Why can nobody speak Irish?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-08-2013 12:52PM

epluribusunum wrote: »

I seriously hope this is not how you live your life. There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going Princess.

Most people do time-consuming, not useful, inconvenient things as their pastimes. What about the 30 year old who plays football on the weekend? Time-consuming, not useful, inconvenient. Or the person that volunteers on weeknights? Time-consuming, not-useful, inconvenient.

Terrible excuses on how to live a life really.

Very useful to tbe people involved. I played football for many years, got enjoment out of it. Volunterred a fee times, very ueful to me and the people I helped out!! Wasn't all the inconvenient either...

PopePalpatine · 10-08-2013 01:44PM

Also, they're not forcing you to play football either. :pac:

Frank Lee Midere · 10-08-2013 04:01PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

99% speak English. I think that clears up the order of officialness.

No it doesn't.

The solution here is , since majoritarianism rules, is to stop obligatory Irish but to protect Irish Gaeltacht and Irish speakers as a cultural minority. Which we are forced to do by international law anyway.

Rubeter · 10-08-2013 04:35PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No it doesn't.

The solution here is , since majoritarianism rules, is to stop obligatory Irish but to protect Irish Gaeltacht and Irish speakers as a cultural minority. Which we are forced to do by international law anyway.

It isn't the tiny number of native Irish speakers who are enforcing compulsory Irish in schools, many many Irish speakers would like to see an end to it.
Every single survey done has shown a majority of the general population in favour of it.
I am not advocating it, I am just pointing out the fallacy of thinking the minority of Irish speakers are somehow hijacking the education system.

Tony EH · 10-08-2013 06:57PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We spoke English in 1922.

Not only that, the Constitution was actually written in English.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-08-2013 07:15PM

Rubeter wrote: »

It isn't the tiny number of native Irish speakers who are enforcing compulsory Irish in schools, many many Irish speakers would like to see an end to it.
Every single survey done has shown a majority of the general population in favour of it.
I am not advocating it, I am just pointing out the fallacy of thinking the minority of Irish speakers are somehow hijacking the education system.

And that (if true) is why I detest socially conservative democdacy.

BognarRegis · 11-08-2013 06:20AM

Rubeter wrote: »

Every single survey done has shown a majority of the general population in favour of it.

This is not surprising as the surveys were commissioned by the Irish language lobby.

Rubeter · 11-08-2013 07:39AM

BognarRegis wrote: »

This is not surprising as the surveys were commissioned by the Irish language lobby.

You don't take any notice of what the so called Irish language lobby say, but you want all Irish speakers herded into ghettos so why should anyone take any notice of what you say?

Iwasfrozen · 11-08-2013 11:39AM

Rubeter wrote: »

You don't take any notice of what the so called Irish language lobby say, but you want all Irish speakers herded into ghettos so why should anyone take any notice of what you say?

Proof?

DoozerT6 · 11-08-2013 03:53PM

I haven't read the whole thread, but I learned Irish much the same as everybody else, wasn't that fluent, and when I left school I forgot all about it.

But honestly I think it would be a shame for any minority language to die out completely - it was our way of life and our mother tongue for many hundreds of years before English was imposed on us. Quite honestly, if I heard of some other country of our size, and as well-known worldwide as Ireland, allowing their native tongue to die out due to lack of interest in just a hundred years or so, I would be saddened.

I completely understand that the language is not taught in a particularly user-friendly way. Ideally I would love to see ALL primary schools become Gaelscoileanna (I know this would take many years to come to fruition, and I also know that it may be inconvenient for immigrants who have no knowledge whatsoever of the Irish language, but they would have to adapt, like they would in any other foreign country). If all primary schools were Gaelscoileanna, it would surely open the doors for more second level schools to do likewise. Children/parents could then choose whether to go to an Irish or English-speaking secondary school.

I know it's idealistic and will never happen, but it makes Irish a living, breathing, used-in-real-life language again instead of something we had to suffer through for our entire education. I'm no militant Gaelgoir myself, just an ordinary Irish person who thinks the Dept of Education could make Irish a helluva lot more interesting if they really put their minds to it.

