Ladies your opinions on men using brothels and prostitutes

augusta24 · 16-08-2013 06:24PM

fockewulf wrote: »

I don't need conversation, just sex occasionally. If it was properly regulated then the "risk" of a woman having sex against her will would be practically non-existant. Believe me a woman in her 40s or 50s flying in from the UK for the weekend is very unlikely to be coerced, she is just in it for the money plain and simple.

Fair enough but does it not bother you that deep down that woman is not actually enjoying what she's doing? Or that she may not even find you attractive?

Or do you actually believe she could be enjoying it? Because that's what I think men tell themselves to make them feel better about it. Obviously the woman pretended to enjoy it.... Sure she wants the money!

clairefontaine · 16-08-2013 06:27PM

augusta24 wrote: »

Fair enough but does it not bother you that deep down that woman is not actually enjoying what she's doing? Or that she may not even find you attractive?

Or do you actually believe she could be enjoying it? Because that's what I think men tell themselves to make them feel better about it. Obviously the woman pretended to enjoy it.... Sure she wants the money!

If they thinkmofmit like a service I doubt they care whether she enjoys it or not. Like I said before, creepy or just very very sad.

GalwayGuy2 · 16-08-2013 06:45PM

Sinking to a new low....men are entitled to sex now?

Nobody is entitled to sex.

Yeah, but people are entitled to their own desire for intimacy, as long as it doesn't adversely impact anybody else.

fockewulf · 16-08-2013 06:52PM

OK - Hypothetically speaking suppose the wife doesn't want to have sex but she has it anyway just to shut you up - Is that coercion? I mean no guy in his right mind would marry a woman who wouldn't have sex with him and believe me nothing was a problem before we got married and for a few years afterwards, then boom! suddenly no more.

Like is that fair? From sex kitten before marriage to don't touch me afterwards.

Believe it or not, women do use sex appeal to get what they want be it money or to climb the corporate ladder. I know lots of guys who have bought drink all night for a woman with the tacit understanding that a bit of hanky panky was on the cards later on and who then laughed at the guys and walked off. At least if they went to a prostitute, they would know where they stand so there is more honesty that way.

Czarcasm · 16-08-2013 06:53PM

MaxWig wrote: »

I think perhaps people have a very simplistic view of what sex is.
To say sex is not in short supply is meaningless. I think what you are saying is that there is flesh and genitalia, heads and bodies all over the place.
That is true.

You don't need a PhD in biology or psychology to have sex Max, it's not me has reduced the discussion merely to the physical act or a business transaction. I'm only working with what I'm given.

Yet anxiety, depression and loneliness are practically endemic in modern society.

People feel isolated from each other, from talking to one another, not to mention jumping into bed.
People lock themselves in bedrooms and hide from the world because they 'don't know what to say' to people. People cut themselves, and starve themselves because they hate how they look and how they feel.

Visiting a sex worker isn't going to solve their issues in the long term. Their money may be better spent seeing a mental health professional.

Telling people to make more of an effort is akin to telling a depressive that they need to pull themselves together. This of course is not the only reason people use the services of prostitutes, but if someone can derive comfort of any kind from such services, well, bully for them.

Visiting a sex worker as I said, isn't going to solve their issues. People suffering from mental health issues require the services of a mental health professional and if you actually REALLY gave a damn about these people instead of just using them to make some touchy feely point, you'd see that a quick fumble between the sheets with a "tart with a heart" so to speak, really isn't going to make them feel any better about themselves in the long term. It's only going to make their pockets feel a bit lighter, not their minds. The best sex workers are ruthless, they don't care about their client's problems either- "Get in, get off, get out!" It's that simple.

I just don't get your line of reasoning.

I think you're suggesting that clients are like a big lonely hearts club, who just haven't been able to 'meet the right person'.

Way off imo.

Your opinion from what I can gather is that there is a 'right' way to live. Make some effort, look around, smell the opportunity in the air, see the people who want to meet you etc..

I'm sorry but many people inhabit different worlds than you do.

The majority of people inhabit the world I do tbh, the amount of people in comparison who avail of the services of sex workers are squarely in the minority.

