Asked to teach a subject not qualified in

cb7

I have been asked to teach Physics this year and I don't have a clue of it. I did it for Junior cert science. I never did it at all in college. I am a Science teacher and Biology is my main area. I have expressed my concern to the principal but can I be made teach this subject?

Crazyteacher

It's not ideal but you need it to keep your job I suppose . Have you had a look at the curriculum ? Get yourself a text book to see if you could manage it .

Michael D Not Higgins

Is it at LC level? If you never studied the course it might be tricky to impart any knowledge to the students.

Seanchai

A centralised recruitment system - like An Garda Síochána - would reduce problems like this hugely by matching your qualified subjects up with a school which needs those subjects. Until that happens students across Ireland will continue to be taught by people unqualified for it. Clearly, the state doesn't car too much about this.

My advice as somebody who has been put in your situation: do it. The first day is the worst. You quickly realise you know far more than the students and this helps your confidence. You also know you need to know more so, at worst, you end up studying more to be one page ahead of the kids. You'll be grand.

cb7

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

Michael D Not Higgins

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

How are you with Physics and general maths. There can be a lot of equations in the course. I haven't seen the course since I did it over 10 years ago but there's also some more abstract stuff like nuclear physics too.

Seanchai

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

Never freak out. You are king, and your classroom is your castle.

cb7

Good thinking - Seanchai

km79

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

I have the same subjects as you . In my first 2 years I taught .......Maths to LC ordinary level , Chemistry to LC higher Level, physics to 4th years and .......Geography up to 4th year higher level including a Junior Cert class ! As well as other bits and pieces like computers , PE etc.
It's tough. You will have to put in a lot of long evenings. You MUST be fully prepared and keep a week or so ahead of class. My advice would be to do out notes on power point and /or acetates so you will have them for again. And make changes to any when necessary.
It's a good way to learn a course and ou may surprise yourself .

It's just one of those things. Although I thought the annual reg fee to the teaching council was supposed to regulate this kind of thing

Dave0301

cb7 wrote: »

Yes LC level . Just got the book. Freaking out!!

This is a great resource.

Has handouts for notes, questions, exam papers, how to revise physics and loads of Youtube videos. It is all split up into the relevant sections as well.

I am a physics teacher, so any questions, ask away.

cb7

Cool. Thanks for that - it looks very good. Think I am most worried about the practical experiments. Any good sites like that for Chemistry?

Dave0301

cb7 wrote: »

Cool. Thanks for that - it looks very good. Think I am most worried about the practical experiments. Any good sites like that for Chemistry?

This here should help with some of the practical aspect, there is also a practical chemistry section as well. I am not as familiar with chemistry resources sorry, although have a look at TES.

darragh o meara

A bit of advice I got a while back from one of my lecturers is to keep yourself 10 slides ahead of the class.

Donatas2

I know it's not like great way of teaching students but a teacher who must of been first year started teaching us physics last year. She didn't have much experience and the way she done it, read the text book and not even showed every experiment in the classroom, it was youtube videos she used. I know it's awful way to teach and i didn't learn anything but that could be the worst case scenario.

doc_17

Are you permanent there? If so try sticking to your guns. If not then jump into it and just prepare like crazy

jimbo28

Ask yourself, Could you get an A in the subject if you sat the exam? I find the general attitude in this thread quite alarming, if you dont know the subject, you should not be teaching it.Would you like to be taught your leaving cert course by somebody who didn't really know the subject? especially when you may be looking for a high grade. I hate to quote Maud Flanders but "Won't somebody think of the children". I'm not saying that your not able for it op but you obviously have alot of self doubt.Maybe its best not to take it on.On the points being made as to whether you are full time or not,this should not come into it.If management tell you that you have to take it, you can always tell them that you wont.If that is the case, you have to decide what decision you will make, you either let the kids down and keep your job, or do the right thing and tell management that you are not comfortable with the class and let the chips fall where they may! Best of luck with it.

Very good point about the teaching council,where is the regulation?

doc_17

jimbo28 wrote: »

Ask yourself, Could you get an A in the subject if you sat the exam? I find the general attitude in this thread quite alarming, if you dont know the subject, you should not be teaching it.Would you like to be taught your leaving cert course by somebody who didn't really know the subject? especially when you may be looking for a high grade. I hate to quote Maud Flanders but "Won't somebody think of the children". I'm not saying that your not able for it op but you obviously have alot of self doubt.Maybe its best not to take it on.On the points being made as to whether you are full time or not,this should not come into it.If management tell you that you have to take it, you can always tell them that you wont.If that is the case, you have to decide what decision you will make, you either let the kids down and keep your job, or do the right thing and tell management that you are not comfortable with the class and let the chips fall where they may! Best of luck with it.

Very good point about the teaching council,where is the regulation?

