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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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Comments

  • #9812
    Deskjockey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 928 ✭✭✭Deskjockey


    Waay out of order.


  • #9813
    smashey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Sam Swarek wrote: »
    Not the first yellow card Ive ever received! Can I get it rescinded on appeal like Henry Shefflin?
    The way you are going here, that is most unlikely. In fact, the opposite is quite probable.


  • #9814
    Sam Swarek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭Sam Swarek


    alllcounty wrote: »
    Shut up you idiot. I'm still seeting with rage the way the 18 players have treated the manager. He gave so much to the betterment of waterford hurling these past 2 years and during that time I really felt energised we were back heading in the right direction for ultimate honours. 12 players on that panel shared my view, that's 40% didn't want him to go. You would normally find fringe players on any panel would not be happy with management as they are not getting enough game time. That means of the starting team there proberly was a majority that wanted him to stay. Many of those hurlers played their best hurling under Ryan. This was Nagel's best year in a waterford shirt, Brick had returned to his best, Moran won his first all star last year and gave an exhibition against kilkenny, Lawler and darragh fives played their best games ever against kilkenny, dillion showed great work ethic all year and chipped in with some good scores in the championship in his debut season. The list goes on further. From what I've gathered the reason they wanted him out is some didn't like his west waterford accent and that he delegated too much responsibility. He is the manager, not the coach, they are seperate roles with seperate responsibilities. One trains the team in training sessions and the other glues the whole thing together between selectors, players, media, county board, team talks, etc. He sourounded himself with hurling men and did what was asked of him. The performances were there. In the last 5 years other counties like limerick, clare, cork dublin and galway have come out of periods of unrest and panels that were way behind in the modern game. It was easy for waterford to be number 3 during this time. Any time we played kilkenny during this time it never at once looked like we would beat them. They often played us in 3rd gear and won by 7 points or more. This year was the first time since 98 before cody came in, that it looked like we could beat kilkenny. I really felt we were finally heading in the right direction. Now these 18 cowards have destroyed all that. They have put themselves under huge pressure for the next 3 years to get results. If they fail, this mess they have put us in will be thrown back at them. We had a good thing going here, excellent fitness trainers, a good defence coach in Cullinane who was our best full back of all time, a good trainer in Cunningham from limerick and a decent man with no ego to glue it all together. I dont think i can ever forgive those 18 backstabbing cowards for what they've done if they have ended up destroying the improvements we were making under this present management.

    Out of order! I have a feeling you'll be going into the referee's notebook for that post!!


  • #9815
    Sam Swarek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭Sam Swarek


    smashey wrote: »
    The way you are going here, that is most unlikely. In fact, the opposite is quite probable.

    people would want to lighten up and not take things so seriously!!


  • #9816
    seananigans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭seananigans


    http://examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/former-deise-chief-blasts-players-role-in-ryan-exit-239782.html


    the players really need to make a statement


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  • #9817
    rebel girl 15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,247 ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    allcounty infracted for personal abuse, you can't be going around calling people idiots, especially after an on thread warning to stop things getting personal

    My patience is wearing very thin with a number of posters on here - respond to the post, but without trying to wind people up, some people taking this thread as their personal playground and its not going to be tolerated. Final warning - next time mods will be straight banning


  • #9818
    smashey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Sam Swarek wrote: »
    people would want to lighten up and not take things so seriously!!
    And people would want to stop taking cheap shots


  • #9819
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Sam Swarek wrote: »
    people would want to lighten up and not take things so seriously!!

    You'd want to follow the forum rules or else you will get banned pretty quickly

    Take a read at the following link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056682165


  • #9820
    Sam Swarek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 99 ✭✭Sam Swarek


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    You'd want to follow the forum rules or else you will get banned pretty quickly

    Take a read at the following link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056682165

    Yeah alright whatever


  • #9821
    doz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭doz


    seananigans wrote: »
    http://examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/former-deise-chief-blasts-players-role-in-ryan-exit-239782.html


    the players really need to make a statement

    Couldn't agree more. I think it's imperative that they do so before Michael Ryan goes on rte tomorrow night. Say what you will about the Cork and Limerick player's actions but from memory at least the players made a statement at the time. The silence in Waterford is deafening and this saga is becoming more damaging with each passing day, with potential rifts and bad will abounding everywhere. The players need to clarify why they took the action they did.