You may disagree with their motives, and how they act upon their desires - you may even disagree with their desires, but that's irrelevant.

Irrelevant? You come out with a statement that sex workers are paid to fcuk off, and how that's it in a nutshell, and then you change up and start giving it welly expecting anyone should give a fiddlers for those who visit sex workers?

I've let you steer the discussion so far Max and tbh you've done a bang up job of driving yourself into a cul-de-sac, but by all means I'd love to see you pull a three point turn on a one way street and tell me what you consider relevant. I'm only along for the ride.

Fact of the matter is that just below the visible surface of society, people are getting all kinds of freaky. I'm certain that there are men who use the services of prostitutes because they are in relationships where blow-jobs are annual, and this and that are dirty, and its missionary or nothing, or sex is off the table, or they like to pretend to be manga characters when they fcuk, or whatever you're having yourself.

Ohh trust me Max, I know only too well some people got some freaky deaky shìt goin' on, but y'know what the best bit is? They've got it going on for free! If a person prefers to venture on the freaky side, there's nothing stopping them leaving their marriage and indulging their every sexual fantasy elsewhere, for free! Whether they want to leave their marriage to avail of this free sex is another story though. There's no such thing as being stuck with someone you don't want to be with, and if you don't want to leave, that's your own tough titty.

I would imagine that the appeal of prostitutes is that you don't have to pretend to be someone you're not, even when you are pretending to be someone else, if that makes sense.

Totally makes sense Max, but you don't have to visit sex workers to enjoy role play and fantasy, it's available freely if you're prepared to put in the very little effort required.

16-08-2013 07:09PM

fockewulf wrote: »

OK - Hypothetically speaking suppose the wife doesn't want to have sex but she has it anyway just to shut you up - Is that coercion? I mean no guy in his right mind would marry a woman who wouldn't have sex with him and believe me nothing was a problem before we got married and for a few years afterwards, then boom! suddenly no more.

Like is that fair? From sex kitten before marriage to don't touch me afterwards.

Believe it or not, women do use sex appeal to get what they want be it money or to climb the corporate ladder. I know lots of guys who have bought drink all night for a woman with the tacit understanding that a bit of hanky panky was on the cards later on and who then laughed at the guys and walked off. At least if they went to a prostitute, they would know where they stand so there is more honesty that way.

Can I ask why does you wife not want to have sex with you? does she really think ye have a happy marriage/life, is she in complete denial or what.

vitani · 16-08-2013 07:14PM

If it was the other way round (and impotency is a common problem with men of a certain age) I wonder how many women would resort to the services of a gigolo. I'd guess not nearly as many.

I wonder is that down to natural biological urges, or societal - are men just brought up to believe that sex is an entitlement.

beks101 · 16-08-2013 10:06PM

I have a friend who told me he's visited a few prostitutes in his time, as have tonnes of his mates.

He described it simply as so: easy sex without any complications. A straight-forward transaction where a horny guy doesn't have to worry about offending a lady, or cranking up the charm and wooing her with dates, drinks, conversation, laughter...for what might not even transpire in the end anyway.

That's what a typical night out might entail. He might meet someone attractive...with a lot of 'effort', it might or might not happen. Meanwhile, he needs to get his rocks off; with a prostitute, there is no 'might'. There is no confusion. In one simple transaction, he's getting laid.

Personally, there are just too many incompatibilities going on with that kind of mentality towards sex for me to be comfortable with that kind of guy.

For one, mutual satisfaction is the most important part of sex for me. I need to know that my partner wants me and wants to be there. I need to know, to be crude, that he's enjoying being inside me. He wants it as badly as I do. Without that, it's just mechanical; I may as well be doing 20 minutes on an elliptical machine for the amount of pleasure I'm going to derive from it.

For another, I love sex. But I don't view sex as a 'need'. It's not like food or water; things that you physically can't survive without.

I don't view people as being 'entitled' to it, or 'deprived' of it if they're going through a dry spell. I've gone through spells of no-sex that have lasted months, sometimes years...and my brain hasn't exploded. My body hasn't spontaneously combusted. If I'm having sex, I'm typically having a lot of sex - it's the most pleasurable part of my day and I can't get enough of it - but if I'm not, I'm OK too. I have other means. I've been ridiculously horny too where sex wasn't immediately available - there are other things you can do, you know? There are endless ways to fulfill that urge without resorting to paying for it. So on that premise, a man visiting a prostitute to fulfill a 'need' is just a language I don't really speak.

