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Godless students

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    #2
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Not terribly surprised, the most godless fun I've ever had has been in college. Was invited to an orgy at my last graduation. Pity my back was f*cked at the time. Ah well.


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    #3
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    kuro_man wrote: »
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/students-rate-looking-good-as-more-important-than-religion-603483.html

    some interesting data...

    Also...



    ..with a capital A, I wonder did Mr. Nugent lobby for this.
    "The survey found that 2.2% of students are Church of Ireland/Protestant, compared to 2011 census figures of 2.81% in the general population.

    Of the Catholic students surveyed, 61.5% said ‘Yes’ when asked if they take communion"


    What's your point?


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    #4
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Sarky wrote: »
    Not terribly surprised, the most godless fun I've ever had has been in college. Was invited to an orgy at my last graduation. Pity my back was f*cked at the time. Ah well.

    I'm going into TY in a few days and pretty much everyone bar a few are all atheists in my class. Most students have the idea that they're are just some people who can't handle (too stupid) the fact that there's no God. To each their own I think.


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    #5
    HurtLocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭HurtLocker


    These people who claim to be Catholic :confused: 57% yet 83% of people want abortion in Ireland. After all the religion thats shoved down out throats a huge chunk of proclaimed "Catholics" have no idea what saying "I am a Catholic" actually means.


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    #6
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Irish Examiner wrote:
    Looking good is more important than religion to Irish college students, according to a recent survey.
    In other breaking news, the earth revolves around the sun...

    The fact that people insist on using the grossly unrepresentative census results in such comparisons brings out the rage in me.


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    #7
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I think that those figures nicely demonstrate the effect of the Mammy on the census; when they're away from home the number of Catholics drops dramatically.


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    #8
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    kylith wrote: »
    I think that those figures nicely demonstrate the effect of the Mammy on the census; when they're away from home the number of Catholics drops dramatically.

    I think my mother would have preferred me to look respectable(good) in college over being Catholic and she is a Catholic. The priorities of an Irish mammy are complex.


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    #9
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,382 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Of the Catholic students surveyed, 61.5% said ‘Yes’ when asked if they take communion, only 32.2% believe that it is the body and blood of Christ.

    :rolleyes:


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    #10
    Morbert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,457 ✭✭✭Morbert


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    What's your point?

    Atheist, like theist, is not a proper noun. Giving it a capital letter implies atheism is some movement or subversive organisation when it is really just what students are naturally gravitating towards.


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    #11
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I think my mother would have preferred me to look respectable(good) in college over being Catholic and she is a Catholic. The priorities of an Irish mammy are complex.

    I mean Mammys filling in the census on behalf of their children and putting them down as Catholic regardless of the young person actual stance on religion.

    Last census we had reports on here of parents changing what their children had put down, putting them down as RCC even though their child had told them not to, that kind of thing.


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    #12
    kuro_man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭kuro_man


    What's your point?
    Morbert wrote: »
    Atheist, like theist, is not a proper noun. Giving it a capital letter implies atheism is some movement or subversive organisation when it is really just what students are naturally gravitating towards.

    yep, what he said!


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    #13
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    1 in 5 seems very low to me :confused: Would have expected a much high percentage than that to be honest


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    #14
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I think the biggest most concerning thing here is.....3% believe in Jedi!!!
    :D

    http://www.thejournal.ie/students-religion-ireland-1035328-Aug2013/


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    #15
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Dave! wrote: »
    1 in 5 seems very low to me :confused: Would have expected a much high percentage than that to be honest

    It is higher. People just don't like the A-Word. Thanks, largely, to religious demonisation of that word. People think that "atheist" means that you claim to know there is no God with 100% surety, which would be ridiculous, but it is the strawman for which most people have fallen. I've had this conversation a few times:

    Them: I'm not an atheist, really.
    Me: Do you believe in God?
    Them: No, I believe there is an energy/goodness/purpose to life.
    Me: Well, then you're an atheist.
    Them: What?! No I'm not!

    Or this one

    Them: Are you religious?
    Me: No, I am an atheist.
    Them: Wow! I don't agree with that, you can't know 100% there is no God.
    Me: I don't claim to know there is no God. I accept there is a possibility of a God but I find it very unlikely and don't believe there is a God.
    Them: But that's an agnostic.
    Me: No that's....actually I'm going to get a drink.

    Basically most people are completely incapable of grasping the meaning of terms they insist on using—frequently in an emotive and confrontational manner.

    What I would really like is a survey that asked people for a yes/no/not sure response to a number of specific claims, like God's existence, the afterlife, miracles, the validity of the Pope, etc, and then used those responses to define what their label is. I suspect the number of atheists would double. And all those now accurately labelled people would throw hysterics that they have been classed as such.


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    #16
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I think my mother would have preferred me to look respectable(good) in college over being Catholic and she is a Catholic. The priorities of an Irish mammy are complex.

    I've lived away from home since 1999, I'm fully employed and self-sufficient, and my mother still gets more concerned over what I'm wearing than any spiritual wellbeing.


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    #17
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Dave! wrote: »
    1 in 5 seems very low to me :confused: Would have expected a much high percentage than that to be honest
    I suspect there are many more.

    But, like a young buck I once knew, they're just too busy skipping lectures, drinking and engaging in mating rituals to have thought about it enough to define it.


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    #18
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    HurtLocker wrote: »
    These people who claim to be Catholic :confused: 57% yet 83% of people want abortion in Ireland. After all the religion thats shoved down out throats a huge chunk of proclaimed "Catholics" have no idea what saying "I am a Catholic" actually means.