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  • #9822
    cornerboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭cornerboy


    http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html


  • #9823
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    doz wrote: »
    Couldn't agree more. I think it's imperative that they do so before Michael Ryan goes on rte tomorrow night. Say what you will about the Cork and Limerick player's actions but from memory at least the players made a statement at the time. The silence in Waterford is deafening and this saga is becoming more damaging with each passing day, with potential rifts and bad will abounding everywhere. The players need to clarify why they took the action they did.

    How do you make a statement from all the players, when you don't speak for everybody?

    If only 11 showed up, how many of the ones that were rung actually knew the full extent of what was goin g on in the meeting? Those that wwould have been against the vote would probably not be happy that there voiuce was not heard during the meeting.

    How would they feel now, if a collective statement with their names pinned to it was released now given they don't share the same views?


  • #9824
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    cornerboy wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html

    Desperately unfair. I wonder was he so scathing of Cork and Limerick? I think that lack of respect afforded to Ryan and the minor hurlers on Sunday was terrible. Player power, however, is not an idea that had it's inception in Waterford.


  • #9825
    doz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭doz


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    How do you make a statement from all the players, when you don't speak for everybody?

    If only 11 showed up, how many of the ones that were rung actually knew the full extent of what was goin g on in the meeting? Those that wwould have been against the vote would probably not be happy that there voiuce was not heard during the meeting.

    How would they feel now, if a collective statement with their names pinned to it was released now given they don't share the same views?

    Fair points but these were the sort of issues that should have been considered before they went ahead with it. It was not rocket science to consider that all the players might not necessarily be in agreement. To me this again underlines that this was an ill thought out course of action. Rightly or wrongly, the players have now left themselves open to serious criticism which will likely continue until some clarification is obtained.


  • #9826
    seananigans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭seananigans


    cornerboy wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html

    Brilliant article

    IN these difficult days for hotels, establishments in Waterford might profitably promote their premises as suitable locations for meetings of rebellious hurlers plotting an insurrection against the county manager.


  • #9827
    cornerboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭cornerboy


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    Desperately unfair. I wonder was he so scathing of Cork and Limerick? I think that lack of respect afforded to Ryan and the minor hurlers on Sunday was terrible. Player power, however, is not an idea that had it's inception in Waterford.

    He kind of describes it as it would appear to most who are looking in from outside. Players problem is that they don't have credibility........they haven't been good enough to win an All Ireland and instead of questioning themselves have undermined successive managers. You can argue against that summary but that is how it will appear to most.


  • #9828
    Ropaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    cornerboy wrote: »
    He kind of describes it as it would appear to most who are looking in from outside. Players problem is that they don't have credibility........they haven't been good enough to win an All Ireland and instead of questioning themselves have undermined successive managers. You can argue against that summary but that is how it will appear to most.
    Alot of people on this thread have said the same thing. How many people praised Ryan after the Kilkenny game and said we played as well as we could in it?


  • #9829
    robopaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭robopaddy


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    How do you make a statement from all the players, when you don't speak for everybody?

    If only 11 showed up, how many of the ones that were rung actually knew the full extent of what was goin g on in the meeting? Those that wwould have been against the vote would probably not be happy that there voiuce was not heard during the meeting.

    How would they feel now, if a collective statement with their names pinned to it was released now given they don't share the same views?

    This is the big thing now from the players point of view I would say. I wonder how much communication there actually is between them at the moment. It looks to me that they are lacking leadership and direction in all of this and the whole thing is pretty unorganised. Unless they are all going to appear together as a show of unity for a press conference like Cork did a few years ago the time of the strikes.