And thirdly - probably related to my last point - emotional intimacy is what makes sex great to me. Without that connection, I'm just going through the motions. Without that connection, I'm unlikely to orgasm. I've done the ONS, casual sex thing over the years and from that I've learned that wham, bam, thank you ma'am is personally unfulfilling, empty sex that leaves me feeling uncomfortable, unhappy, unsettled.

I guess what it boils down to is I need a man to give a sh1t about me for sex to be good. He needs to care about my orgasm, my needs, my feelings.

And the idea of 'buying' sex off a woman - 'buying' a body and cashing in via your own orgasm - runs contrary to all of those things.

Pug160 · 16-08-2013 10:23PM

It's not so much that sex is in short supply, it's the baggage that often comes with it, and the hassle it sometimes is to procure it. And when I say ''hassle'' I don't mean it is necessarily laziness on the part of the person who wants it. You also have to throw in the fact that a lot of people have standards and compatibility issues as well. But let's start with the baggage issues (by the way I'm playing Devil's Advocate here). There are often lots of baggage issues. Quite often someone will want more than just a casual relationship, especially if the sex is good. And they'll often finish the 'relationship' if those demands are not met. Or they'll continue because the sex is good but show obvious signs that they want more. Other times they will become involved with another person and get into a serious relationship, which means the end of the casual one. Other times they might have a lot of commitments and not be able to meet often.

The ''hassle'' comes from either going to bars and clubs and cold approaching (in most cases), which depending on how good you are at 'pulling', could take at least 4 or 5 outings (and that's a low estimate, especially if you have standards) or trawling through adult websites, not knowing whether the person is even real, or whether the person is married (quite likely). Both of those methods can be a lot of effort for potentially very little reward. Then there are the many possible pitfalls or compatibility issues even if you do manage to hook up with someone. Maybe she could be married and was lying to you, then comes clean. Maybe she ends up wanting something more serious. Maybe it's not enjoyable in any way. And yet it can be relatively hard to find someone in the first place. Other options include lowering standards, which rarely ends well and is never enjoyable for both parties. Another problem is that being honest about wanting NSA sex often stigmatises men. In my experience even women who have lots of casual sex don't usually plan on it happening the same way men do. It's more of an attitude of if it happens it happens.

Sometimes simple problems don't always have simple answers.

Pug160 · 16-08-2013 10:50PM

beks101 wrote: »

There is no confusion. In one simple transaction, he's getting laid.

Personally, there are just too many incompatibilities going on with that kind of mentality towards sex for me to be comfortable with that kind of guy.

For one, mutual satisfaction is the most important part of sex for me. I need to know that my partner wants me and wants to be there. I need to know, to be crude, that he's enjoying being inside me. He wants it as badly as I do. Without that, it's just mechanical; I may as well be doing 20 minutes on an elliptical machine for the amount of pleasure I'm going to derive from it.

I don't view people as being 'entitled' to it, or 'deprived' of it if they're going through a dry spell. I've gone through spells of no-sex that have lasted months, sometimes years...and my brain hasn't exploded. My body hasn't spontaneously combusted. .

A lot of women seem to have the same viewpoint. But I can see one major flaw with that way of thinking. You're assuming that a man who uses a prostitute has a one track mind, and that he always views sex as something mechanical and emotionless. But I don't see why that has to be the case for all men who have ever paid for sex. In doing so you're painting a man who pays for sex as utterly emotionless and sex driven - almost dehumanising them. Life is situational - just because we act a certain way in one situation doesn't mean we'll act the same way in another. Would a man who has just come out of a long term relationship and decides to pay for sex be regarded as someone who views sex as meaningless? The answer is it depends. It wasn't meaningless in the relationship, but it was when he paid for it. I suspect that a lot of women simply don't like the idea of a man paying for sex and they can't get round it mentally.

