Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours - 2013/14

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 08:41AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Out of interest, (and this has been pointed out time and time again but you choose to ignore it at a stage where it's nearly trolling), but who has backed our transfer policy?

the fact that ive yet to see you and a few more actually condemn Woodward and you also keep talking about end of windows, to me shows you still back the policy.

and as i have asked time and time again, why are you ok to wait until end of the window, when we have had 3 months to sort deals.

we will sign players, i am sure of this, but it does not change the fact that so far, we have looked like cowboys in the transfer window.

can you at least admit that so far, its been really poorly handled?or explain why you think its ok to wait until the end of the window?

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Anyway, does anyone know how long Baines has left on his contract? Would the low bids be because Moyes knows he only has a short time left?

mixed feedback on this. some people think its june 2014, but others have said its 2015.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'd agree with this. Strikes me Moyes would kind of like Baines but won't break the bank for him. I'd imagine 28m is about 20m for Fel (which isn't far off what he's worth) and 8m for Baines...

its £16m for Fellani and £12 for Baines according to BBC.

Danger781 · 19-08-2013 08:50AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the fact that ive yet to see you and a few more actually condemn Woodward and you also keep talking about end of windows, to me shows you still back the policy.

and as i have asked time and time again, why are you ok to wait until end of the window, when we have had 3 months to sort deals.

we will sign players, i am sure of this, but it does not change the fact that so far, we have looked like cowboys in the transfer window.

can you at least admit that so far, its been really poorly handled?or explain why you think its ok to wait until the end of the window?

I don't recall him saying that it is okay to wait until the end of the window

He said he is willing to wait until it is finished before screaming bloody murder like you've been doing since day one of the window.

Lord TSC · 19-08-2013 08:53AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the fact that ive yet to see you and a few more actually condemn Woodward and you also keep talking about end of windows, to me shows you still back the policy.

and as i have asked time and time again, why are you ok to wait until end of the window, when we have had 3 months to sort deals.

we will sign players, i am sure of this, but it does not change the fact that so far, we have looked like cowboys in the transfer window.

can you at least admit that so far, its been really poorly handled?or explain why you think its ok to wait until the end of the window?

I'll admit that the window has not gone how I'd have liked it to go, but again I say, there's a spectrum. I'm not thrilled or excited about how we've dealt with the window, but nor am I at the part where I say it's a disgrace and an insult that we've signed nobody. I'm getting nervous, granted. But I won't hit the end of that spectrum till the end of the transfer window.

For me, the window will be based on the quality of players we get in and if they fill the needs of the team. I'd have liked the players in quicker, but that's not going to be the determining factor in whether or not I judge the window as a success or not. What will make me happy is who we get, how big a need we had for them, with when we get them as third priority.

As far as Woodward goes, I've said before that I don't mind seeing "lower" bids going in; taking Baines for example, we might want him but there's not a need there, so we don't need to go crazy at him.
With Fabregas, I believe if we had started at 40m in the bids, then Barca would have wanted 70m. Thats negotiations 101, and honestly, I think the chances of getting him were pretty slim anyway. I think United probably gave up on him weeks ago, hence no third bid, but the press won't let the story drop; it's the media driving the story, not United. So as far as starting bids go, from what I've seen, I won't condemn him. He thought a player might be available, so made a bid. Barca said "**** off", we tried again, they said "**** off" again and that was the end of it.

Now, that said, if (again) we hit the end of the window and no one comes in, and there's signs that's because Woodward was penny pinching, then I'll step right beside you and condemn him, rightly so. But I'm not going to start saying he did a disgraceful job when, by all evidence, he's still in the process of doing that job.

Will I Amnt · 19-08-2013 08:57AM

^^Couldn't sum it up any better than that, good post.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 08:59AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Now, that said, if (again) we hit the end of the window and no one comes in, and there's signs that's because Woodward was penny pinching, then I'll step right beside you and condemn him, rightly so. But I'm not going to start saying he did a disgraceful job when, by all evidence, he's still in the process of doing that job.

so signing a player now changes everything and those who have condemned Woodward will be wrong?

i still expect us to sign players and have made that clear from the beginning but i wont be bought into giving the man a pat on the back for a job he could ahd should have got done weeks and weeks ago.

deadline day is only a date on a calender, the one that matters to me is one where the players are given enough time to settle into the club and have their impact made. and the fact that we are bidding for Baines who we dont need, is baffling, really really baffling.