    Never mind their opinion on abortion, their opinion on the existence of god says more about their understanding of what saying "I am a Catholic" actually means.
    article wrote:
    When asked how they would characterise their belief in God, only 37.5% state that they believe in God


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    #19
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Morbert wrote: »
    Atheist, like theist, is not a proper noun. Giving it a capital letter implies atheism is some movement or subversive organisation when it is really just what students are naturally gravitating towards.

    I think its colloquial meaning has changed a lot to the point where most people use it as a noun. But you are of course correct.

    The religious denominations mentioned above aren't being used as nouns either.


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    #20
    Corkfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    kylith wrote: »
    I mean Mammys filling in the census on behalf of their children and putting them down as Catholic regardless of the young person actual stance on religion.

    Last census we had reports on here of parents changing what their children had put down, putting them down as RCC even though their child had told them not to, that kind of thing.
    I was told to stay in a different house the day the census was filled out. So I had to be included in someone else's census instead. :D


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    #21
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Dave! wrote: »
    1 in 5 seems very low to me :confused: Would have expected a much high percentage than that to be honest
    It's functionally much higher than that, the meaning of atheism being a matter for debate.
    When asked how they would characterise their belief in God, only 37.5% state that they believe in God with the top response at 41.5% being that students are unsure if there is a God
    So chances are, they have 3 answers here:
    I believe: 37.5%
    I don't believe: 21%
    I don't know: 41.5%

    In reality, that 41.5% can be divided into theist and atheist, but the poll is strictly taking the "I don't believe"s as atheist.

    One of the interesting stats which I don't recall having seen asked before - "Why do you follow a religion":
    Only 13.7% follow a religion due to a strong faith.
    Which basically means that 86.3% of religious people polled follow a religion for reason other than faith. Though to be fair, one of the answers may be, "I have some faith".

    I'd love to see the actual breakdown of this, why don't they publish these things :-/


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    #22
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I was told to stay in a different house the day the census was filled out.
    First thing that sprung to mind:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYWlb2A55c


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    #23
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Sarky wrote: »
    I've lived away from home since 1999, I'm fully employed and self-sufficient, and my mother still gets more concerned over what I'm wearing than any spiritual wellbeing.

    Tell me about it - I left home in 1983....


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    #24
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Everybody is agnostic. There is not a person who has lived or who is currently living who knows with 100% certainty whether the is definitely a god. Religious people HOPE there is a god, but that is all it is, hope. They have no special knowledge of the definite existence of a diety that the rest of us are not privy to. Hope and belief are entirely different from factual knowledge.


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    #25
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    In before some religious poster shows us the completely different definition of 'hope' that they work off as if that proves something.


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    #26
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Everybody is agnostic. There is not a person who has lived or who is currently living who knows with 100% certainty whether the is definitely a god. Religious people HOPE there is a god, but that is all it is, hope. They have no special knowledge of the definite existence of a diety that the rest of us are not privy to. Hope and belief are entirely different from factual knowledge.

    That raises an interesting conundrum. Does gnosticism refer to one's stated position or one's objective position? Some people will claim to know there is a God, they are taking a gnostic position in relation to God...can we say that they are not gnostic because we maintain they do not, in fact, have such knowledge?


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    #27
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Zillah wrote: »
    That raises an interesting conundrum. Does gnosticism refer to one's stated position or one's objective position? Some people will claim to know there is a God, they are taking a gnostic position in relation to God...can we say that they are not gnostic because we maintain they do not, in fact, have such knowledge?

    Spiritual beliefs are all subjective. No matter how firmly one believes the existence of a deity to be truth, it is not an objective truth, like the existence of water or the sofa I am sat on. To believe what cannot be proven is a subjective position. Gnosticism refers to the "knowledge of spiritual truth". A phrase which is oxymoronic in itself. There is no objective spiritual truth that has been proven to exist. Therefore I think it can be said that a gnostic person does not have that knowledge. Anyone can hold a belief that they consider to be truth, but knowledge must be justifiable.


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    #28
    mickrock
    Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Hope and belief are entirely different from factual knowledge.

    What factual knowledge do atheists have about, for example, how life could have originated by accident from inorganic matter and how DNA could have come about?

    None, just hope and belief that one day it'll all be figured out. They have faith in the fairy tale that chance and physical laws will be adequate explanations.


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    #29
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Christ, are you still flogging that dead horse mickrock? Did you ever read up on evolution or abiogenesis like I'd recommended? It really would help you stop with this nonsense.


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    #30
    SmilingLurker
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭SmilingLurker


    mickrock wrote: »
    What factual knowledge do atheists have about, for example, how life could have originated by accident from inorganic matter and how DNA could have come about?

    None, just hope and belief that one day it'll all be figured out. They have faith in the fairy tale that chance and physical laws will be adequate explanations.

    Scientists have many hypotheses, none of which meet criteria to be accepted. In summary, scientists do not know yet. No fairy tale. No faith. Not enough evidence.

    Given a choice of magic man in the sky or inorganic matter forming life over a very large period of time under some currently unknown circumstances, I choose the latter as more likely given the balance of probabilities.

    Not knowing answers is not a weakness.


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    #31
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    mickrock wrote: »
    What factual knowledge do atheists have about, for example, how life could have originated by accident from inorganic matter and how DNA could have come about?

    None, just hope and belief that one day it'll all be figured out. They have faith in the fairy tale that chance and physical laws will be adequate explanations.

    So, science has yet to perfect a time machine to go back and see exactly how life originated on earth, therefore 'magic' is a viable alternative?


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