Some people can go without sex for long periods of time. It is possible that it's tougher for a man than it is for a woman - even if it is still quite tough for women as well. I think it's fair to say that women are generally more level headed when it comes to being celibate for a while. Generally speaking, the more healthy you are, the bigger your sex drive is - which in some cases can be a little bit cruel. I guess no one ever knows what another person goes through unless they're in their shoes, which is a cliche but is still true. I'm going to take a guess here and say that it is generally tougher for a man to go without, but perhaps only marginally. I think it may be more detrimental to men psychologically too. The truth is we don't know, but it seems as though women can cope better.

clairefontaine · 16-08-2013 10:58PM

It is hard to get your head around. I try to make maginitive leaps. That's not the hard part, I can imagine multiple scenarios. While I can find empathy with the man who does, but pity for the women who is obliged to service him because its her job. Actually I find pity for both of them, though I know that's too patronising.

I think it's difficult to perceive sex as having many possible qualities, sometimes mundane, sometimes transcendent. I don't think us women like to consider the possibility it's like going out for a meal.

Also it's possible to consider women are more socialised to police their appetites. Think diets, pregnancy risks, moral shaming, etc.

Pug160 · 16-08-2013 11:08PM

vitani wrote: »

If it was the other way round (and impotency is a common problem with men of a certain age) I wonder how many women would resort to the services of a gigolo. I'd guess not nearly as many.

I wonder is that down to natural biological urges, or societal - are men just brought up to believe that sex is an entitlement.

I think if there are entitlement issues, they come from both sexes equally. Perhaps not equal in terms of outlooks on sex but entitlement in general. A lot of women feel they are entitled to a relationship the same way a man may feel entitled to sex.

Every time I see or hear that word entitlement I just think it is used as a weapon to belittle men and comes from the same line of thinking that ''all men are bas****s. It's a lazy term used when discussing or debating issues and promotes tribalism of the sexes. I honestly think it should be binned along with other useless terms like ''rape culture''. Belittling an entire sex is not going to promote progress.

beks101 · 16-08-2013 11:45PM

Pug160 wrote: »

You're assuming that a man who uses a prostitute has a one track mind, and that he always views sex as something mechanical and emotionless. But I don't see why that has to be the case for all men who have ever paid for sex. In doing so you're painting a man who pays for sex as utterly emotionless and sex driven - almost dehumanising them. Life is situational - just because we act a certain way in one situation doesn't mean we'll act the same way in another.

True. And I'd add that the friend that I mentioned in my last post is a great guy, has been in long-term committed relationships, isn't some kind of "dawg with a one-track mind" who objectifies every woman who falls into his path, as goes the stereotype.

But he still paid for a quick, sure-fire shag from a woman he had no prior or further engagement with outside of the bedroom, because it was the easier, more convenient option. He'd tell you that himself. And that would be a prevailing reason for a lot of men.

It's a type of behaviour that I, as a woman, feel uncomfortable with. It runs contrary to the respect I have for my body, for my person, for the value I place on something that has never been just about cumming and getting on with your day.

And it doesn't mean that all men visit prostitutes for this reason either. I know there can be a vast array of reasons - there can be loneliness, desire for intimacy, social awkwardness, etc etc etc.

An interesting article here - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/15/why-men-use-prostitutes

- cites research that shows that "many men seemed to want a real relationship with a woman and were disappointed when this didn't develop".

Obviously, the reasons vary. There is no black and white.

But the act is the same. They all paid for sex. Which sort of renders all those things that make sex great to me - heavy build-up, mutual arousal, intimacy, mutual desire to please one another - null and void. And it's an act that I could never carry out myself. Call that conditioning, call that male V female sexuality - it's not something I could ever partake in.

Pug160 wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that women are generally more level headed when it comes to being celibate for a while.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Also it's possible to consider women are more socialised to police their appetites. Think diets, pregnancy risks, moral shaming, etc.

Maybe all these things have an influence. Maybe I've trained my brain to deal with celibacy when it arises. I don't know.

All I know is my experience of my own sexuality, and it's one that doesn't perceive the lack of sex as any big liability, disturbance, deprivation in my life. I'm young, healthy, fit, attractive, with a healthy sexual appetite, but often times I'd rather do without than compromise myself or someone else for the sake of an easy lay.

