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Is 17 too high for the Age of consent

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245

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    #32
    MissD93
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭MissD93


    i'm 18 and i see so many girls my age being manipulated by older men who take advantage of their vulnerability. imo it should be 18.


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    #33
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    MissD93 wrote: »
    i'm 18 and i see so many girls my age being manipulated by older men who take advantage of their vulnerability. imo it should be 18.

    But what happens when its the reverse an younger girl manipulating the situation to there own advantage
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    #34
    MissD93
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭MissD93


    Gatling wrote: »
    But what happens when its the reverse an younger girl manipulating the situation to there own advantage

    shouldn't older men know better, they have a better clearer view of things and their hormones aren't about the place


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    #35
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    ..........


    Why should there be consequences when people choose to break the law? Seriously Nodin? You know better.


    Posing a question that has no relation to my meaning. Why should there be consequences for consensual sex between those of roughly similar age? Other than Victorian prudery.


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    #36
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    MissD93 wrote: »
    shouldn't older men know better, they have a better clearer view of things and their hormones aren't about the place

    So when a younger girl who obviously doesn't look her age throw's herself on an older man and engage in sexual activity several times before the truth comes out ,the chap deserves to have his life ruined
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #37
    MissD93
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭MissD93


    personally i think any adult should know a person really well to avoid nasty suprises


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    #38
    wazky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,516 ✭✭✭wazky


    MissD93 wrote: »
    personally i think any adult should know a person really well to avoid nasty suprises

    A quick grab of the genital region will soon clear up any nasty "surprises".


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    #39
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Nodin wrote: »
    Posing a question that has no relation to my meaning. Why should there be consequences for consensual sex between those of roughly similar age? Other than Victorian prudery.


    Because it's not just Victorian prudery Nodin. The laws are in place to protect society, it simply can't afford to make allowances for the individual cases like two teenagers who think they're mature enough to disregard said laws to have sex.

    The law is there to protect individuals who actually AREN'T yet mature enough to have sex.


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    #40
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    MissD93 wrote: »
    personally i think any adult should know a person really well to avoid nasty suprises

    Bar asking for a passport and driving licence fro every bloke or girl you talk things happen spur of the moment or when drink is involved ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #41
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Because it's not just Victorian prudery Nodin. The laws are in place to protect society, it simply can't afford to make allowances for the individual cases like two teenagers who think they're mature enough to disregard said laws to have sex.

    The law is there to protect individuals who actually AREN'T yet mature enough to have sex.



    ...which could easily be lowered to 15.


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    #42
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    wazky wrote: »
    A quick grab of the genital region will soon clear up any nasty "surprises".


    ....well we're presuming gender identification isn't the problem.


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    #43
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...which could easily be lowered to 15.


    Which could just as easily stay at 17. I mean, we could go back and forth all day and some would have the age of consent lowered to 12 (The Vatican of all places, only recently upped it to 18), some as high as 25 (I believe was mentioned in this thread), so somewhere there has to be that arbitrary line drawn.

    I mean, unquestionably, there are 15 year olds that are well informed and are mature for their age, but by that same token, there are far many more ill informed 15 year olds that are immature for their age when it comes to sexual matters.

    The law cannot account for every individual circumstance.


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    #44
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Should it not be sorted by what you just said case by case basis rather than throw a broad blanket rape every time ,
    Yes if a young girl has been manipulated into a sexual relationship ,
    But then another look if its an intelligent decision to engage in a sexual relationship
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #45
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Gatling wrote: »
    Should it not be sorted by what you just said case by case basis rather than throw a broad blanket rape every time ,
    Yes if a young girl has been manipulated into a sexual relationship ,
    But then another look if its an intelligent decision to engage in a sexual relationship


    The age of consent doesn't just exist to protect young girls though, it is also there to protect young boys from being manipulated too.

    Also, the judicial system can only deal with cases that are reported to them. It's also at the discretion of the DPP whether or not to prosecute a case in the case of two individuals under the age of consent, so in that sense at least the cases are dealt with on an individual basis.


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    #46
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I mean, unquestionably, there are 15 year olds that are well informed and are mature for their age, but by that same token, there are far many more ill informed 15 year olds that are immature for their age when it comes to sexual matters.
    Well, Germany, France, Denmark and Italy all disagree with you, and they all have far lower teen pregnancy rates than we do in Ireland.

    I don't really see what's being protected here, other than the sensibilities of older conservatives and overprotective parents who still see their little darlings as children.


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    #47
    Miss Lockhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Miss Lockhart


    Personally I don't think it is too high. I teach sex ed teenagers and despite their bravado they're by and large far too emotionally immature for sex.

    I would perhaps favour dropping the age of consent to 15, but with the introduction of a 2-year age gap rule for under 18s.


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    #48
    Dick Masterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭Dick Masterson


    They might as well lower it seeing as it's broken probably everyday of the week in Ireland. When I was 18 nearly a decade ago, everyone in my area found it acceptable for an 18 year old to be sexually involved with a 16 year old. It's definitely morally acceptable and I've never heard anyone say otherwise. Also, girls start puberty about two years (11) before boys (13), so it's a very unscientific law, too.


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    #49
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Well, Germany, France, Denmark and Italy all disagree with you, and they all have far lower teen pregnancy rates than we do in Ireland.