Your Airbag · 19-08-2013 09:00AM

The independent are saying we were offered Ozil for 40m and refused to take him. They also say we have pulled out of the race for Willian.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-pull-out-of-race-to-sign-willian-and-also-turn-down-move-for-mesut-ozil-8772356.html

tallaghtmick · 19-08-2013 09:02AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The independent are saying we were offered Ozil for 40m and refused to take him. They also say we have pulled out of the race for Willian.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-pull-out-of-race-to-sign-willian-and-also-turn-down-move-for-mesut-ozil-8772356.html

If thats true then

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 09:03AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The independent are saying we were offered Ozil for 40m and refused to take him. They also say we have pulled out of the race for Willian.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-pull-out-of-race-to-sign-willian-and-also-turn-down-move-for-mesut-ozil-8772356.html

both of those are the correct decision i think.

Soldie · 19-08-2013 09:07AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The independent are saying we were offered Ozil for 40m and refused to take him. They also say we have pulled out of the race for Willian.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-pull-out-of-race-to-sign-willian-and-also-turn-down-move-for-mesut-ozil-8772356.html

master-t · 19-08-2013 09:07AM

Jesus we beat Swansea away 4-1, with the exact squad from last season, minus a committed Rooney for 60 minutes of it, and still it's panic stations.

Will everyone just calm the f**k down.

People saying they would only be happy with Fellaini IF he was signed in conjuncture with someone like Cesc, Ozil or Modric. Well, I hate to break it to you, but Cesc is completely unavailable and Modric and Ozil are two totally different players. So I am not sure what you are hoping for there friend.

Bidding for Baines confuses me, as it would appear Evra is totally committed and focused on United, therefore not looking to move. The bid for Fellaini needs to be higher. But, I assume United are looking for the players to itch a bit now. Seeing Everton reject their bids, may make the players heads turn, and perhaps suggest a move would be best. United then improve the offer.

I will happily as a fan have Baines and Evra in the Same Team (Edit - Squad). I just don't know how Moyes could keep both happy. But i'll take either as a back up over Buttner or Fabio.

The media licking Jose's balls after he beat a newly promoted, yet terribly poor, Hull City side 2-0 at home. With his new signings. We beat Swansea, a side held in high regard for their football last season, improved with new players, 4-1 away in Moyes first game in charge with pretty much the same squad as last season and we beat them comfortably. The media still not convinced.

Would you every f**k off you ABU journos.

Will I Amnt · 19-08-2013 09:08AM

Don't really need a player like Özil but he's in that bracket that you can't really turn down.

If only they were to offer Modric...
Class act last night.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 09:09AM

is the Ozil story is true, then maybe they will be willing to do a deal on Modric.

master-t wrote: »

Jesus we beat Swansea away 4-1, with the exact squad from last season, minus a committed Rooney for 60 minutes of it, and still it's panic stations.

Will everyone just calm the f**k down.

where exactly is the panic stations? i dont see anybody panicking, i do see people however baffled that we are bidding for a player we dont need and trying to get another for a half assed price.

tis your good self that needs to calm down a little and stop over reacting to what is, just a discussion about some news that has just broken today and is completely irrelevant to the win which i think everybody is delighted with.

master-t · 19-08-2013 09:10AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The independent are saying we were offered Ozil for 40m and refused to take him. They also say we have pulled out of the race for Willian.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/transfer-news-manchester-united-pull-out-of-race-to-sign-willian-and-also-turn-down-move-for-mesut-ozil-8772356.html

We don't need either. Ozil is a cracking player, but then say goodbye to Kagawa as that is where Ozil plays best. We could play him out wide, but then say goodbye to Nani/ Valencia/ Young - two of three I imagine. But he would want to play in the Number 10 and that is where people want Kagawa or Rooney/

As for Willian? For 35m? Liverpool can have him. No problems there.

Will I Amnt · 19-08-2013 09:12AM

There's no way Liverpool would pay 35m for a player... :pac:

Quandary · 19-08-2013 09:13AM

Fellaini should have been signed 2 months ago. Simple as that really. £23m was a fair price for him and he should be settled in, having the craic with his new team mates at this stage. Instead Woodward decides to publically chase Cesc Fabregas and open the bidding with an embarrassingly low £25m bid.

