Feminism, misogyny, and accusations of misogyny

Foxhound38 · 27-08-2013 12:46PM #1

It seems this Miley Cyrus saga has thrown up a few questions...

A friend of mine essentially accused her in social media of making a tit of herself at that awards show during the week (google it if you're unfamiliar with it) and acting inappropriately given that there was children in the audience and at home watching. Having then looked at the performance, I found myself largely agreeing with him - it was totally wide of the mark and inappropriate.

I checked back on his post a few hours later - and quite a few left-wing feminist activists that he knew were up in absolute arms about what he said. They accused him of "slut-shaming" and misogyny. He explained that he felt that was nonsense because he would also be the first person to call a lad who undergone such shenanigans in front of kids a gob****e and a tit, and pointed out that had he done so the feminist brigade would be nowhere to be found accusing him of misandry.

Now I know this lad isn't sexist - in fact he spent much of his time in college marching and campaigning for various womens rights issues (which is how he knows these feminists). I also have no reason to doubt that he would call any man who performed like that in front of kids (rightly) a tit and a gob****e, which is all he said about Miley Cyrus either.

I was uncomfortable reading the feminists take on this and reaction to be honest. It seemed to me that they were not reading what he was saying, just throwing the sexism card at him because he dared criticize a woman. That would be fine, but these same feminists also make many a blanket criticism of men in their discourse. So what's the story here? Is it a case of "all men are b*stards but all women need defending"? That's the most asinine (and sexist) bull I've ever heard in my life...

The reason I bring this up is because it seems to be a fairly common stance amongst radical feminists. What's the story here?

For Forks Sake · 27-08-2013 12:50PM

Yes.
No.
Maybe.
Atari Jaguar.

That's everything covered you misogynist pig. Now for important questions of the day; daddy or chips?

1ZRed · 27-08-2013 12:50PM

Why are you asking me? I was too busy looking at the Smith's reaction to it

http://newsbite.it/public/images/articles/will-smith-family-vmas-1.jpg

Will looks a bit intrigued

Sunglasses Ron · 27-08-2013 12:53PM

It actually is not all that shocking, is it? The performance I mean, I've seen a lot more boundary pushing.

Cyrus seems to have about three brain cells of which two are on the blink. A few weeks back I read something about her and her fiance getting relationship counselling.

What is she, 19 or so? Relationship counselling? Marriage? Jesus ****ing wept.

hatrickpatrick · 27-08-2013 12:58PM

I haven't seen any slut shaming of Miley Cyrus or criticising the performance in a sexual manner, it's all simply been "Wow, that was a bizarre, not entertaining and badly written act". I didn't find it crap because of the "shock" or anything, just that it was incomprehensible and badly acted.

Of course, there are those radicals who believe any criticism of a member of <insert sub-group here> amounts to general hatred of <insert sub-group here>; those people are muppets and can be safely ignored.

old hippy · 27-08-2013 01:00PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

It actually is not all that shocking, is it? The performance I mean, I've seen a lot more boundary pushing.

Cyrus seems to have about three brain cells of which two are on the blink. A few weeks back I read something about her and her fiance getting relationship counselling.

What is she, 19 or so? Relationship counselling? Marriage? Jesus ****ing wept.

I think everyone should be able to avail of such services, no matter what age. Just because she's young, doesn't make any of her difficulties any less real, for her at any rate.

kneemos · 27-08-2013 01:00PM

Don't they all take their clothes off sooner or later?

My name is URL · 27-08-2013 01:01PM

She made more of an ass than a tit of herself.. a soggy, horrible ass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UUD3zyu7Ek

Femme_Fatale · 27-08-2013 01:02PM

She's just continuing the attention-seeking tradition of the former child-star or former squeaky-clean starlet ensuring to let everyone know that they're not so innocent anymore!!! (See: Spears, Aguilera, Perry, Lohan). Nothing "slut-shaming" about noting that.