Iwasfrozen · 11-08-2013 04:11PM

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I know it's idealistic and will never happen, but it makes Irish a living, breathing, used-in-real-life language again instead of something we had to suffer through for our entire education. I'm no militant Gaelgoir myself, just an ordinary Irish person who thinks the Dept of Education could make Irish a helluva lot more interesting if they really put their minds to it.

Stop waiting for the Government to do something. Here you go, http://www.isfeidirliom.ie/. Take out a notepad and start learning.

DoozerT6 · 11-08-2013 04:17PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Stop waiting for the Government to do something. Here you go, http://www.isfeidirliom.ie/. Take out a notepad and start learning.

What a great website! Although it looks like they're upgrading it at the moment. Thanks for the link

HansHolzel · 11-08-2013 04:36PM

What makes me laugh is the Irish haters who find they could do with a bit of it abroad when they need to keep some communication private but then find themselves humiliated when they discover that, say, some Turkish stallholder has more of the language than they have.

Apart from that contradiction, the school syllabus IS dreadful.

Otherwise:

It’s handy to be able to shout “Cigire!” to one’s companions if travelling without a ticket when an inspector appears;
“Níl siad ach ag magadh fúinn” will transmit ‘They are only taking the piss out of us’, as in a case of bad service;
“Sílim go bhfuil an fear sin aerach” may sum up an opinion of someone’s sexual orientation, in a case of unwanted attention;
“Féach taobh thiar duit ach tóg go bog é” is the Irish for ‘Look behind you but take it easy’;
"Tá sé ró-chostasach" = It's too expensive
“B’fhearr liom áit eile” means ‘I’d prefer another place.’
"Tá an leithreas an-salach ar fad." Hardly needs translation.
"An féidir linn é seo a sheachaint?" = Can we avoid this?
"Cé mhéad a fhágfaimid mar aisce?" How much will we leave as a tip?
"Táim ag iompar ceann acu abhaile i mo mhála" = I'm taking one of them home in my bag.
"Rithimís" = Let's do a runner.

Iwasfrozen · 11-08-2013 09:10PM

HansHolzel wrote: »

What makes me laugh is the Irish haters who find they could do with a bit of it abroad when they need to keep some communication private but then find themselves humiliated when they discover that, say, some Turkish stallholder has more of the language than they have.

Apart from that contradiction, the school syllabus IS dreadful.

Otherwise:

It’s handy to be able to shout “Cigire!” to one’s companions if travelling without a ticket when an inspector appears;
“Níl siad ach ag magadh fúinn” will transmit ‘They are only taking the piss out of us’, as in a case of bad service;
“Sílim go bhfuil an fear sin aerach” may sum up an opinion of someone’s sexual orientation, in a case of unwanted attention;
“Féach taobh thiar duit ach tóg go bog é” is the Irish for ‘Look behind you but take it easy’;
"Tá sé ró-chostasach" = It's too expensive
“B’fhearr liom áit eile” means ‘I’d prefer another place.’
"Tá an leithreas an-salach ar fad." Hardly needs translation.
"An féidir linn é seo a sheachaint?" = Can we avoid this?
"Cé mhéad a fhágfaimid mar aisce?" How much will we leave as a tip?
"Táim ag iompar ceann acu abhaile i mo mhála" = I'm taking one of them home in my bag.
"Rithimís" = Let's do a runner.

So this is what the Irish language has been reduced to? Pig Latin to confuse Johnny Foreigner. Tickety-boo.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 11-08-2013 09:16PM

HansHolzel wrote: »

What makes me laugh is the Irish haters who find they could do with a bit of it abroad when they need to keep some communication private but then find themselves humiliated when they discover that, say, some Turkish stallholder has more of the language than they have.

Apart from that contradiction, the school syllabus IS dreadful.

