Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Totally Tropical · 13-08-2013 04:40PM

parish girl wrote: »

Am wondering about the whole Mullane thing. He wasn't the only fellow to make himself unavailable. Shane Sullivan, Philip Mahony, the sullivans and Stevie Molomphy were also unavailable at various times. Take Molumphy for example I know he was going away but he didn't go till April and was back recently for Ballyduff so he could have played a part but for some reason didn't. To be honest it was unheard of in times past for so many to be not available. One theory would be lack of confidence in management!!

Well maybe if they didn't run away because they got the hump with the manager then Waterford might have beaten Kilkenny last month.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 04:40PM

Ropaire wrote: »

Go on then, enlighten us.

look back through my previous posts, ive cover the reasons about all 3 already!

Ropaire · 13-08-2013 04:41PM

Sam Swarek wrote: »

look back through my previous posts, ive cover the reasons about all 3 already!

I'm lazy, and there's alot of crap in those posts. Summarise it for me please.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 04:43PM

doz wrote: »

You may occasionally make a reasonable point or two but when asked for specifics you generally don't respond. I asked who you would have appointed in Ryan's place, no response and you were asked how you were able to dismiss one poster's suggestions about a list of potential replacements, also no response.

Is it really necessary to be acting all high, mighty and all knowing in responding to regular posters comments or suggestions? It's keyboard warrioring at its worst and frankly a bit pathetic. This is a discussion forum, no rights or wrongs, so just grow up a bit.

Don't be so lazy and look back through my previous posts, I have given suggestions and alternatives god knows how many times. You might grow up a bit and do some research before you post any personal attacks!

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 04:45PM

robopaddy wrote: »

no point doz you wont win. he has shown before he is just not up to partaking in civilised discussions its a wee bit beyond him im afraid.

Unfortunately insecurity takes over and he will just end up arguing with everyone else about how he is so much smarter and intelligent than us all. The topic of conversation eventually becomes irrelevant

I think Ive proven previously paddy that I am smarter than you about hurling, I'll dig up the posts and embarrass you again if you really want me to??

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 04:46PM

Brad1234 wrote: »

This all starting to get very childish quick.. Sam albeit does it in a confrontational tone, makes some great points on waterford hurling and is talking like the majority of hurling folk in the county.. There is an acceptance from speaking to intercounty players, clubmates players from other clubs (bar far west) that ryan albeit an honourable man and did an adequate job but was out of his depth when it came down to the elite level..

Training only really picked up (after witnessing it myself) when Ger Cunningham came in and started to do some touch work.. but he came in mid way through the league which is a real scattergun approach the biggest team we have in waterford in any sport..

Derek McGrath is there for him if he wants it purely cause its easy and its on the county boards lap.. If we are going for an insider we'll id possibly take a chance with him but the financial constraints cant be that bad that we cant aim higher than that..

Keep the physical team with a proper manager who has more input that bawling and roaring and who doesnt delegate absolutely everything.. Hard to fine but money talks..

Players could have handled it better thats a given but there you need your moran's as team leader to let the people know.. Cant see it happening..

another man who knows what he is talking about, thanks brad

Ropaire · 13-08-2013 04:47PM

Sam Swarek wrote: »

Don't be so lazy and look back through my previous posts, I have given suggestions and alternatives god knows how many times. You might grow up a bit and do some research before you post any personal attacks!

Indulge me this one time, next time i'll go check.

deisedub · 13-08-2013 04:47PM

Four weeks to our first minor all ireland final since 1992 and the lads have alot of work to do but with club fixtures for the next 2 weeks that only leaves them approximately 4/5 sessions to get things right and 1 of those nights will be for media/fans etc now I feel they should be aloud and supported in every possible way to train together for the next 3 weeks after this round of club matches.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 04:48PM

robopaddy wrote: »

lord above... read as far as that and didnt need to read any further.

think Im actually done here... dont stop beleiveing peeps!!!

truth hurts paddy, id say your head is exploding with the common sense being spoken!!

