Asked to teach a subject not qualified in

cb7 · 22-08-2013 11:32AM #1

I have been asked to teach Physics this year and I don't have a clue of it. I did it for Junior cert science. I never did it at all in college. I am a Science teacher and Biology is my main area. I have expressed my concern to the principal but can I be made teach this subject?

Crazyteacher · 22-08-2013 11:39AM

It's not ideal but you need it to keep your job I suppose . Have you had a look at the curriculum ? Get yourself a text book to see if you could manage it .

Michael D Not Higgins · 22-08-2013 11:40AM

Is it at LC level? If you never studied the course it might be tricky to impart any knowledge to the students.

Seanchai · 22-08-2013 11:43AM

A centralised recruitment system - like An Garda Síochána - would reduce problems like this hugely by matching your qualified subjects up with a school which needs those subjects. Until that happens students across Ireland will continue to be taught by people unqualified for it. Clearly, the state doesn't car too much about this.

My advice as somebody who has been put in your situation: do it. The first day is the worst. You quickly realise you know far more than the students and this helps your confidence. You also know you need to know more so, at worst, you end up studying more to be one page ahead of the kids. You'll be grand.

cb7 · 22-08-2013 11:47AM

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

Michael D Not Higgins · 22-08-2013 11:49AM

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

How are you with Physics and general maths. There can be a lot of equations in the course. I haven't seen the course since I did it over 10 years ago but there's also some more abstract stuff like nuclear physics too.

Seanchai · 22-08-2013 11:50AM

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

Never freak out. You are king, and your classroom is your castle.

cb7 · 22-08-2013 11:52AM

Good thinking - Seanchai

km79 · 22-08-2013 11:54AM

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

I have the same subjects as you . In my first 2 years I taught .......Maths to LC ordinary level , Chemistry to LC higher Level, physics to 4th years and .......Geography up to 4th year higher level including a Junior Cert class ! As well as other bits and pieces like computers , PE etc.
It's tough. You will have to put in a lot of long evenings. You MUST be fully prepared and keep a week or so ahead of class. My advice would be to do out notes on power point and /or acetates so you will have them for again. And make changes to any when necessary.
It's a good way to learn a course and ou may surprise yourself .

It's just one of those things. Although I thought the annual reg fee to the teaching council was supposed to regulate this kind of thing

Dave0301 · 22-08-2013 11:57AM

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

This is a great resource.

Has handouts for notes, questions, exam papers, how to revise physics and loads of Youtube videos. It is all split up into the relevant sections as well.

I am a physics teacher, so any questions, ask away.

cb7 · 22-08-2013 12:05PM

Cool. Thanks for that - it looks very good. Think I am most worried about the practical experiments. Any good sites like that for Chemistry?

Dave0301 · 22-08-2013 12:11PM

cb7 wrote: »

Cool. Thanks for that - it looks very good. Think I am most worried about the practical experiments. Any good sites like that for Chemistry?

This here should help with some of the practical aspect, there is also a practical chemistry section as well. I am not as familiar with chemistry resources sorry, although have a look at TES.

darragh o meara · 22-08-2013 12:18PM

A bit of advice I got a while back from one of my lecturers is to keep yourself 10 slides ahead of the class.

Donatas2 · 22-08-2013 12:20PM

I know it's not like great way of teaching students but a teacher who must of been first year started teaching us physics last year. She didn't have much experience and the way she done it, read the text book and not even showed every experiment in the classroom, it was youtube videos she used. I know it's awful way to teach and i didn't learn anything but that could be the worst case scenario.

doc_17 · 22-08-2013 01:16PM

Are you permanent there? If so try sticking to your guns. If not then jump into it and just prepare like crazy

jimbo28 · 22-08-2013 01:47PM

Ask yourself, Could you get an A in the subject if you sat the exam? I find the general attitude in this thread quite alarming, if you dont know the subject, you should not be teaching it.Would you like to be taught your leaving cert course by somebody who didn't really know the subject? especially when you may be looking for a high grade. I hate to quote Maud Flanders but "Won't somebody think of the children". I'm not saying that your not able for it op but you obviously have alot of self doubt.Maybe its best not to take it on.On the points being made as to whether you are full time or not,this should not come into it.If management tell you that you have to take it, you can always tell them that you wont.If that is the case, you have to decide what decision you will make, you either let the kids down and keep your job, or do the right thing and tell management that you are not comfortable with the class and let the chips fall where they may! Best of luck with it.

Very good point about the teaching council,where is the regulation?

doc_17 · 22-08-2013 01:56PM

jimbo28 wrote: »

Ask yourself, Could you get an A in the subject if you sat the exam? I find the general attitude in this thread quite alarming, if you dont know the subject, you should not be teaching it.Would you like to be taught your leaving cert course by somebody who didn't really know the subject? especially when you may be looking for a high grade. I hate to quote Maud Flanders but "Won't somebody think of the children". I'm not saying that your not able for it op but you obviously have alot of self doubt.Maybe its best not to take it on.On the points being made as to whether you are full time or not,this should not come into it.If management tell you that you have to take it, you can always tell them that you wont.If that is the case, you have to decide what decision you will make, you either let the kids down and keep your job, or do the right thing and tell management that you are not comfortable with the class and let the chips fall where they may! Best of luck with it.

Very good point about the teaching council,where is the regulation?

You expect them to possibly sacrifice their job because management are being unfair to them? I think that's being a bit unfair.

Michael D Not Higgins · 22-08-2013 02:01PM

The school is just using the resources it has to hand. They see science and biology teacher? Easy shuffle across to physics!

