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When Routine turns to Violence

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Comments

  • #32
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    McCrack wrote: »

    I mean what more do you need? I appreciate there's also a good argument for arming Gardai but that's another days discussion.

    Mk 9 foam canisters and tazers would help, full ballistic vests could also assist. PR 24 batons for foot patrol units and zip cuffs in case required. But that's an outsiders view I am sure ags members would have a better idea.

    Plus I agree that if someone does not want to be in handcuffs it takes a lot to put them on.


  • #33
    dfbemt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭dfbemt


    There were a lot of comments about the bald officer not helping out the injured officer during the scuffle.

    This episode is just on BBC at the moment. Turns out he had fractured his finger during the scuffle. Not shown on the liveleak video and back at the police station they found in the bike 24 bags of cannabis @ £20 per bag, enough for intent to supply charge and a search of his house.

    Puts a different slant on the liveleak video


  • #34
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,514 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    McCrack wrote: »
    Firstly I appreciate your willingness to engage in this discussion (as opposed to the ones that don't except to hit the thanks button) and I get a sense your views are honestly held.

    Thank you! It's hard enough to defend our job, as we have to be ever careful of what we say doesn't end up encroaching on a persons rights, and that we're constantly aware of the Official Secrets Act, the Code, the Guide, the Law, etc. I'm posting here as a person giving their view on the job, and not as an official representative of AGS.
    McCrack wrote: »
    The law on the use of force is as fair as can be. It protects you as much as it does them. A Garda as much as a private citizen can use force so long as its lawful, proportionate to the threat and reasonable. In other words you can meet fire with fire. This has always been the case, certainly 90 odd years now. How you use force and how much you use is a matter for you to decide based on the things I've already mentioned.

    I agree that it's quite fair, but the one thing it doesn't factor in in this; when we use force, we have to be aware of the justifiable use, the legalities of it, the effect it may or may not have, the next course of action, if what we do is the correct course of action, can i legally stand behind my actions, etc. A criminal doesn't have to think about any of this, he just wants to either get away or cause harm. I know there isn't much we can do in that regards, but those decisions having to be made in milliseconds makes it harder for us.
    McCrack wrote: »
    The heavy hand culture is gone and you're accountable now to an independent body. A Garda who is given certain rights and privileges is charged with upholding the law and he must work within it. This I think is what you have a problem with.

    I've no problem working within the law, my problem is that if i step so much as a toe outside it, i won't be backed up and my private life can take a hit because of it. The same criminal who i'm trying to arrest gets off lightly, usually. There needs to be more protection for us, stricter sentencing with no concurrent sentences. Criminals need to be properly punished for taking a certain course with AGS, and other emergency personnel, but it's rare that they are convicted of what they should be, a major case for this being Garda McCallion (RIP).
    McCrack wrote: »
    As well since the mid 1990's there's been a huge amount of criminal justice and road traffic legislation enacted all the time giving more and more powers to Gardai for investigating crime and detaining suspects as well as encroaching on suspects right to silence. The balance I believe has now tilted in favour of the Gardai in terms of powers given by law.

    It's still far from in our favour. Granted, we have powers we never had in relation to major crime investigation, but for the average crime, burglary, robbery, theft, criminal damage, etc, the law is still in the favour of the criminal. The technicalities that criminals get off on, even if the evidence is overwhelming, is farcical. I can understand beyond reasonable doubt, it's necessary, but common sense should also play a part, and it doesn't.
    McCrack wrote: »
    And then there's the equipment that you are now issued with to help control violent persons and also PPE that is fairly recent too.

    Pepper Spray can be effective, but not the whole time. The ASP is useful, but can lead to more problems than solutions. The stab vest is probably useful (i've not yet been stabbed, i don't know), but's it's cumbersome, it doesn't breathe and weighs quite a bit. It's the cheapest option they could get, in comparison to our colleages up North or across the water (an actual
    vest!). Handcuffs ranging from loose, to semi-rigid, they should all be semi-rigid at least.
    McCrack wrote: »
    I mean what more do you need? I appreciate there's also a good argument for arming Gardai but that's another days discussion.

    Tazers. Consistently proven to be the most effective non-lethal method of force out there. The amount of situations that can be resolved, or even prevented with the threat alone of one, is staggering. It stops (the majority of) people where they are. More effective than pepper spray or an ASP, with less mess and less chance of cross-contamination.

    But, all this makes sense to me, and plenty of people i know. Just not to those with red on their shoulders... They only see €€€'s.


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