Keith300 · 17-08-2013 01:05AM

beks101 wrote: »

True. And I'd add that the friend that I mentioned in my last post is a great guy, has been in long-term committed relationships, isn't some kind of "dawg with a one-track mind" who objectifies every woman who falls into his path, as goes the stereotype.

But he still paid for a quick, sure-fire shag from a woman he had no prior or further engagement with outside of the bedroom, because it was the easier, more convenient option. He'd tell you that himself. And that would be a prevailing reason for a lot of men.

It's a type of behaviour that I, as a woman, feel uncomfortable with. It runs contrary to the respect I have for my body, for my person, for the value I place on something that has never been just about cumming and getting on with your day.

And it doesn't mean that all men visit prostitutes for this reason either. I know there can be a vast array of reasons - there can be loneliness, desire for intimacy, social awkwardness, etc etc etc.

An interesting article here - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/15/why-men-use-prostitutes

- cites research that shows that "many men seemed to want a real relationship with a woman and were disappointed when this didn't develop".

Obviously, the reasons vary. There is no black and white.

But the act is the same. They all paid for sex. Which sort of renders all those things that make sex great to me - heavy build-up, mutual arousal, intimacy, mutual desire to please one another - null and void. And it's an act that I could never carry out myself. Call that conditioning, call that male V female sexuality - it's not something I could ever partake in.

Maybe all these things have an influence. Maybe I've trained my brain to deal with celibacy when it arises. I don't know.

All I know is my experience of my own sexuality, and it's one that doesn't perceive the lack of sex as any big liability, disturbance, deprivation in my life. I'm young, healthy, fit, attractive, with a healthy sexual appetite, but often times I'd rather do without than compromise myself or someone else for the sake of an easy lay.

Maybe sometimes these men who visit pristitutes would prefer more. But maybe what they get for their money is enough to get them by.

Sometimes the body has desires which need to be fulfilled to release te tension and make the person feel good again.

At the end of the day people just want to feel good. Why do men use prostitutes? The same reason people eat, the same reason people sh1t, the same reason people p1ss, the same reason peopl dance, the same reason people converse, the same reason people sing.

TO FEEL GOOD.

April O Neill · 17-08-2013 03:06AM

beks101 wrote: »

For one, mutual satisfaction is the most important part of sex for me. I need to know that my partner wants me and wants to be there. I need to know, to be crude, that he's enjoying being inside me. He wants it as badly as I do. Without that, it's just mechanical; I may as well be doing 20 minutes on an elliptical machine for the amount of pleasure I'm going to derive from it.

This.

beks101 wrote: »

For another, I love sex. But I don't view sex as a 'need'. It's not like food or water; things that you physically can't survive without.

I don't view people as being 'entitled' to it, or 'deprived' of it if they're going through a dry spell. I've gone through spells of no-sex that have lasted months, sometimes years...and my brain hasn't exploded.

And this.

That's just me. If a girl is cool with her fella having visited a prostitute, that's cool with me.

Having said that:

beks101 wrote: »

I've been ridiculously horny too where sex wasn't immediately available - there are other things you can do, you know? There are endless ways to fulfill that urge without resorting to paying for it. So on that premise, a man visiting a prostitute to fulfill a 'need' is just a language I don't really speak.

My BF said nothing for a guy beats the feeling of being inside a woman. So, I'm not sure if we women understand from that POV.

Lyaiera · 17-08-2013 03:21AM

There's so much policing of what people do going on here. "I wouldn't feel comfortable..." "I don't see the need..." "I pity..." Get over yourself, other people do feel comfortable, other people do see the need, other people don't feel ashamed. Get over yourself.

April O Neill · 17-08-2013 03:27AM

beks101 wrote: »

An interesting article here - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/15/why-men-use-prostitutes

From the article:

But another of the interviewees left me feeling concerned. Darren was young, good-looking and bright; I asked him how often he thought the women he paid enjoyed the sex. "I don't want them to get any pleasure," he told me. "I am paying for it and it is her job to give me pleasure. If she enjoys it I would feel cheated." I asked if he felt prostitutes were different to other women. "The fact that they're prepared to do that job where others won't, even when they're skint, means there's some capability inside them that permits them to do it and not be disgusted," he said. He seemed full of a festering, potentially explosive misogyny.