Sunglasses Ron · 27-08-2013 01:02PM

old hippy wrote: »

I think everyone should be able to avail of such services, no matter what age. Just because she's young, doesn't make any of her difficulties any less real, for her at any rate.

This is not 50 years ago when people had less opportunities to live a more interesting life. All of the very few people I have known to consider marriage this early have been goons of the highest order.

Karl Stein · 27-08-2013 01:03PM

Why am I reading this?

old hippy · 27-08-2013 01:04PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

This is not 50 years ago when people had less opportunities to live a more interesting life. All of the very few people I have known to consider marriage this early have been goons of the highest order.

You need to move in different circles, in that case.

Maybe they really want to get married?

joseph brand · 27-08-2013 01:05PM

There's no such thing as bad publicity. Is anyone really surprised any more?

Miley is keeping her face all over the media and the money will roll in.

o1s1n · 27-08-2013 01:06PM

old hippy wrote: »

You need to move in different circles, in that case.

Maybe they really want to get married?

You really need to change your name to devil's advocate, seriously :pac:

Regarding the OP, any woman who calls that slut shaming is an absolute moron and should be ignored.

I really want to support feminist ideologies, but the modern iteration I see spewing this kind of drivel all over the internet does them far more harm than good.

Sunglasses Ron · 27-08-2013 01:07PM

old hippy wrote: »

You need to move in different circles, in that case.

Maybe they really want to get married?

How should I phrase this. Most people who think getting married in ones late teens is a good idea tend not to be the sharpest tools in the drawer.

The chances of a regular couplen staying together after marrying at this age would be slim.

The chances of a celebrity couple, non existent. It takes a certain type of stupid to think this is a good move. I seem to recall Bob Geldof's daughter of about the same age saying she wasn't sure her marriage would even last, BEFORE she got married and swiftly divorced.

runawaybishop · 27-08-2013 01:08PM

1ZRed wrote: »

Why are you asking me? I was too busy looking at the Smith's reaction to it

http://newsbite.it/public/images/articles/will-smith-family-vmas-1.jpg

Will looks a bit intrigued

Why does his son always look so worried, did he get botox?

Foxhound38 · 27-08-2013 01:12PM

Yeah, I'm actually sympathetic to the feminist cause myself, but this sort of extremist bull is mental and doing them more harm than good.

He has been "invited" to take himself off and take a "Gender Studies" class several times in the thread. What exaclty goes on in these classes? Do you come out of them thinking all men are bastards and utterly unable to criticize any woman for any reason?

hatrickpatrick · 27-08-2013 01:13PM

o1s1n wrote: »

You really need to change your name to devil's advocate, seriously :pac:

Regarding the OP, any woman who calls that slut shaming is an absolute moron and should be ignored.

I really want to support feminist ideologies, but the modern iteration I see spewing this kind of drivel all over the internet does them far more harm than good.

Little known backstory: There's an extremely influential community of extremely radical and crackpot "social justice"* warriors on the discussion website Reddit known as SRS (Sh!tRedditSays), and they are largely responsible for the recent moving of these radical ideas into the mainstream.

Their entire belief system can effectively be summed up as follows: "I have a human right never to have my feelings hurt by anything, and this trumps everyone else's right to freedom of speech". In other words, anything they find in any way offensive, they will launch an incredibly vitriolic and relentless campaign of smears and harassment until either their target shuts up or is forced to from abandonment of advertising sponsorship and so on.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Check them out on Reddit and you'll see very quickly that they can't last; sooner or later they always alienate their own members and will probably go into a major decline shortly enough.

*Social justice in this case is in fact a radical "social commie" ideal in which instead of trying to bring everyone up to the highest level, they want to bring everyone down to the lowest, and that's their concept of equality. So for instance it doesn't involve making women more free, but stripping rights away from men and women until both are equally miserable.

hatrickpatrick · 27-08-2013 01:19PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm actually sympathetic to the feminist cause myself, but this sort of extremist bull is mental and doing them more harm than good.