    But if the vote was as divisive as were led to believe I cant see this happening

    What a shambles


  • #9830
    hardybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    There will be blame on all sides here. At the end of every season, particularly when a manager has completed his time in charge and may be considering applying for an extension, a review process should kick in. Fix it for September or October every year.

    When a manager is appointed, like anyone in any job, they should be asked to agree a series of goals and objectives with the Board. Performance can be tracked against these goals in the review process. It's fair and transparent. If events have taken place outside of the managers control which have impacted the achievement of said goals, these can be discussed and taken into consideration in the review.

    Part of the issue with the squad voting system is that the squad is fluid. Players will come and go, normally by the decision of the manager. 6 or 7 of this years squad who may have voted against Ryan might be culled next year. To get around this, the team captain should survey the opinions of the players, and provide feedback as part of the review process. Unless there are serious concerns with the manager's performance, you shouldn't see a repeat of that farce of a vote taking place as the same day as the minors big day.

    So, as a result of the laissez faire, sloppy and unstructured approach to the appointment of managers by the Board, incidents like this are allowed to occur. The players should be provided with a platform to provide their opinions and feedback, but not this sort of messing.


  • #9831
    seananigans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭seananigans


    Isn't it a given that 15 of the 30 are likely to be dissatisfied due to lack fo gametime?

    seems a bit harsh when the swing of the vote was 3 individuals.

    not knowing the breakdown but it's possible 12 of the 15 starters could have voted on him staying .


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  • #9832
    premierstone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    Desperately unfair. I wonder was he so scathing of Cork and Limerick? I think that lack of respect afforded to Ryan and the minor hurlers on Sunday was terrible. Player power, however, is not an idea that had it's inception in Waterford.

    Not a big fan of Breheney and he's a bit of a sensationalist at the best of times and he's actual knowledge of the game of hurling leaves alot to be desired, but when you get past he's window dressing and he's attempted humor he actually is pretty close to the money on this one.

    I mean who exactly do these Waterford players think they are? I'm not trying to be harsh here but they are so far out of line its not funny and they have zero achievements to actually back it up.

    They have put the Waterford county board in an awfull position aswell - the simple fact is that the money is not there to attract a big name from outside and there doesn't seem to be a big name within that will satisfy them, the board are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here and it needs to be resolved fairly promptly as you are going to have the likes of Gleeson, Bennett, Curran and Foran coming in over the next 24 months and the last thing they need at that age is coming into a divided panel who are also at loggerheads with the County Board.


  • #9833
    robopaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭robopaddy


    premierstone wrote: »
    Not a big fan of Breheney and he's a bit of a sensationalist at the best of times and he's actual knowledge of the game of hurling leaves alot to be desired, but when you get past he's window dressing and he's attempted humor he actually is pretty close to the money on this one.

    I mean who exactly do these Waterford players think they are? I'm not trying to be harsh here but they are so far out of line its not funny and they have zero achievements to actually back it up.

    They have put the Waterford county board in an awfull position aswell - the simple fact is that the money is not there to attract a big name from outside and there doesn't seem to be a big name within that will satisfy them, the board are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here and it needs to be resolved fairly promptly as you are going to have the likes of Gleeson, Bennett, Curran and Foran coming in over the next 24 months and the last thing they need at that age is coming into a divided panel who are also at loggerheads with the County Board.

    This is what has come as a shock to everyone. It is widely accepted that there are no apparant ego's or prima donna's in this group. All that dead wood has been moved on under Ryan. A lot of the panel are very young many still under 21 or just out of it and hard to imagine it was many of them instigating this. Most of the older players would be known as being fairly honest and grounded individuals, as youd have in every other county so it really is hard to fathom where all this has come from.