Eep! :eek:

Hope this guy is in no way typical!

April O Neill · 17-08-2013 03:30AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

There's so much policing of what people do going on here. "I wouldn't feel comfortable..." "I don't see the need..." "I pity..." Get over yourself, other people do feel comfortable, other people do see the need, other people don't feel ashamed. Get over yourself.

OK, "I pity" ain't great, but how are these statements "policing": "I wouldn't feel comfortable..." "I don't see the need..."?

Would you like someone to tell you to "get over yourself" for expressing your opinion?

Czarcasm · 17-08-2013 07:10AM

Lyaiera wrote: »

There's so much policing of what people do going on here. "I wouldn't feel comfortable..." "I don't see the need..." "I pity..." Get over yourself, other people do feel comfortable, other people do see the need, other people don't feel ashamed. Get over yourself.

And who would you be now, the discussion police? This is a discussion forum, people are offering their opinions on a topic, that's how it works. There's only one person here needs to get over themselves, and it's definitely not me.

Legs.Eleven · 17-08-2013 09:16AM

Did you know 38% of Spanish men have slept with a prostitute and that's the 38% admitting to it?

Somethings not right there if you ask me. That seems like an insanely high percentage.

Czarcasm · 17-08-2013 10:25AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Did you know 38% of Spanish men have slept with a prostitute and that's the 38% admitting to it?

Somethings not right there if you ask me. That seems like an insanely high percentage.

It's not really all that surprising Legs if you take a number of other factors into account- attitudes in society toward sex work, collective society's acceptance but individual tolerance/intolerance, the Spanish economy (it's in the shìtter), the Spanish legal system (the what?)...

There's an interesting article on it here-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-the-world-capital-of-prostitution-2151581.html

Yet most people when they think of sex work acceptability in society, they immediately think of Amsterdam. As somebody else already mentioned, people in the Netherlands tolerate sex work, there's more to the Netherlands than just Amsterdam, and I've found (just my own opinion now), that for the majority of people in these countries- They're OK with the abstract concept of sex work, just not in their back yard and as long as they don't have to deal with it so to speak.

Legs.Eleven · 17-08-2013 03:25PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's not really all that surprising Legs if you take a number of other factors into account- attitudes in society toward sex work, collective society's acceptance but individual tolerance/intolerance, the Spanish economy (it's in the shìtter), the Spanish legal system (the what?)...

There's an interesting article on it here-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/spain-the-world-capital-of-prostitution-2151581.html

Yet most people when they think of sex work acceptability in society, they immediately think of Amsterdam. As somebody else already mentioned, people in the Netherlands tolerate sex work, there's more to the Netherlands than just Amsterdam, and I've found (just my own opinion now), that for the majority of people in these countries- They're OK with the abstract concept of sex work, just not in their back yard and as long as they don't have to deal with it so to speak.

No, I suppose you could say I'm more saddened and fairly disgusted by it than surprised. I walk to work through the centre every morning to get to work and walk past bored-looking prostitutes out selling themselves at 8.30 in the morning and very often you see punters approaching them - middle aged men who look like your average family man not unlike my own dad. It used to shock me when I got here first but now it just depresses me. They're all foreign (Eastern European, South American and African) on this street and I very much doubt their conditions are ideal. The average legal worker in Spain has ****ty conditions of employment, so I can't even imagine how bad it is for them. I used to teach English in the Red Cross who'd tell me about the sex trafficking into the country and the stories would almost make you puke - if you open a paper you know all about it but the men here choose to ignore it, which speaks volumes about them.

Besides from all that, if you're married or in a relationship, you're scum-of-the-earth for availing of the services of a prostitute in my eyes.

You can go on all you like about people who avail of services being disabled or "celibate but not by choice" but Spain paints a very different picture and contradicts that theory. I can't see how this is alright. It's deeply depressing.

Czarcasm · 17-08-2013 05:00PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You can go on all you like about people who avail of services being disabled or "celibate but not by choice" but Spain paints a very different picture and contradicts that theory. I can't see how this is alright. It's deeply depressing.