You expect them to possibly sacrifice their job because management are being unfair to them? I think that's being a bit unfair.

Michael D Not Higgins

The school is just using the resources it has to hand. They see science and biology teacher? Easy shuffle across to physics!

Dilly.

doc_17 wrote: »

You expect them to possibly sacrifice their job because management are being unfair to them? I think that's being a bit unfair.

What about the students? Is it not unfair to them to have a teacher who may have less of an understanding of the subject than they do?

jimbo28

doc_17 wrote: »

You expect them to possibly sacrifice their job because management are being unfair to them? I think that's being a bit unfair.

Would you expect your kids to be taught by a competent subject teacher? Young teachers are being pressured all of the time by management, this does not mean that they have to roll over and do what they are told.Do I expect him to give up his job? I expect him to have the nodes to do whats right by the kids, not by management.Not being a smart ass but its in our job description.I most certainly would not teach a subject to leving cert unless i was quite competent to do so.I think that what you are going to allude to doc17 is to say that its the systems/schools fault that this situation has arisen and that the op cannot do anything about it! The fact is he can do something about it if he wants! Its a difficult leaving cert subject subject not first year cspe.

doc_17

Dilly. wrote: »

What about the students? Is it not unfair to them to have a teacher who may have less of an understanding of the subject than they do?

It is unfair of course. Who said it wasn't? But the first victim here is the teacher. There are no winners.

Miss Lockhart

I wonder what the Social Welfare stance would be on losing a job because you refused to teach what your employer told you to.

doc_17

jimbo28 wrote: »

Would you expect your kids to be taught by a competent subject teacher? Young teachers are being pressured all of the time by management, this does not mean that they have to roll over and do what they are told.Do I expect him to give up his job? I expect him to have the nodes to do whats right by the kids, not by management.Not being a smart ass but its in our job description.I most certainly would not teach a subject to leving cert unless i was quite competent to do so.I think that what you are going to allude to doc17 is to say that its the systems/schools fault that this situation has arisen and that the op cannot do anything about it! The fact is he can do something about it if he wants! Its a difficult leaving cert subject subject not first year cspe.

See, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just don't think the teacher should haver to give up their employment. They have done nothing wrong. And this high moral ground that you allude to? Well, that should be put to the person putting this teacher in that difficult position.

Seanchai

jimbo28 wrote: »

I find the general attitude in this thread quite alarming, if you dont know the subject, you should not be teaching it.Would you like to be taught your leaving cert course by somebody who didn't really know the subject? especially when you may be looking for a high grade.

The solution to this rests with the state, as the paymaster, creating a centralised recruitment system for all schools in Ireland. That way it is far more likely that a teacher's qualifications will be matched up to the needs of a particular school. Until it does so, schools will have little choice but to ask an existing member of staff to take classes in a subject for which they cannot get an outsider (as, for example, there may be only 4 hours available). If you were a principal in these circumstances, what would you do?

Until Ruairí Quinn changes the recruitment system, students are going to continue to be taught by unqualified teachers.

jimbo28

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I wonder what the Social Welfare stance would be on losing a job because you refused to teach what your employer told you to.

What a statement ...........not doing something because you are unable to do it to level that would be deemed feasible........Are you serious. I wonder what a court would say if it was brought to task? Students have the right to be taught by someone who is qualified, not saying the op cant do it..........but he is clearly concerned about his own ability.

Miss Lockhart

Yes, the reality in many cases is that the choice is between an unqualified physics teacher or no physics class at all. Now I fully understand those who would think that none at all may be the better option, but many others won't agree.

jimbo28

Seanchai wrote: »

The solution to this rests with the state, as the paymaster, creating a centralised recruitment system for all schools in Ireland. Until it does so, schools will have little choice but to ask an existing member of staff to take classes in a subject for which they cannot get an outsider (as, for example, there may be only 4 hours available). If you were a principal in these circumstances, what would you do?

But its too easy to blame the system lads,What i am saying is that the op HAS a choice, its up to him.Of course management are wrong to do this, but like i said, he does have a choice.

Michael D Not Higgins

OP, how big is your school and are there any other physics teachers? Did someone retire last year?

jimbo28

"And this high moral ground that you allude to? Well, that should be put to the person putting this teacher in that difficult position."

That it should! I wonder will the op do it, is the question i am asking?

Miss Lockhart

jimbo28 wrote: »

What a statement ...........not doing something because you are unable to do it to level that would be deemed feasible........Are you serious. I wonder what a court would say if it was brought to task? Students have the right to be taught by someone who is qualified, not saying the op cant do it..........but he is clearly concerned about his own ability.

I'm wondering, not stating anything. Your snide comment and hilarious smiley are entirely wasted.

My experience with our social welfare system would tell me that this may be an issue. I and many of my colleagues were strongly "encouraged" by sw officers to apply for jobs for which we were not qualified.