Brad1234 · 13-08-2013 04:48PM

WumBuster wrote: »

I agree. Its not always about winning. In Cork, KK, Tipp it may be but in Waterford its about playing the game the right way, being competitive with the rest and bringing on younger players. Scully was doing all those things right. Like the minors, if we win an AI great but if we don't its great to be there anyway. If a Cork, Tipp or KK team lose an AI final they are regarded as failures in their own county and are quickly forgotten about. Is that what we want to become?

Yes that's what we should become instead of all on the crutch of 'playing the game the right way' that's only a recent past phenomenon in the 80s and most of 90s we played poor hurling but we like to glorify it now as old Waterford style based on 10 years

WumBuster · 13-08-2013 05:00PM

Brad1234 wrote: »

Yes that's what we should become instead of all on the crutch of 'playing the game the right way' that's only a recent past phenomenon in the 80s and most of 90s we played poor hurling but we like to glorify it now as old Waterford style based on 10 years

Ah shur why not, lets all get big heads for ourselves considering the only all Ireland we've won in the past 50 years at hurling was the U-21's in '92. Does it even matter anymore. i dunno. At this stage im more interested in teams going out giving performances and playing hurling that we can be proud of. If we can do that consistently maybe an AI will come our way at some stage. maybe. we know how tough it is to win an AI

Brad1234 · 13-08-2013 05:05PM

WumBuster wrote: »

Ah shur why not, lets all get big heads for ourselves considering the only all Ireland we've won in the past 50 years at hurling was the U-21's in '92. Does it even matter anymore. i dunno. At this stage im more interested in teams going out giving performances and playing hurling that we can be proud of. If we can do that consistently maybe an AI will come our way at some stage. maybe. we know how tough it is to win an AI

How does wanting to win year in year out constitute getting big heads. It is tough to win no doubt going out to play a nice brand and being gallant losers in this day and age is laughable and insulting to players who want to achieve.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 05:11PM

Ropaire wrote: »

Indulge me this one time, next time i'll go check.

I think the players are looking for a high profile manager, I don't think these 3 names as suggested here will fit the bill. Finances of course will prevent a top guy coming down.

Ken McGrath - Won't get it because he lacks experience, was a selector for 1 year and I believe he only took it to fill a gap after bro Philip and Cashin left. I believe he also has work commitments. He has played until recently with most of the players and that wont be ideal for Ken or the players. He needs to get plenty club senior experience and maybe intercounty experience with the likes of a Carlow / Laois / Antrim or someone at that level before he takes a top tier job. Id be bowled over if he even let his name go forward.

Derek McGrath - I think Derek needs a bit more experience, he needs to maybe get involved and show something at county level maybe with an u21 side before hes ready to step up. he has had success everywhere he has been which is a great sign, he was successful as a player and so far with club and colleges. he has made a few mistakes but hes a smart guy and he'll learn from those. I met Liam Sheedy a few months back and had a conversation about hurling, he brought up Dereks name and he rates him very highly. Derek may well get the job if he wants it but again is he high profile enough for the players, eventhough he would get the support of the DLS clubmen and hes former colleges players. I think it would be a bad move on Dereks part and hope he isn't pressured into the job as it will come too soon in his career, he needs a few more years and I have no doubt he will be a successful Waterford senior manager.

Skin Ryan - don't reckon he will get it, his face never seemed to fit with the county board, he put his name forward on previous occasions and was turned down. I have a lot of time for him, he has made moderate progress in Carlow and Antrim when he was really swimming against the tide. he would be a gamble really if he was appointed, I don't think hed get it and maybe wouldn't put his name forward to face rejection again.

John Meyler, Ger Cunningham (Limerick), Richie Mulrooney, Joe Dooley, James Joxer O Connor, Chuck O Connor, Adrian Finan, Sean Stack, Sean Prendergast are some of the names off the top of my head who would be cost effective, know their stuff and have had success. I would suggest you look up their credentials before you post a response as Im sure a lot of ye havnt heard of them or would know of their achievement. They may not be suitable or may not be to the players liking either but I think it would be a starting point.

WumBuster · 13-08-2013 05:12PM

Brad1234 wrote: »

How does wanting to win year in year out constitute getting big heads. It is tough to win no doubt going out to play a nice brand and being gallant losers in this day and age is laughable and insulting to players who want to achieve.