Totally agree with you Legs tbh, and it's not just Spain paints a very different picture. In online discussions where some people would prefer to restrict discussion to a nice, clean, academic "debate" that suits an ideology in support of sex work, they would prefer to deal in abstract concepts set scenarios rather than deal with reality (because people in wheelchairs are just lining up around the block to have sex with sex workers, right? As if they don't have better things to be doing!).

Legs.Eleven · 17-08-2013 05:17PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Totally agree with you Legs tbh, and it's not just Spain paints a very different picture. In online discussions where some people would prefer to restrict discussion to a nice, clean, academic "debate" that suits an ideology in support of sex work, they would prefer to deal in abstract concepts set scenarios rather than deal with reality (because people in wheelchairs are just lining up around the block to have sex with sex workers, right? As if they don't have better things to be doing!).

The fact that I now live in a country where it's VERY out in the open, unlike Ireland where it's all still very hush hush, gives you a taste of the reality of unregulated prostitution and it's very hard to condone.

clairefontaine · 17-08-2013 05:24PM

When I'm in France I see them all over the sides of the road, just waiting.

Quite a different picture from the glamor pusses dotting the seats of bars in four star hotels, also just waiting.

dotsman · 17-08-2013 05:45PM

panda100 wrote: »

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a response from 'belle Femme', I highly doubt he/she is really a working prostitute. These one off posts come up every now and again to try and make prostitution sound more desirable to women. One check on the Escort Ireland website, and there's a teeny tiny number of Irish nationals, under 50, working in this trade. The vast majority are from impoverished nations, as you have to be pretty desperate for money to work as a sex worker in Ireland.

I'm sorry, but I have to pull you up one point - the overwhelming majority are from Western Europe - Spain and Italy being the big noticeable two. Now both countries may have their financial difficulties (similar to Ireland), but to describe them as "impoverished" is a bit misleading to say the least.

Czarcasm · 17-08-2013 06:10PM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

The fact that I now live in a country where it's VERY out in the open, unlike Ireland where it's all still very hush hush, gives you a taste of the reality of unregulated prostitution and it's very hard to condone.

It's not actually as hush hush as a person might be given to believe Legs, and this wouldn't be me with colored vision talking so to speak (accusations that I'd be more attuned to noticing sex workers).

To give an example, if this is ok with the Moderators here (I understand boards policy about not talking about other forums or cross posting between forums but I hope this might be seen as exceptional circumstances), I made this post in another thread in After Hours on this issue-

Czarcasm wrote: »

Of course it is BR, I would hate to see sex work driven any more underground than it is already, but the Dutch government has a duty towards ALL it's citizens, not just those who want to engage in sex work.

It's the same problem we have over here- regulation won't do anything to protect sex workers. Even in the interview Yamato linked to, the guy who clearly knows his stuff says he has no one answer to the issues involved, but innovation is what's needed rather than more bad policies. He also says that you cannot compare one country to another, but I would contend that the one way you can compare them is that Government aren't exactly known for innovative policies.

In your example too though, that was just one example, I'm sure too you've seen plenty of examples of sex workers taking lumps out of each other in battles over territory? I know I have, I just have to look out my balcony to see a few long time street workers tearing lumps out of a new younger sex worker because they're afraid she'll take business from them.

This is in Ireland btw.

Regulation doesn't and won't solve anything with regard to sex work tbh, and even if the Irish government were to introduce regulated sex work (when pigs can fly!), they would then have to make sure all these apartments and basement flats premises comply with accessibility legislation for all those wheelchair users that'll be queing up to get some action.

The logistics once you get past the legislation to regulate sex work are mind boggling, not to mention that most sex workers don't want regulation because then they'll have to operate legitimately.

Only a meagre handful of sex workers have the ability, the knowledge, and the means, to operate legitimately so that they can operate independently of brothel keepers, which most sex workers would also prefer to do, as the brothel keepers have differing conditions of employment that aren't stacked in favor of the sex worker.

Legs.Eleven · 17-08-2013 06:31PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's not actually as hush hush as a person might be given to believe Legs, and this wouldn't be me with colored vision talking so to speak (accusations that I'd be more attuned to noticing sex workers).