Otherwise:

It’s handy to be able to shout “Cigire!” to one’s companions if travelling without a ticket when an inspector appears;
“Níl siad ach ag magadh fúinn” will transmit ‘They are only taking the piss out of us’, as in a case of bad service;
“Sílim go bhfuil an fear sin aerach” may sum up an opinion of someone’s sexual orientation, in a case of unwanted attention;
“Féach taobh thiar duit ach tóg go bog é” is the Irish for ‘Look behind you but take it easy’;
"Tá sé ró-chostasach" = It's too expensive
“B’fhearr liom áit eile” means ‘I’d prefer another place.’
"Tá an leithreas an-salach ar fad." Hardly needs translation.
"An féidir linn é seo a sheachaint?" = Can we avoid this?
"Cé mhéad a fhágfaimid mar aisce?" How much will we leave as a tip?
"Táim ag iompar ceann acu abhaile i mo mhála" = I'm taking one of them home in my bag.
"Rithimís" = Let's do a runner.

This reminds me of the time I was in an ATM queue in Berlin when I suddenly heard Irish being spoken behind me. No, I don't know what they were saying, but the point remains: what makes you so sure your conversation is private...?

Noreen1 · 11-08-2013 10:25PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Balls. Ruberter was acting like a jerk and I have no time or patience for dealing with such people. The discussion is still ongoing. If he wants his points addressed, he can make them in a civil manner.

What is the "entire" arguement? That is JUST a single point of contention, not an entire argument.

And IF it is the case that there is a level playing ground in learning a second language, how come there is such a TINY minority of Irish speakers in this country, despite the fact that EVERYONE has to learn the language? And dispite the fact that such importance was placed on it in Irish schools? You're Polish (I presume), so you have no idea how schooling, at that level, operates in this country.

Other nations have had a long history of learning English and other languages of their neighbours. Our history with learning second languages is pretty bad (our own ancient tongue being a prime example). My point on this is that if the current situation was reversed and we spoke Irish as our first language and had to learn English as our second language, there would be a hit involved in that.

I really do not understand some people's problem with this.

Mastering a language is NOT an easy thing. It certainly is not the blaise endevour that some are trying to make it out to be. Otherwise we'd all be speaking both English and Irish with no problem.

And it isn't a case of the Irish being "retarded" or any of that old toss. I am not sure where the malaise lies, but looking at our current situation re: second languages, it's reasonable to assume that we just don't pick them up too readilly. for whatever reason. Out of my own circle of friends and aquaintances and there offshoots, I can think of NO Irish person that knows a second language, in which they could hold a complex adult conversation. Some have a few words, I myself have a tiny smattering of German. But, the only people I know who have a functional second language are my foreign friends.

The thing is, some of us are speaking both English and Irish with no problem.
I learned Irish from my father, simply by his speaking it to me from babyhood.

I learned English from my mother, in the same way.

My own children speak Irish to me, and English to their father.
My husband understands Irish, but doesn't speak it - he picked up an understanding of the language just from hearing it spoken.

I suspect that the Gaelscoileanna will produce similar results.

old hippy · 12-08-2013 12:34PM

HansHolzel wrote: »

What makes me laugh is the Irish haters who find they could do with a bit of it abroad when they need to keep some communication private but then find themselves humiliated when they discover that, say, some Turkish stallholder has more of the language than they have.

Apart from that contradiction, the school syllabus IS dreadful.

Otherwise:

It’s handy to be able to shout “Cigire!” to one’s companions if travelling without a ticket when an inspector appears;
“Níl siad ach ag magadh fúinn” will transmit ‘They are only taking the piss out of us’, as in a case of bad service;
“Sílim go bhfuil an fear sin aerach” may sum up an opinion of someone’s sexual orientation, in a case of unwanted attention;
“Féach taobh thiar duit ach tóg go bog é” is the Irish for ‘Look behind you but take it easy’;
"Tá sé ró-chostasach" = It's too expensive
“B’fhearr liom áit eile” means ‘I’d prefer another place.’
"Tá an leithreas an-salach ar fad." Hardly needs translation.
"An féidir linn é seo a sheachaint?" = Can we avoid this?
"Cé mhéad a fhágfaimid mar aisce?" How much will we leave as a tip?
"Táim ag iompar ceann acu abhaile i mo mhála" = I'm taking one of them home in my bag.
"Rithimís" = Let's do a runner.