Nothing wrong with going out wanting to win, but expecting to win is another thing. Lets be realistic, unless we win a few All irelands at either underage or senior we don't have any right to be expecting to win All irelands every year. A win for the minors next month would be a great start.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 05:13PM

Ropaire wrote: »

I'm lazy, and there's alot of crap in those posts. Summarise it for me please.

see above, hope you can wade through the crap!!!

dzilla · 13-08-2013 05:24PM

WumBuster wrote: »

I agree. Its not always about winning. In Cork, KK, Tipp it may be but in Waterford its about playing the game the right way, being competitive with the rest and bringing on younger players. Scully was doing all those things right. Like the minors, if we win an AI great but if we don't its great to be there anyway. If a Cork, Tipp or KK team lose an AI final they are regarded as failures in their own county and are quickly forgotten about. Is that what we want to become?

Yes.

Mountainlad · 13-08-2013 05:24PM

parish girl wrote: »

Am wondering about the whole Mullane thing. He wasn't the only fellow to make himself unavailable. Shane Sullivan, Philip Mahony, the sullivans and Stevie Molomphy were also unavailable at various times. Take Molumphy for example I know he was going away but he didn't go till April and was back recently for Ballyduff so he could have played a part but for some reason didn't. To be honest it was unheard of in times past for so many to be not available. One theory would be lack of confidence in management!!

Theory being the operative word.

Shane Sullivan is the only anyway significant on that could even make you think that way. Brian O'Sullivan is only a young fella who was in college and was making the best of his opportunity while he still had it.

Philip Mahony was working I heard as part of his course and therefore couldn't commit. He would hardly have anything against Ryan for giving him his opportunity, now would he? David O'Sullivan wasn't exactly a Waterford stalwart, I don't actually know what the story was with him I have to say.

Stephen Molumphy had to go, read an article by him last year about how he treated every game as his last. I am sure both him and the management sat down and decided it was best he didn't get involved with Waterford at all, as they should start as they mean to go on. Just because he was back recently and could have lined out against Kilkenny does not mean he should have. Having missed all the championship and league up til that point it would be a) totally unfair on the players involved and b) I doubt the hurling training is of a sufficient standard in the Lebanon to prepare you for inter-county hurling, I think we could I agree on that one anyway.

Eoin McGrath retired, he wouldn't have gotten a look in this year. Eoin Kelly retired, but on the basis of his performances last year alone that was best for all. Some people have a very selective memory when it comes to him.

lovelypoint · 13-08-2013 05:25PM

hardybuck wrote: »

Has anyone got any shred of confidence in the county board holding a robust recruitment progress, which results in the best available candidate being appointed to the role?

This is the really worrying thing for me. The poor financial position, also partly their fault, will constrain us in attracting desirable candidates, but will our officials actually have the level of competence to carry out this process effectively?

I cast my mind back to when Fitzgerald's term was up for review a couple of years ago. Cunningham made a passionate plea to him in the media to stay on, and then the following day it was announced that he would be one of a three man committee which was formed to review the manager's position.

You'd like to think that Croke Park would be able to offer more specialist resources to County Boards in this type of situation. Although they may not like to officially admit to it, there is a lot of money involved in each decision.

Very much agreed. Our CB need to go about their business a lot better, and more professionally. I'm all for shrewd appointments, but on form to date, I don't detect much sharpness there at all, and would prefer to trust in a capable structure to find a new manager, if our CB could at least do that. 3 - 5 man committee, composed of a variety of respected and knowledgeable and selfless county stalwarts, and the CB stepping aside and letting them do what is good for the county, is what I would like to see. Unfortunately the odds of this happening a very slim, alas.

WumBuster · 13-08-2013 05:28PM

dzilla wrote: »

Yes.

No

doz · 13-08-2013 06:14PM

Sam Swarek wrote: »

Don't be so lazy and look back through my previous posts, I have given suggestions and alternatives god knows how many times. You might grow up a bit and do some research before you post any personal attacks!

The intention was not a personal attack, merely a suggestion not to be so condescending and confrontational in responding to other posters. If that's your intention so be it.

I actually agree with your sentiments re Derek McGrath, Ken and Skin Ryan. Selectors maybe, but you'd have to expect that the players are looking for an improvement on Michael Ryan and not simply the first alternative out of the hat, with all due respect to those three men.