Seanchai

jimbo28 wrote: »

But its too easy to blame the system lads,What i am saying is that the op HAS a choice, its up to him.Of course management are wrong to do this, but like i said, he does have a choice.

What, then, is the cause of this if not the recruitment system?

Second, I believe the choice the OP has what the English might term a 'Hobson's Choice' - i.e. not a real choice if he wishes to keep his job. Would you be willing to risk your job by declining the request of your boss, a request which countless of your colleagues and competitors accept each September?

jimbo28

Seanchai wrote: »

What, then, is the cause of this if not the recruitment system?

Second, I believe the choice the OP has what the English might term a 'Hobson's Choice' - i.e. not a real choice if he wishes to keep his job. Would you be willing to risk your job by declining the request of your boss, a request which countless of your colleagues and competitors accept each September?

I have done in the past and accepted the consequences, my choice.

jimbo28

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I'm wondering, not stating anything. Your snide comment and hilarious smiley are entirely wasted.

My experience with our social welfare system would tell me that this may be an issue. I and many of my colleagues were strongly "encouraged" by sw officers to apply for jobs for which we were not qualified.

And i wonder why teachers get such a hard time? Would you like dermatologist pulling out your teeth?

Miss Lockhart

jimbo28 wrote: »

And i wonder why teachers get such a hard time? Would you like dermatologist pulling out your teeth?

What has this got to do with what I would like?

I don't remember giving my opinion on the matter either way. I merely tried to tease out some considerations of making a decision to say no, then you jumped in with your sarcasm.

You think it's wrong to take such a position. We get it.

I'd like to actually discuss the topic.

Dave0301

jimbo28 wrote: »

I have done in the past and accepted the consequences, my choice.

What happened, if you don't mind me asking?

jimbo28

There is no discussion............If he is not able for it, he should not be doing it. FULL STOP.Its turning out to be a nice day outside, enjoy the rest of the discussion folks.

jimbo28

Dave0301 wrote: »

What happened, if you don't mind me asking?

I don't think it pertinent to discuss it on a public forum, you will just have to take my word for it.

Dilly.

doc_17 wrote: »

It is unfair of course. Who said it wasn't? But the first victim here is the teacher. There are no winners.

Well the fact that you thinks its unfair on the teacher to have to give up their job without mentioning the effect on the students if they keep their job doesn't show much concern for them.

Miss Lockhart

Dilly. wrote: »

Well the fact that you thinks its unfair on the teacher to have to give up their job without mentioning the effect on the students if they keep their job doesn't show much concern for them.

And what if the result of refusal is simply that the students don't get any class?

Dilly.

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

And what if the result of refusal is simply that the students don't get any class?

There is more to being a teacher than relaying information from a book. Any teacher worth their salt will want to instill a passion for the subject within their pupils. If the teacher does not understand or have an interest in the subject themselves they will not be able to do this. I feel for the teacher being put in this position, I really do, but to accept this job is unfair on the students. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Do you think it is ok for the subject to be offered and delivered by someone who is not qualified and not confident in delivering it?

Miss Lockhart

Dilly. wrote: »

There is more to being a teacher than relaying information from a book. Any teacher worth their salt will want to instill a passion for the subject within their pupils. If the teacher does not understand or have an interest in the subject themselves they will not be able to do this. I feel for the teacher being put in this position, I really do, but to accept this job is unfair on the students. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Do you think it is ok for the subject to be offered and delivered by someone who is not qualified and not confident in delivering it?

I completely understand this position. But the reality is that a huge number of parents snd pupils feel differently when the alternative is no class. I have seen it time and again in my school and the school I attended. Campaigns for minority subjects even when told the only option would be being taught by an unqualified teacher. Much anger at management unwilling to facilitate it.

doc_17

Dilly. wrote: »

There is more to being a teacher than relaying information from a book. Any teacher worth their salt will want to instill a passion for the subject within their pupils. If the teacher does not understand or have an interest in the subject themselves they will not be able to do this. I feel for the teacher being put in this position, I really do, but to accept this job is unfair on the students. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Do you think it is ok for the subject to be offered and delivered by someone who is not qualified and not confident in delivering it?

I'm assuming that the OP is already there in that school teaching what they are qualified to teach and that in addition to that they are being asked to teach Physics this coming year. It's not like there is a Physics job being advertised and they are applying for it, knowing they aren't able to do it.

Dilly.

doc_17 wrote: »

I'm assuming that the OP is already there in that school teaching what they are qualified to teach and that in addition to that they are being asked to teach Physics this coming year. It's not like there is a Physics job being advertised and they are applying for it, knowing they aren't able to do it.

surely that would put him in a stronger position to refuse it. I don't understand what your getting at here.