Now he opens the bidding for Evertons best 2 players with a combined bid of £28m??? Thats like someone offering Liverpool £35m for Suarezcand Coutinho! Low balling at this late stage of the window is appallingly stupid. The selling club is holding all the cards right now and all this is will do is aggravate them. The entire world knows Utd are desperate to strengthen to midfield, the entire world has heard us come out and proclaim we have lots of money to spend and aren't afraid to spend it.

Our transfer business has been handled terribly this summer. There is no other way to say it IMO. I would love to hear Fergie and Gills thoughts on it.

Very disappointing.

Technophobe · 19-08-2013 09:19AM

This.

Soldie wrote: »

Really hope that bid is just a rumour. Absolutely load of bollocks if true. Baines is good but we simply don't need him. I'd be happy with Fellaini but only if he was signed in conjunction with someone like Fabregas, Ozil or Modric.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 09:19AM

Quandary wrote: »

Fellaini should have been signed 2 months ago. Simple as that really. £23m was a fair price for him and he should be settled in, having the craic with his new team mates at this stage. Instead Woodward decides to publically chase Cesc Fabregas and open the bidding with an embarrassingly low £25m bid.

Our transfer business has been handled terribly this summer. There is no other way to say it IMO. I would love to hear Fergie and Gills thoughts on it.

Very disappointing.

summed up perfectly. the real worry now is that we are going to end up having to bid much more than £23million for Fellani and even now, that the claus has expired, Everton are under no obligation to sell.

they need time to replace him also and i dont think if it goes another week, we will get him at all. i think we are going to need to bid big to get him, around £25+million and we need to forget about Baines too.

Everton are believed to be highly insulted by the bids and i cant see Everton being too happy with Moyes either.

TheDoc · 19-08-2013 09:22AM

I for one don't mind seeing the club get good value and be smart with their money. As fans we can simply be obvlious to the actual dealings of large money movements.

When you want a new car, do you research your options, do you shop around, and when you settle on something, do you not engage in some haggling? Or do you just walk into a random dealer and shout you want a car, name your price.?

Look at Arsenal, last season they panic bought at the end of the season and got royally ****ed over paying top dollar for average players.

Everyone knows that Everton are looking for investors, and they are always a club strapped for cash. While our initial bid is low, of course, what also needs to be considered is that there is some certain facts that need to be deserved. Typically things like international caps and european experience go into the fray when it comes to evaluation. We are bidding for two players with limited international exposure, and pretty much zero champions league experience, and no title contention experience.

While we can maybe acknowledge these guys are good players with great potential, there is no guarantees they will make the grade. It's wise to be smart with money, no matter how desperate, or how much money we have.

Kenwright is looking to sell, Everton are sweating for investors, Martinez most likely has some targets he wants to sign but cant. While not ideal, it would look like we are putting the sweats onto Everton here. They are a club that normally doesn't refuse sizeable offers for their starlets. They simply can't afford to hold onto them.

In terms of the players themselves, I'm pretty sure they are foaming at the mouth to sign for United, to work under the manager that brought them to the forefront of EPL football. In a potential World Cup year, to be playing for Manchester United and put in a decent season will do a world of good. This , for Baines expecially, is a great opportunity to usurp Cole.

While some guys here are saying that Baines isn't required due to Evra, I have to disagree. I think when the opportunity presents itself to sign the leagues ( imo) best left back, that needs to be taken, to ensure we have some longevity. When have we been "sweating" for wingbacks as a main signing? I can't really remember, because we have had good cover that has been bought early, but then grows into it.

Wasn't so long ago alot of people were clamining Smalling was a sensational right back....and look for Rafael turned out. Paddy unfortunately isn't going to be around forever, and having a top class left back to step into his shoes, I'll gladly take it.

I think the only thing for this deal will be agreeing the fee between the clubs, I would imagine the player stuff will get wrapped up quickly. Hopefully some good movement this week. We also need to appreciate we have a new guy dealing with these transfers. He will probably be playing it conservative at first and working his way up. That Comolli(spellcheck) for Liverpool is probably now an industry use case as to how NOT to deal in the transfer market, and is probably the #1 way to loose your job.
Moyes and Woodward need to be smart aswell with their money. While they are clearly getting serious backing to ensure everyone appreciates the manager has the boards full support, if he spunks massive money on average players, there will be questions asked about his capabilities for the position, and funds may be restricted in the future to him .