The Donal Og rumours are rife here in Cork and will be interesting to see how that develops if at all. I think there may be something in it, no smoke without fire.

TGV · 13-08-2013 06:51PM

Tony Brown player manager for 2014:-) ... its as good as any other suggestion here

Ropaire · 13-08-2013 07:30PM

Sam Swarek wrote: »

see above, hope you can wade through the crap!!!

I surely can. Good post too, cheers. You said none of that previously though, I had some free time and checked!

Mountainlad · 13-08-2013 08:06PM

11 players seemingly what turned up on Sunday. This is also what Newstalk have from their sources. The rest contacted by phone. 11 players. Out of a panel of 30. Quite a low quorum I would say.

Also, there's a lot being said by two posters in particular how if you talk to 'any' player on the panel they would have said Ryan is a joke, compared him to Timmy Ryan from the D'Unbeliveables etc etc. It seems the vote was quite split though, that there wasn't an overwhelming majority. This in turn, I think means that some of the players are very unhappy with others. It's an easy explanation for why they have been so quiet, and why you have nobody coming out taking responsibility.

In that respect, you have to say criticism of the players as a collective group is probably inadvisable. We don't know who voted what way (again I don't think we are necessarily entitled to know) so unfair to paint everybody with the same brush. My own grievance would be the lack of respect Michael Ryan has received, but then we don't know who has contacted him privately. It's a serious mess though.

Jarjohn · 13-08-2013 08:31PM

http://examiner.ie/sport/cusack-in-running-for-deise-job-239669.html

Tom Cunningham has a lot to answer. No contact official or otherwise from the players he states in article...he is the chairman ffs. Step down Tom like a good man. Replacing the chairman might be of more benefit to Waterford Hurling than any new manager!!

Ropaire · 13-08-2013 08:34PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

11 players seemingly what turned up on Sunday. This is also what Newstalk have from their sources. The rest contacted by phone. 11 players. Out of a panel of 30. Quite a low quorum I would say.

Also, there's a lot being said by two posters in particular how if you talk to 'any' player on the panel they would have said Ryan is a joke, compared him to Timmy Ryan from the D'Unbeliveables etc etc. It seems the vote was quite split though, that there wasn't an overwhelming majority. This in turn, I think means that some of the players are very unhappy with others. It's an easy explanation for why they have been so quiet, and why you have nobody coming out taking responsibility.

In that respect, you have to say criticism of the players as a collective group is probably inadvisable. We don't know who voted what way (again I don't think we are necessarily entitled to know) so unfair to paint everybody with the same brush. My own grievance would be the lack of respect Michael Ryan has received, but then we don't know who has contacted him privately. It's a serious mess though.

I've said before all this that the next man in after Ryan would be in a great position, the more that comes out about this the less likely that seems. No way are we going to attract a to class manager with this kind of carry on!

Mountainlad · 13-08-2013 08:39PM

Ropaire wrote: »

I've said before all this that the next man in after Ryan would be in a great position, the more that comes out about this the less likely that seems. No way are we going to attract a to class manager with this kind of carry on!

Whatever happens I hope Cunningham and Flanagan are still involved next year. Cunningham is a great hurling coach, his record with teams speak for themselves (Newtown, Thurles Sars and more recently UL).

Flanagan also is a great physical trainer and he has a long temr development pkan with the young fellas and knows what the players need. Would be totally back to square one if we go replacing them as well.

I still don't see Donal Og as a potential candidate until I hear something from the man himself. But, given his tactical knowledge and most importnatly his player first approach he might actuallly be a godsend, because I dunno would some of these players respond to a zero tolerance hardline another manager might come in and attempt to implement.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 08:47PM

doz wrote: »

The intention was not a personal attack, merely a suggestion not to be so condescending and confrontational in responding to other posters. If that's your intention so be it.

I actually agree with your sentiments re Derek McGrath, Ken and Skin Ryan. Selectors maybe, but you'd have to expect that the players are looking for an improvement on Michael Ryan and not simply the first alternative out of the hat, with all due respect to those three men.