Miss Lockhart thats very interesting to get an 'inside' perspective. Its very sad to see the state our education system is in that parents and students actually fight to have a subject taught by a teacher unqualified in that subject as their only other option is to miss out altogether. I just think physics of all subjects, you either know it or you don't, I can't imagine trying to bluff it the way you might be able to get by with some other subjects!

jimbo28

doc_17 wrote: »

I'm assuming that the OP is already there in that school teaching what they are qualified to teach and that in addition to that they are being asked to teach Physics this coming year. It's not like there is a Physics job being advertised and they are applying for it, knowing they aren't able to do it.

What you have just said changes nothing, he IS being offered/asked to teach the class, whether he applied for it or not is irrelevant, it looks like you picked a sentence that was clearly self explanatory to anyone who read the thread and are trying to make a justification for said teacher. I also think dilly asked you a very good question" Do you think it is ok for the subject to be offered and delivered by someone who is not qualified and not confident in delivering it?"

That is unless the op was down at the dole office and was told to apply for it, even though he stated that he is not qualifed to do the job........you gotta love the civil service...................sure wont ya be grand doin the bit of extra teachin, sure who'll know the difference......good man....now off ya go. Next please!!!!!

Days 298

Biology and JC science teacher teaching leaving cert physics :eek: Unless she has a maths degree the students haven't a hope. It will be hard for students when everyone in the classroom is trying to learn and understand the stuff.

billybartley

I really do sympathize with the opening poster. It is a very tough situation to be placed, particularly if the poster is not permanent.

My initial reaction is that the poster should discuss the matter with the headmaster, and explain the position. I think the advice that he should muddle through is silly and far fetched. This is not a fluffy subject like english or music- you need to have deep understanding of physics to teach it. What's more students are not going to succeed if the teacher is merely regurgitating material from a textbook or online notes.

The point about being king is utter nonsense. In a subject like physics, if you don't know what you are talking about, you are jester not the king. Students who select physics are likely to be above average, and will very quickly figure out whether the teacher knows physics.

So, my advice, is say no - but say that your reason is concern for the integrity of the school, and the student's learning. Maybe they can pick someone else, and you can teach biology or geography

plein de force

i am absolutely shocked by some people on this thread thinking the OP should try blagging it. teaching a subject you are not qualified in nor have more than rudementary knowledge in is just asking for trouble, if you have no clue it will quickly become apparent to the class and they will suffer obviously. im not in teaching but i can just imagine being asked to teach accounting because i did a few modules of it in college, i wouldnt have a clue. If this is what teaching has been reduced to in ireland, basically reading a book out to a class, i fear its days as a noble profession are numbered.

billybartley

Well said.

cb7

I personally don't agree with teachers teaching subjects that they are not teaching council recognized for. However I am not going to lose my job over this. I have talked to the principal and expressed my concern I even have it in writing to principal that I feel incompetent/unqualified in the subject. If I am made to teach it I will have to I suppose. Someone retired last yr (part time teacher) so that's why I am being asked to teach it. They are not being replaced. Its a small school.

rainbowtrout

billybartley wrote: »

I really do sympathize with the opening poster. It is a very tough situation to be placed, particularly if the poster is not permanent.

My initial reaction is that the poster should discuss the matter with the headmaster, and explain the position. I think the advice that he should muddle through is silly and far fetched. This is not a fluffy subject like english or music- you need to have deep understanding of physics to teach it. What's more students are not going to succeed if the teacher is merely regurgitating material from a textbook or online notes.

The point about being king is utter nonsense. In a subject like physics, if you don't know what you are talking about, you are jester not the king. Students who select physics are likely to be above average, and will very quickly figure out whether the teacher knows physics.

So, my advice, is say no - but say that your reason is concern for the integrity of the school, and the student's learning. Maybe they can pick someone else, and you can teach biology or geography

Are you a teacher or just trolling the forum?

English and Music are not fluffy subjects, I would not teach them for love nor money. I wouldn't know where to start. What's with the subject snobbery?


OP - Are you permanent or part time?
Is there anyone else in the school that would be in a better position to teach physics other than you, e.g. a chemistry or engineering teacher?
Is this situation as a result of a teacher leaving/retiring and the school can't hire a new teacher due to cutbacks and are just trying to make do with the staff available, hence you being asked to teach physics?
Is this a short term thing for one year (while a teacher is away on career break, maternity leave etc) or is it likely to develop into a long term thing?


Assuming refusing isn't an option and that you teach junior cert science, while not ideal the leaving cert course in physics like any other is building on what was done at junior cert. Take out the physics book and study it, and do the exam questions to go with each section until you understand it, if you have leaving certs.

cb7

No other teachers able to teach it in school. Other teacher has Biology like me. There not replacing retired teacher due to cutbacks. In school a few years have CID contract (thank god). Concerned I could be redeployed to another school. I love the school I am in.