...

    From my reading of the thread the OP was't looking for sympathy (and nor should they expect any) The post was about the issue of the car being insured. I don't think the OP was crying about the car being seized, more about how they were treated by the guard, or that is my reading of it anyway.

    Personally, I don't care who taxes their car, it is none of my business. My car is always taxed so that when I drive around a corner and see the flashing blue lights I don't have a sh1te haemorrhage and be in the same position as the OP ending up on the side of the road with my family. If the OP thought they would talk their way through a checkpoint with no tax for five months they are a little deluded

    Insurance is a different matter but there is no suggestion the th OP wasn't insured.


  • #26
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    Because I believe the OP. There are ways of doing things. Why do you believe that there couldn't be one a**eh0le in an organisation of 12,000 employees that is An Garda Siochana. I will add the vast majority for guards I have met or dealt with over the years have been grand. However I have also met the odd cnut. It would be impossible for them not to exist.
    You believe what, exactly? The OP didn't say who rang the insurance company, and the OP is clearly more inclined to blame the Garda than themselves. We don't know enough to be calling that Garda a cnut.


  • #27
    Caliden
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,981 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Wheres My ForkandKnife wrote: »
    From my reading of the thread the OP was't looking for sympathy (and nor should they expect any) The post was about the issue of the car being insured. I don't think the OP was crying about the car being seized, more about how they were treated by the guard, or that is my reading of it anyway.

    Personally, I don't care who taxes their car, it is none of my business. My car is always taxed so that when I drive around a corner and see the flashing blue lights I don't have a sh1te haemorrhage and be in the same position as the OP ending up on the side of the road with my family. If the OP thought they would talk their way through a checkpoint with no tax for five months they are a little deluded

    Insurance is a different matter but there is no suggestion the th OP wasn't insured.


    Maybe not in their first post but certainly in this one:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86260976#post86260976

    Exempt from paying road tax because of a child?

    It's hard to know how both the OP and the Garda behaved in this situation as we're hearing just one side of the story (and in this case it's someone who just had their car seized)


  • #28
    cadaliac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,904 ✭✭✭cadaliac


    Anan1 wrote: »
    You believe what, exactly? The OP didn't say who rang the insurance company, and the OP is clearly more inclined to blame the Garda than themselves. We don't know enough to be calling that Garda a cnut.
    Why does it matter to you who called the insurance?


  • #29
    Anan1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,770 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    cadaliac wrote: »
    Why does it matter to you who called the insurance?
    To me? This is why it matters:
    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Sounds more to me (taking the story at face value) that the Garda in question was pissed off that he was proven wrong by the OP and his insurer and so took the car out of spite/show what a "big man" he is :rolleyes: Another example of the keystone cops brigade we call a police force.

    Otherwise why not just do the OP for no tax and seize the car in the first place? Why the whole drama/calls to AXA to prove he was insured?


  • #30
    Max Power1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭Max Power1


    Caliden wrote: »
    Maybe not in their first post but certainly in this one:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86260976#post86260976

    Exempt from paying road tax because of a child?

    It's hard to know how both the OP and the Garda behaved in this situation as we're hearing just one side of the story (and in this case it's someone who just had their car seized)

    Dont know about you, but I pay my motor tax (a not unsubstantial 1500 p/a) and I am glad that others who do not do the same have sanctions placed against them to the full extent of the applicable law.

    Also, the children? If you (op) taxed & insured the car this would not have happened. So this is your fault, not the Gardai's.


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  • #31
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 18,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    djimi wrote: »
    Not really; the cert wont show if you have had your policy cancelled.

    How else could anyone prove they had cover?


This discussion has been closed.
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