Dilly. · 22-08-2013 02:05PM

doc_17 wrote: »

You expect them to possibly sacrifice their job because management are being unfair to them? I think that's being a bit unfair.

What about the students? Is it not unfair to them to have a teacher who may have less of an understanding of the subject than they do?

jimbo28 · 22-08-2013 02:15PM

doc_17 wrote: »

You expect them to possibly sacrifice their job because management are being unfair to them? I think that's being a bit unfair.

Would you expect your kids to be taught by a competent subject teacher? Young teachers are being pressured all of the time by management, this does not mean that they have to roll over and do what they are told.Do I expect him to give up his job? I expect him to have the nodes to do whats right by the kids, not by management.Not being a smart ass but its in our job description.I most certainly would not teach a subject to leving cert unless i was quite competent to do so.I think that what you are going to allude to doc17 is to say that its the systems/schools fault that this situation has arisen and that the op cannot do anything about it! The fact is he can do something about it if he wants! Its a difficult leaving cert subject subject not first year cspe.

doc_17 · 22-08-2013 02:16PM

Dilly. wrote: »

What about the students? Is it not unfair to them to have a teacher who may have less of an understanding of the subject than they do?

It is unfair of course. Who said it wasn't? But the first victim here is the teacher. There are no winners.

Miss Lockhart · 22-08-2013 02:18PM

I wonder what the Social Welfare stance would be on losing a job because you refused to teach what your employer told you to.

doc_17 · 22-08-2013 02:26PM

jimbo28 wrote: »

Would you expect your kids to be taught by a competent subject teacher? Young teachers are being pressured all of the time by management, this does not mean that they have to roll over and do what they are told.Do I expect him to give up his job? I expect him to have the nodes to do whats right by the kids, not by management.Not being a smart ass but its in our job description.I most certainly would not teach a subject to leving cert unless i was quite competent to do so.I think that what you are going to allude to doc17 is to say that its the systems/schools fault that this situation has arisen and that the op cannot do anything about it! The fact is he can do something about it if he wants! Its a difficult leaving cert subject subject not first year cspe.

See, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't think the teacher should haver to give up their employment. They have done nothing wrong. And this high moral ground that you allude to? Well, that should be put to the person putting this teacher in that difficult position.

Seanchai · 22-08-2013 02:27PM

jimbo28 wrote: »

I find the general attitude in this thread quite alarming, if you dont know the subject, you should not be teaching it.Would you like to be taught your leaving cert course by somebody who didn't really know the subject? especially when you may be looking for a high grade.

The solution to this rests with the state, as the paymaster, creating a centralised recruitment system for all schools in Ireland. That way it is far more likely that a teacher's qualifications will be matched up to the needs of a particular school. Until it does so, schools will have little choice but to ask an existing member of staff to take classes in a subject for which they cannot get an outsider (as, for example, there may be only 4 hours available). If you were a principal in these circumstances, what would you do?

Until Ruairí Quinn changes the recruitment system, students are going to continue to be taught by unqualified teachers.

jimbo28 · 22-08-2013 02:27PM

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I wonder what the Social Welfare stance would be on losing a job because you refused to teach what your employer told you to.

What a statement

...........not doing something because you are unable to do it to level that would be deemed feasible........Are you serious

. I wonder what a court would say if it was brought to task? Students have the right to be taught by someone who is qualified, not saying the op cant do it..........but he is clearly concerned about his own ability.

Miss Lockhart · 22-08-2013 02:30PM

Yes, the reality in many cases is that the choice is between an unqualified physics teacher or no physics class at all. Now I fully understand those who would think that none at all may be the better option, but many others won't agree.

jimbo28 · 22-08-2013 02:30PM

Seanchai wrote: »

The solution to this rests with the state, as the paymaster, creating a centralised recruitment system for all schools in Ireland. Until it does so, schools will have little choice but to ask an existing member of staff to take classes in a subject for which they cannot get an outsider (as, for example, there may be only 4 hours available). If you were a principal in these circumstances, what would you do?

But its too easy to blame the system lads,What i am saying is that the op HAS a choice, its up to him.Of course management are wrong to do this, but like i said, he does have a choice.

Michael D Not Higgins · 22-08-2013 02:33PM

OP, how big is your school and are there any other physics teachers? Did someone retire last year?

jimbo28 · 22-08-2013 02:34PM

"And this high moral ground that you allude to? Well, that should be put to the person putting this teacher in that difficult position."

That it should! I wonder will the op do it, is the question i am asking?

Miss Lockhart · 22-08-2013 02:34PM

jimbo28 wrote: »

What a statement ...........not doing something because you are unable to do it to level that would be deemed feasible........Are you serious. I wonder what a court would say if it was brought to task? Students have the right to be taught by someone who is qualified, not saying the op cant do it..........but he is clearly concerned about his own ability.

I'm wondering, not stating anything. Your snide comment and hilarious smiley are entirely wasted.

My experience with our social welfare system would tell me that this may be an issue. I and many of my colleagues were strongly "encouraged" by sw officers to apply for jobs for which we were not qualified.

Seanchai · 22-08-2013 02:35PM

jimbo28 wrote: »

But its too easy to blame the system lads,What i am saying is that the op HAS a choice, its up to him.Of course management are wrong to do this, but like i said, he does have a choice.

What, then, is the cause of this if not the recruitment system?

Second, I believe the choice the OP has what the English might term a 'Hobson's Choice' - i.e. not a real choice if he wishes to keep his job. Would you be willing to risk your job by declining the request of your boss, a request which countless of your colleagues and competitors accept each September?

Asked to teach a subject not qualified in

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