Rubber_Soul · 19-08-2013 09:22AM

TheTownie · 19-08-2013 09:23AM

master-t wrote: »

Jesus we beat Swansea away 4-1, with the exact squad from last season, minus a committed Rooney for 60 minutes of it, and still it's panic stations.

Will everyone just calm the f**k down.

People saying they would only be happy with Fellaini IF he was signed in conjuncture with someone like Cesc, Ozil or Modric. Well, I hate to break it to you, but Cesc is completely unavailable and Modric and Ozil are two totally different players. So I am not sure what you are hoping for there friend.

Bidding for Baines confuses me, as it would appear Evra is totally committed and focused on United, therefore not looking to move. The bid for Fellaini needs to be higher. But, I assume United are looking for the players to itch a bit now. Seeing Everton reject their bids, may make the players heads turn, and perhaps suggest a move would be best. United then improve the offer.

I will happily as a fan have Baines and Evra in the Same Team. I just don't know how Moyes could keep both happy. But i'll take either as a back up over Buttner or Fabio.

The media licking Jose's balls after he beat a newly promoted, yet terribly poor, Hull City side 2-0 at home. With his new signings. We beat Swansea, a side held in high regard for their football last season, improved with new players, 4-1 away in Moyes first game in charge with pretty much the same squad as last season and we beat them comfortably. The media still not convinced.

Would you every f**k off you ABU journos.

Its not a case of us being happy or content with having Baines and Evra. The fact is Baines wouldn't join us unless he was assured he would be the number 1 left back and if he was promised that then Evra would want out immediately and rightly so because neither are at a stage in their careers where they would be happy to play second fiddle to anyone.

And with no signs or evidence of Evra wanting out the only way signing Baines makes sense is if Moyes wants rid of Evra which I for one wouldn't be too happy about because there are many others players that need moving on before Evra.

Lord TSC · 19-08-2013 09:23AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so signing a player now changes everything and those who have condemned Woodward will be wrong?

It makes people who "condemned" him look a tad foolish imo. Ultimately, if your opinion is he should be condemned, so be it, but I think a more proper response would be to be frustrated and nervous, and as time goes on, those feelings should grow and possibly develop into the level you're at. But you've been angry and furious for weeks now, in a way that looks completely over the top for the situation we're actually in. There was no gestation period; you were screaming bloody murder from the day he came in...

the fact that we are bidding for Baines who we dont need, is baffling, really really baffling.

Is it? With midfield sorted out, our next weakest area would be left back. Evra had a great season last year, and would be my first pick for this season too, BUT if he gets hurt, we're screwed; Buttner isn't good enough to be our first choice for any length of time, and Fabio obviously didn't inspire confidence in Fergie et al, given they sent him out on loan all last season.

We need cover for Evra. If Moyes gets Baines for less than 10m, given he's English and one of the best left backs in the country, then I'll be thrilled. He'll be brilliant cover and have time to settle (something you so strongly desire) before Evra moves on next summer or the one after.

And if we don't get him, then meh. Not a disaster. Just a luxury that, if available, I don't think we should turn down. Especially when I think some other names, like Shaw, would be twice as expensive and not half as proven.

Lord TSC · 19-08-2013 09:25AM

Just saw this on Sky Sports....

Eduardo Hernandez, the representative of Manchester United striker Javier Hernandez, has told El Universal that he has held talks with Valencia over a possible summer switch, but has told the La Liga outfit that the Mexico international is happy at Old Trafford.

"Valencia were really interested. I had the opportunity to talk to the sporting director but Javier wants to consolidate himself in Manchester."

SlickRic · 19-08-2013 09:26AM

£28m is a pretty horrendous offer for the 2 of them.

yes, this is business, but Moyes should be embarrassed at that tbh.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 09:29AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Look at Arsenal, last season they panic bought at the end of the season and got royally ****ed over paying top dollar for average players.

you are actually contradicting yourself here. the later it goes, the more desperate we get. look how we got f*cked over with the Berbatov deal. panic is leaving it until two weeks to go.....