To give an example, if this is ok with the Moderators here (I understand boards policy about not talking about other forums or cross posting between forums but I hope this might be seen as exceptional circumstances), I made this post in another thread in After Hours on this issue-

Regulation doesn't and won't solve anything with regard to sex work tbh, and even if the Irish government were to introduce regulated sex work (when pigs can fly!), they would then have to make sure all these apartments and basement flats premises comply with accessibility legislation for all those wheelchair users that'll be queing up to get some action.

The logistics once you get past the legislation to regulate sex work are mind boggling, not to mention that most sex workers don't want regulation because then they'll have to operate legitimately.

Only a meagre handful of sex workers have the ability, the knowledge, and the means, to operate legitimately so that they can operate independently of brothel keepers, which most sex workers would also prefer to do, as the brothel keepers have differing conditions of employment that aren't stacked in favor of the sex worker.

Prostitution will always exist though, Czarcasm, so something has to be done. I can pontificate all I like but it'll always exist, so, as you said, our governments have to think outside the box for a change but yep, pigs will fly so I'll have to continue walking by depressed-looking prostitutes hanging around the centre of Madrid on my way to work everyday. Belle Du Jour me arse tbh.

Czarcasm · 17-08-2013 11:23PM

dotsman wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I have to pull you up one point - the overwhelming majority are from Western Europe - Spain and Italy being the big noticeable two. Now both countries may have their financial difficulties (similar to Ireland), but to describe them as "impoverished" is a bit misleading to say the least.

I honestly fail to see your point beyond semantics tbh, what does it matter where they're from? The fact is they're here because they saw no future for themselves in their own countries.

I was talking to a friend of mine from Portugal (via skype) last week and she wasn't telling me anything I didn't know already- Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, whether you want to call their respective countries impoverished, in recession, in the shìtter, it doesn't matter.

My friend is in her 20's and was working for HSBC before they upped sticks and moved operations to the UK. My friend didn't want to go as it meant leaving her family in Portugal. She decided to go back into sex work. The girl hasn't a pot to piss in, the few friends she had in work have moved to the UK, and she is miserable. She detests the fact that she cannot talk to her family or the few friends she has left about what she does to make ends meet and keep a roof over her head and help her family. She has them told she's working from home still working for HSBC.

That's only one example. These are human beings we're talking about here, not just "services" like those provided by a plumber. At least a plumber can sleep easy at night. A sex worker- not so much.

Legs.Eleven · 17-08-2013 11:33PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I honestly fail to see your point beyond semantics tbh, what does it matter where they're from? The fact is they're here because they saw no future for themselves in their own countries.

I was talking to a friend of mine from Portugal (via skype) last week and she wasn't telling me anything I didn't know already- Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, whether you want to call their respective countries impoverished, in recession, in the shìtter, it doesn't matter.

My friend is in her 20's and was working for HSBC before they upped sticks and moved operations to the UK. My friend didn't want to go as it meant leaving her family in Portugal. She decided to go back into sex work. The girl hasn't a pot to piss in, the few friends she had in work have moved to the UK, and she is miserable. She detests the fact that she cannot talk to her family or the few friends she has left about what she does to make ends meet and keep a roof over her head and help her family. She has them told she's working from home still working for HSBC.

That's only one example. These are human beings we're talking about here, not just "services" like those provided by a plumber. At least a plumber can sleep easy at night. A sex worker- not so much.

"To say the least" my absolute hole. You have no idea.

Speaking on behalf of Spain as I live here, it's not Sudan but poverty is common place. You can claim dole for up to 2 years max (the longer you work, the longer you get dole but 2 years is the absolute maximum anyone can claim), **** wages to begin with, unemployment reaching 30%. Portugal, where I was a few week ago, even worse. No, there's no famine and bulging bellies from starvation in Spain but millions of people are desperate. See the article on the boom of the prostitution industry here to get an idea. I don't know the origin of the sex workers in Ireland but if you say they're mainly Spanish and Italian, well that makes perfect sense. Things are **** for the citizens of this country right now - Ireland is nowhere near as bad.

Ladies your opinions on men using brothels and prostitutes

Comments