    I see, and do Germany, France, Denmark and Italy all have the exact same social structure, educational system, social attitude to sexuality as we do here in Ireland?

    I didn't think so. So the comparison to other countries is invalid.

    I don't really see what's being protected here


    Young people under the arbitrary age of consent, which in this country is 17.

    other than the sensibilities of older conservatives and overprotective parents who still see their little darlings as children.


    And the sort of dismissive nonsense above is exactly why the arbitrary age exists, because if the minority of short sighted people such as yourself had their way, you would also not want to deal with the possible adverse consequences of your decisions.

    The State doesn't have the luxury of your short sighted, blinkered, mé-féin vision.


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    #50
    udonwannado
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭udonwannado


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I see, and do Germany, France, Denmark and Italy all have the exact same social structure, educational system, social attitude to sexuality as we do here in Ireland?

    I didn't think so. So the comparison to other countries is invalid.

    They don't have the same social structure, educational system, social attitudes to sex as each other either, but do have the same age of consent.


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    #51
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I see, and do Germany, France, Denmark and Italy all have the exact same social structure, educational system, social attitude to sexuality as we do here in Ireland?

    I didn't think so. So the comparison to other countries is invalid.
    This was kinda the point I was going to get at.

    the age of consent in Italy is 14, and their teen birth rate is much lower than Ireland's. The age of consent in the US is 18 and their teen birth is higher rate than both Ireland's and Italy's.The age of consent in Bulgaria is 14 and the teen birth rate is higher than all three aforementioned contries.

    You know why? Because horny teenagers don't give a **** about an arbitrary piece of legislation, but they are influenced by - and this will sound familiar - social structure, educational systems, and social attitudes to sexuality.

    So I'm still wondering why this silly piece of punitive legislation is in place as it is, working under the reasonable axioms that:

    - it is not inherently wrong for teenagers to have sex
    - punitive legislation that does not serve any tangible purpose is bad, especially when it involves, say, teenagers in consenting sexual relationships being branded as statutory rapists.

    Young people under the arbitrary age of consent, which in this country is 17.
    And in what way are they protected by being criminalised? Bearing in mind I'm talking about two teenagers of the same age, or very close in age.

    And the sort of dismissive nonsense above is exactly why the arbitrary age exists, because if the minority of short sighted people such as yourself had their way, you would also not want to deal with the possible adverse consequences of your decisions.

    The State doesn't have the luxury of your short sighted, blinkered, mé-féin vision.
    Sorry, I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

    "Having my way" involves relaxing a law that criminalises teenagers without serving any apparent purpose. I'd also conjecture that people of a mind with me are not as small a minority as you seem to think, or even a minority at all.

    I have no idea how my views are selfish, given that I'm not below the age of consent and I don't have any desire to have sex with anyone below the age of consent.


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    #52
    1shot16
    Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16


    In spain its 14 i believe thats too low mabye 15 or even 16!


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    #53
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    17 is about right I think


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    #54
    1shot16
    Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭1shot16


    gcgirl wrote: »
    17 is about right I think

    15 is right...


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    #55
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    It should be based on maturity, not age. I know some 20+ year olds who have had multiple kids 'by accident' and haven't a clue about raising them.


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    #56
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    I come from a place where it's 14.

    But then again, I also come for a place where sex education will start in kindergarden, for those kids whose parents haven't started to explain things to them yet. Contraception is freely available, and abortions while not strictly legal are not punishable by law.

    I think when it comes to unwanted pregnancies, the age of consent is about as important and influential as Kim Jong Un's opinion on stripey underwear. If you don't teach kids how to play it safe and why to play it safe, it won't matter if they start shagging aged 15 or aged 18.


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    #57
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    Imagine what it will be like being a granddad at 28 if it's reduced to 14....
    a great granddad at 42, a great great granddad at 56, a great great great granddad at 70 and a great great great great granddad at 84....

    **** that ****, I'm not buying that many presents...

    My son is nearly 10. No one in any country is going to convince me he's legally allowed to have sex in 4 - 5 years.


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    #58
    Conor Bourke
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Lexie I've dealt with eight year olds giving blow jobs to 11 year olds, it's not uncommon as you might think, and certainly kids think they're more clued in to sex nowadays.

    Sorry, can I come back to this for just a moment. What. The actual. Fook?! You have serious, first-hand experience of this happening, as opposed to just idle hearsay and scaremongering?

    That made my blood run cold. My god-daughter is 9. I'm horrified. Is it really "not as uncommon as I'd think"?!


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    #59
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I see, and do Germany, France, Denmark and Italy all have the exact same social structure, educational system, social attitude to sexuality as we do here in Ireland?

    I didn't think so. So the comparison to other countries is invalid.
    I assume you apply the same logic to other Irish laws around gay marriage, abortion etc?


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    #60
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,437 ✭✭✭tritium


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Here's why the distinction-



    Source: http://www.b4udecide.ie/the_facts/age_of_consent.htm

    .

    One of the most staggeringly stupid and sexist laws that any government has ever tried to defend in court. I really hope someone asks Europe to give an opinion on this one


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    #61
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Nodin wrote: »
    It criminalises teenagers for having sex with teenagers, which is fucking mental. It should be lowered to 14 or 15

    As most of them 14 year olds have the mentality and responsiblity of a 10 year old.

    Is a 10 year old suitable to be a mother with all the responsibility involved, where is society heading?

    I guess that depends on where you stand.


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