The_Kew_Tour · 19-08-2013 09:31AM

I don't know what to think anymore.

It's bit like when you study for exams. Thinking everything will be fine and you hold off the study till next week or week after. Than it's down to days and you start to sweat and realise you have to get your ass into gear.

That's United summed up this summer.

Kirby · 19-08-2013 09:31AM

master-t wrote: »

The media licking Jose's balls after he beat a newly promoted, yet terribly poor, Hull City side 2-0 at home. With his new signings. We beat Swansea, a side held in high regard for their football last season, improved with new players, 4-1 away in Moyes first game in charge with pretty much the same squad as last season and we beat them comfortably. The media still not convinced.

Would you every f**k off you ABU journos.

Did you even watch the game? The football Chelsea played in the first half was pure sex to watch. It's the best I've seen them play in years. The movement and interplay between Oscar, Hazard, Debruyne with excellent and was the best football on offer to watch of the weekend....atleast the first half.

You accuse other people of being "ABU"s but it seems you are just irritated that a rival is being praised for playing well.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2013 09:32AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

We need cover for Evra. If Moyes gets Baines for less than 10m, given he's English and one of the best left backs in the country, then I'll be thrilled.

you do realise that we will have to pay around £15million for him, at least? so im not really sure why your talking about being thrilled to get for £10million when weve already had 2 bids for more than that turned down.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It makes people who "condemned" him look a tad foolish imo.

lol, i f* king knew this was going to happen. so, even though i still expect us to sign players and have been clear about this all summer, i will look foolish for condemning him for doing a job he is paid to do, but 4-8 weeks later than he should have done?????? thats laughable. its like a player being utterly shi*te for 3 months and then playing one good game at the end of that run and people lording him for being greate.

good grief, if your that easily bought then there is no point debating with me any points about transfers as your are never going to agree with me on how the club should work.
there has been a litany of errors this summer. i see them, most of us do, but for some reason you seem to think that we should forget about them.

TheTownie · 19-08-2013 09:33AM

SlickRic wrote: »

£28m is a pretty horrendous offer for the 2 of them.

yes, this is business, but Moyes should be embarrassed at that tbh.

And if you're trying to negotiate as low a price as possible, waiting until over half way through August is not a good time to start.

With Utd seemingly not in desperate need of Baines they should be putting in a take it or leave it offer.

adox · 19-08-2013 09:35AM

Just ****ing sign Fellaini and be done with it. We dont need Baines and its a distraction.

Fellaini will be a huge improvement to the team and most here would have been delighted with his siging before the summer.

He may seem like a consolation prize now, after the business with Thiago and Fabregas but I will happily take him now and if thats our only signing I will be content with the summer, maybe not the way it was done.

Offer the money hes worth, get him signed. Anyone else after that will be a bonus.

cournioni · 19-08-2013 09:35AM

Quandary wrote: »

Fellaini should have been signed 2 months ago. Simple as that really. £23m was a fair price for him and he should be settled in, having the craic with his new team mates at this stage. Instead Woodward decides to publically chase Cesc Fabregas and open the bidding with an embarrassingly low £25m bid.

Now he opens the bidding for Evertons best 2 players with a combined bid of £28m??? Thats like someone offering Liverpool £35m for Suarezcand Coutinho! Low balling at this late stage of the window is appallingly stupid. The selling club is holding all the cards right now and all this is will do is aggravate them. The entire world knows Utd are desperate to strengthen to midfield, the entire world has heard us come out and proclaim we have lots of money to spend and aren't afraid to spend it.

Our transfer business has been handled terribly this summer. There is no other way to say it IMO. I would love to hear Fergie and Gills thoughts on it.

Very disappointing.

Totally agree. I think its down to poor dealings by both Moyes and Woodward.

I think the delay in entering the transfer market is down to Moyes as I'm sure he will have wanted a closer look at the players at United in both training and competitive action to see what improvements needed to be made, I'd say the delay in going in for Fellaini and Baines was down to Moyes not knowing if they were good enough to be in the United team/squad or not.

Woodward's dealings of all transfers so far has been shocking and he has been a failure on all fronts so far. All initial bids United have put in so far this summer have been nothing short of insulting and laughable. I don't think he's doing United any favours at all in the long run.

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours - 2013/14

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