He has been "invited" to take himself off and take a "Gender Studies" class several times in the thread. What exaclty goes on in these classes? Do you come out of them thinking all men are bastards and utterly unable to criticize any woman for any reason?

Friend of mine did one of these in the States out of sheer boredom and curiosity, she left in disgust after two classes when the professor was talking about how women should have guys "whipped" by using their sexuality as a bargaining counter in relationships :rolleyes:

And this is exactly what I mean, they manage to piss off women even more than they piss off men so that they're left with only the most radical crazies, and then they ban anyone who is not there to "circlejerk" (essentially, anyone who ever raises disagreements or checks/balances on what's being proposed), with the end result that the radicals get more radicalised and any moderates are kicked out.

Of course, this is one girl's experience, I'm sure there are gender studies courses which are genuinely well meaning and sincere, but as we all know, it only takes a tiny number of radical eejits to cause a sh!tstorm of epic proportions.

I Heart Internet · 27-08-2013 01:23PM

I wasn't shocked by Miley's performance (who is these days, a glance at the Daily Mail website will show you what she regularly gets up to) just bemused.

I think she was playing for the TV and other media rather than actually, genuinely trying to entertain the people who were actually stood there watching her.

I was bemused to see her behaving so provocatively in front of an audience of mainly teenage girls with camera phones. They were there to be entertained and to see someone famous (anyone will do) and she gives them a strip show.

It just seemed weird.

That said, I think Miley is HOT. I'm delighted to see her in as few clothes as she wants. Just think she probably needs to think through how she approaches her performances/audiences better........or not and keep getting MASSIVE media exposure - her choice.

Links234 · 27-08-2013 01:23PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Little known backstory: There's an extremely influential community of extremely radical and crackpot "social justice"* warriors on the discussion website Reddit known as SRS (Sh!tRedditSays), and they are largely responsible for the recent moving of these radical ideas into the mainstream.

I think you're giving too much credit to a bunch of gasbags who like to abuse people under the guise of "social justice"

now check your privilege, sh*tlord!

hatrickpatrick · 27-08-2013 01:29PM

Links234 wrote: »

I think you're giving too much credit to a bunch of gasbags who like to abuse people under the guise of "social justice"

now check your privilege, sh*tlord!

Well the sad thing is, they have actually managed to mount several successful campaigns to stifle reasonable discussion, a recent example being Dr. Phil's attempt to open a discussion about drunk sex, he was immediately flooded with angry SRSters accusing him of being a "Rape enabler" to the point where he deleted the tweet to spare himself the onslaught of vitriol he was receiving.

Now of course, there are those who believe that all drunk sex is automatically rape and those who don't, the point is, what justification is there for saying we can't even have a discussion about it without harassment and threats towards he or she who simply raises it as a topic of conversation?

One does not simply achieve anything by silencing critics instead of engaging in active debate with them.

My name is URL · 27-08-2013 01:37PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Little known backstory: There's an extremely influential community of extremely radical and crackpot "social justice"* warriors on the discussion website Reddit known as SRS (Sh!tRedditSays), and they are largely responsible for the recent moving of these radical ideas into the mainstream.

To be fair, it's a two way street on Reddit.. and it leads to headaches in both directions.

There's dozens of factions (for want of a better word), warring pointlessly over gender issues. r/mensrights is less about actual men's rights and more about attacking anything purportedly 'feminist'.

hatrickpatrick · 27-08-2013 01:39PM

My name is URL wrote: »

To be fair, it's a two way street on Reddit.. and it leads to headaches in both directions.

There's dozens of factions (for want of a better word), warring pointlessly over gender issues. r/mensrights is less about actual men's rights and more about attacking anything purportedly 'feminist'.

I'm a complete noob to the entire reddit experience, I was linked directly to SRS from 4chan so as you can imagine, so far I've probably seen only one side of a particularly piss-soaked coin

newport2 · 27-08-2013 01:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well the sad thing is, they have actually managed to mount several successful campaigns to stifle reasonable discussion, a recent example being Dr. Phil's attempt to open a discussion about drunk sex, he was immediately flooded with angry SRSters accusing him of being a "Rape enabler" to the point where he deleted the tweet to spare himself the onslaught of vitriol he was receiving.