    The only conclusion you can draw is that it must have been a pretty desperate situation, a lot different to the view that would have been gathered from outside the camp looking in


  • #9834
    premierstone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,706 ✭✭✭premierstone


    robopaddy wrote: »
    This is what has come as a shock to everyone. It is widely accepted that there are no apparant ego's or prima donna's in this group. All that dead wood has been moved on under Ryan. A lot of the panel are very young many still under 21 or just out of it and hard to imagine it was many of them instigating this. Most of the older players would be known as being fairly honest and grounded individuals, as youd have in every other county so it really is hard to fathom where all this has come from

    Yeah agree with all that, It really would be intruiging to see a list of the players who voted in favoutr of removing Ryan and who exactly was behind calling the meeting.


  • #9835
    doz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭doz


    premierstone wrote: »
    Yeah agree with all that, It really would be intruiging to see a list of the players who voted in favoutr of removing Ryan and who exactly was behind calling the meeting.

    Sorry to bring this issue up again as I know it is detested here but I have no doubt that the East-West divide would be strongly illustrated if we ever got a list of how players voted. I know a couple of players from the West (not Fourmilewater men) personally who would have always been behind Ryan in the past. I think you can also assume that players from his own club would have strongly supported him.


  • #9836
    Brad1234
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭Brad1234


    Can anyone tell me why it was released at half time on Sunday and why it was ordered to do so.. Could they have not kept council till after the minor final at least.

    For a management team with 'no ego' seems very egotistical to me? Ive heard the ah it would leak but i think a lot of us knew there would be a challenge for his job coming as i was informed the week after the KK game ..

    County Boards nose out of joint also so happy enough to create chaos.. Players getting all the bashing here but the speed in which it came out was ridiculous..

    Also on Breheny article.. If he is going to do an article on a national newspaper at least get the actual facts and dont take sound bites off fellas who are going around like chinese whisper... His stance against waterford is not surprising as he is articles are so 'old school' i wouldnt even wipe my arse with it..


  • #9837
    cornerboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭cornerboy


    robopaddy wrote: »
    This is what has come as a shock to everyone. It is widely accepted that there are no apparant ego's or prima donna's in this group. All that dead wood has been moved on under Ryan. A lot of the panel are very young many still under 21 or just out of it and hard to imagine it was many of them instigating this. Most of the older players would be known as being fairly honest and grounded individuals, as youd have in every other county so it really is hard to fathom where all this has come from.

    The only conclusion you can draw is that it must have been a pretty desperate situation, a lot different to the view that would have been gathered from outside the camp looking in

    I'm reliably told the split was nearly East / West. All western players except one notable and one other voted with Ryan.


  • #9838
    Deise_2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Deise_2012


    I've heard off a few people that Brick and Molumphy along with Mullane on the outside were the ones who orchestrated the players meeting and as a result, Kevin Moran phoned Michael Ryan to let them know of their decision. I don't think Ryan will give much away on thursday, not in his character to let rip at certain individuals


  • #9839
    doz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 248 ✭✭doz


    Deise_2012 wrote: »
    I've heard off a few people that Brick and Molumphy along with Mullane on the outside were the ones who orchestrated the players meeting and as a result, Kevin Moran phoned Michael Ryan to let them know of their decision. I don't think Ryan will give much away on thursday, not in his character to let rip at certain individuals

    With respect I'm not sure it's in order for anyone to be posting rumours naming individual players unless we get something confirmed. I have heard a number of other versions of events that do not implicate any of those players so maybe we should just wait and see if we get a full story.


  • #9840
    robopaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭robopaddy


    Deise_2012 wrote: »
    I've heard off a few people that Brick and Molumphy along with Mullane on the outside were the ones who orchestrated the players meeting and as a result, Kevin Moran phoned Michael Ryan to let them know of their decision. I don't think Ryan will give much away on thursday, not in his character to let rip at certain individuals

    Mullane says publicly he had nothing to do with and thats good enough for me. Brick and Molumphy both very loyal guys aswell would be surprised if that was true


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  • #9841
    Deise_2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭Deise_2012


    I'm not saying it's true either, I was very surprised to hear the people named were supposedly involved. Mullane said publicly that he won't return but I really think should they get Derek Mcgrath that he'l be back playing next year


This discussion has been closed.
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