You do the language no favours with your choice of phrases. What is it? A guide for scumbaggery As Gaeilge?

Noreen1 · 12-08-2013 03:51PM

On a lighter note, some people have fun when using the Irish language!:p:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A6__HssHW8

Fair play where it's due, it's well done!

Iwasfrozen · 12-08-2013 04:19PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

On a lighter note, some people have fun when using the Irish language!:p:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A6__HssHW8

Fair play where it's due, it's well done!

You see? Making Irish optional won't kill the language, plenty will still speak it you have nothing to be afraid of.

Noreen1 · 12-08-2013 05:16PM

Where did I say anything about being afraid?

HansHolzel · 12-08-2013 05:25PM

old hippy wrote: »

You do the language no favours with your choice of phrases. What is it? A guide for scumbaggery As Gaeilge?

And saoithín is the Irish for prig.

old hippy · 12-08-2013 05:27PM

HansHolzel wrote: »

And saoithín is the Irish for prig.

Is that so? What's the Irish for "keep digging"?

BognarRegis · 12-08-2013 05:47PM

I think the Irish language needs a slogan that sums up its methods and future direction, how about:

Tiocfaidh Our Law.

Kicking Bird · 12-08-2013 05:57PM

BognarRegis wrote: »

I think the Irish language needs a slogan that sums up its methods and future direction, how about:

Tiocfaidh Our Law.

Yawn......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

68Murph68 · 12-08-2013 06:22PM

So you have a situation where 1.77 million people say they can speak Irish yet only 77,185 speak it daily, according to the census.

To me that's a whole lot of people saying that they have little to no interest in the language.

Short of putting guns to peoples heads I really don't see the rates of Irish increasing anytime soon.

An interesting question to ask would be how happy are taxpayers with the amount of their taxes being spent on the cost of the Irish language?

TG4, Radio na Gaelthachta, grants to the Gaeltacht areas, Dept of the Gaeltacht, costs of translating all government publications in Irish all cost money. Are the overwhelming majority of Irish taxpayers happy about spending money on these services when they get little to no benefit from them?

I'd imagine the cost of Irish teachers/teaching would remain the same no matter what happens (whether they continue teaching Irish to pupils the majority of whom have little to no interest in it or are reallocated to other subjects/areas)

Iwasfrozen · 12-08-2013 06:44PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

Where did I say anything about being afraid?

You don't need to compulsion by it's nature reeks of desperation. I hope Irish does grow so you and others like you will accept optional Irish.

BognarRegis · 12-08-2013 06:56PM

68Murph68 wrote: »

An interesting question to ask would be how happy are taxpayers with the amount of their taxes being spent on the cost of the Irish language?

Not surprisingly, questions like that never appeared in the carefully-crafted surveys that showed us to be all in favour of the Gaelic Revival 2.0.

68Murph68 wrote: »

I'd imagine the cost of Irish teachers/teaching would remain the same no matter what happens (whether they continue teaching Irish to pupils the majority of whom have little to no interest in it or are reallocated to other subjects/areas)

Still, there would be some benefit to the language's image and to the children's welfare if the compulsion were removed, even if this meant the teachers would be idle during the time allocated for compulsory Irish-language lessons.

HansHolzel · 12-08-2013 07:17PM

old hippy wrote: »

Is that so? What's the Irish for "keep digging"?

Crusty the clown

Friend Computer · 12-08-2013 07:47PM

Look, it's simple: people want to feel like they're supporting the language without actually having to do anything. And I'm sure to some extent there's a feeling in Irish society that if you don't support it you're "not really Irish".

It's the kind of childish problem of defining ourselves not by who we are but who we aren't. There's an interesting discussion to be had about what it means to find one's identity in a post-colonial society and I think we could move past the obsession with the language if we came to some resolution.

Noreen1 · 12-08-2013 07:52PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You don't need to compulsion by it's nature reeks of desperation. I hope Irish does grow so you and others like you will accept optional Irish.

I haven't said a word about compulsion in this thread, either!

Why can nobody speak Irish?

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