Now of course, there are those who believe that all drunk sex is automatically rape and those who don't, the point is, what justification is there for saying we can't even have a discussion about it without harassment and threats towards he or she who simply raises it as a topic of conversation?

One does not simply achieve anything by silencing critics instead of engaging in active debate with them.

Unfortunately, this has been a very successful tactic of a lot of interest groups in recent years. By silencing their debate, the impression that they are right - without question - is created and their opinions often end up being treated as facts.

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” - voltaire

Links234 · 27-08-2013 01:42PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

One does not simply achieve anything by silencing critics instead of engaging in active debate with them.

You've got it wrong though, you assume they're trying to achieve anything. Most of those "social justice" types are really just using that as a front to act badly and insult people

Muise... · 27-08-2013 01:51PM

am I the only one who finds the whole thing hilarious? It wasn't your typical po-faced ho routine - Smiley gave a cheeky Betty Boop-style turn, the like of which I haven't seen since the neighbour's cat was in heat. Then the internet goes all righteous spazz with the slut-shaming and moral shriekery.

Well played Cyrus, epic trolling!

27-08-2013 02:00PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

She's just continuing the attention-seeking tradition of the former child-star or former squeaky-clean starlet ensuring to let everyone know that they're not so innocent anymore!!! (See: Spears, Aguilera, Perry, Lohan). Nothing "slut-shaming" about noting that.

The five ages of female stars...

Cute baby grows into amusingly precocious child -
Innocent teen struggling with identity and coming to terms with adulthood -
Shagadelic 20 -something sex kitten finds her inner vixen -
Meets Mr. Right and becomes soccer mom -
Driving Miss Daisy

Jonny Blaze · 27-08-2013 02:07PM

The onion called this back in 2008..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOgj2etJs3Y&feature=player_embedded

Weirdly accurate.

SeventySix · 27-08-2013 02:13PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

It seems this Miley Cyrus saga has thrown up a few questions...

A friend of mine essentially accused her in social media of making a tit of herself at that awards show during the week (google it if you're unfamiliar with it) and acting inappropriately given that there was children in the audience and at home watching. Having then looked at the performance, I found myself largely agreeing with him - it was totally wide of the mark and inappropriate.

I checked back on his post a few hours later - and quite a few left-wing feminist activists that he knew were up in absolute arms about what he said. They accused him of "slut-shaming" and misogyny. He explained that he felt that was nonsense because he would also be the first person to call a lad who undergone such shenanigans in front of kids a gob****e and a tit, and pointed out that had he done so the feminist brigade would be nowhere to be found accusing him of misandry.

Now I know this lad isn't sexist - in fact he spent much of his time in college marching and campaigning for various womens rights issues (which is how he knows these feminists). I also have no reason to doubt that he would call any man who performed like that in front of kids (rightly) a tit and a gob****e, which is all he said about Miley Cyrus either.

I was uncomfortable reading the feminists take on this and reaction to be honest. It seemed to me that they were not reading what he was saying, just throwing the sexism card at him because he dared criticize a woman. That would be fine, but these same feminists also make many a blanket criticism of men in their discourse. So what's the story here? Is it a case of "all men are b*stards but all women need defending"? That's the most asinine (and sexist) bull I've ever heard in my life...

The reason I bring this up is because it seems to be a fairly common stance amongst radical feminists. What's the story here?

Did he call out Robin Thicke 'a tit and a gob****e' for being involved in the whole thing? He is a man and he was also participiating in the 'inappropriate' behaviour in front of kids?

Jonny Blaze · 27-08-2013 02:15PM

SeventySix wrote: »

Did he call out Robin Thicke 'a tit and a gob****e' for being involved in the whole thing? He is a man and he was also participiating in the 'inappropriate' behaviour in front of kids?

Albeit a fully clothed man..

Feminism, misogyny, and accusations of misogyny

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