The Donal Og rumours are rife here in Cork and will be interesting to see how that develops if at all. I think there may be something in it, no smoke without fire.

what I would like to see implemented is the model that they have in Kildare with the football at the moment, McGeeney is in charge of the u21s and seniors, Kildare have won the minor and u21 leinster cships this year (and possibly last year) and I think there was a large number of the u21s involved with the senior set up this year.
I think this set up is beneficial on a number of levels, the u21s are getting "senior" training, the guys are being exposed to what is expected of them if they are to step up to senior, when they do step up it wont be a huge adjustment to them, McGeeney is getting a closer look at what potential he has available to him for the senior side for the current year and the following year or two, it helps logistics also, the u21 lads are not serving too many masters which does tend to cause problems.
Waterford should consider this route, if they are progressive and looking to the future, there should be a tie in between the senior and u21 management, maybe a senior selector should manage the u21s and this individual would be in a position and gained enough experience in say 2-3 years time to take on the senior managers job. Waterford need to put a concrete 5 year plan in place, be progressive and build for the future, have some stability going forward.
Dempsey and fogarty, codys selectors had this set up in Kilkenny when Jackie Tyrell, tommy walsh et al were u21s, they won several u21 all Irelands and we all know how they ended up at senior level, its definitely something worth considering.

Sam Swarek · 13-08-2013 08:50PM

Jarjohn wrote: »

http://examiner.ie/sport/cusack-in-running-for-deise-job-239669.html

Tom Cunningham has a lot to answer. No contact official or otherwise from the players he states in article...he is the chairman ffs. Step down Tom like a good man. Replacing the chairman might be of more benefit to Waterford Hurling than any new manager!!

I said this previously, the buck stops with the county board, they are the root of a lot of the problem, managerial and financial! seems they are totally inept. old fashioned, big bellied gombeens.

Ropaire · 13-08-2013 08:58PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

Whatever happens I hope Cunningham and Flanagan are still involved next year. Cunningham is a great hurling coach, his record with teams speak for themselves (Newtown, Thurles Sars and more recently UL).

Flanagan also is a great physical trainer and he has a long temr development pkan with the young fellas and knows what the players need. Would be totally back to square one if we go replacing them as well.

I still don't see Donal Og as a potential candidate until I hear something from the man himself. But, given his tactical knowledge and most importnatly his player first approach he might actuallly be a godsend, because I dunno would some of these players respond to a zero tolerance hardline another manager might come in and attempt to implement.

Sam Swarek wrote: »

what I would like to see implemented is the model that they have in Kildare with the football at the moment, McGeeney is in charge of the u21s and seniors, Kildare have won the minor and u21 leinster cships this year (and possibly last year) and I think there was a large number of the u21s involved with the senior set up this year.
I think this set up is beneficial on a number of levels, the u21s are getting "senior" training, the guys are being exposed to what is expected of them if they are to step up to senior, when they do step up it wont be a huge adjustment to them, McGeeney is getting a closer look at what potential he has available to him for the senior side for the current year and the following year or two, it helps logistics also, the u21 lads are not serving too many masters which does tend to cause problems.
Waterford should consider this route, if they are progressive and looking to the future, there should be a tie in between the senior and u21 management, maybe a senior selector should manage the u21s and this individual would be in a position and gained enough experience in say 2-3 years time to take on the senior managers job. Waterford need to put a concrete 5 year plan in place, be progressive and build for the future, have some stability going forward.
Dempsey and fogarty, codys selectors had this set up in Kilkenny when Jackie Tyrell, tommy walsh et al were u21s, they won several u21 all Irelands and we all know how they ended up at senior level, its definitely something worth considering.

If bringing the u21s and seniors in under the same manager was adopted and Flannagan and Cunningham were still part of it, the exposure the u21s would get would be excellent. Especially when you look at the clubs alot of the current minor team are playing on, I'd fear some of them tailing off playing at junior and intermediate clubs and this type of setup would be invaluable to potentialy keeping some of them at a competitive level through the exposure they'd get.
Are our county board cute enough to try something like that though? Are they ****!

robopaddy · 13-08-2013 09:06PM

Sam Swarek wrote: »

I think Ive proven previously paddy that I am smarter than you about hurling, I'll dig up the posts and embarrass you again if you really want me to??

shur go for it why not im game for a laugh

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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