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Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

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Comments

  • #782
    Yellow121
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Yellow121


    Love2u wrote: »
    There is no reason good enough for us to introduce death penalty, it doesn't work. "You shall not kill".

    There are good enough reasons. Rape and cold blooded murder. "An eye for an eye."


  • #783
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Yellow121 wrote: »
    How is that fair? They viciously rape or kill someone and in return we give them some counselling.
    That's the opposite of fair.

    Not exactly what I meant. We need to find out more about the human condition and the factors that lead to horrific offences against other humans. Far too easy to say "kill the scumbags".


  • #784
    Yellow121
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Yellow121


    old hippy wrote: »
    Not exactly what I meant. We need to find out more about the human condition and the factors that lead to horrific offences against other humans. Far too easy to say "kill the scumbags".

    Yes we need to find out, so we delve into their brain. We find what screws are loose and so forth. Then it's injection time.


  • #785
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    gitane007 wrote: »
    Originally Posted by Princess Consuela Bananahammock View Post
    In other words, take paid labour away from people?


    You could just have them supervise and pass on the skills needed to do the jobs, .............they could still get paid and have less work to do and eventually rise to higher skill sets with all that lovely extra spare time, they could also concentrate more time towards their familys which in turn lends to a better society all round cos kids have parents at home and are engaged with them more and not just sent out to "play with the traffic". People could take more time off , go on more holidays , experience more culture differences, take those experiences back to Ireland, All the while earning the same money but doin way less work or rather sacrificing way less of their time for work.

    That's some crazy reasoning there.


  • #786
    gitane007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭gitane007


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    That's some crazy reasoning there.

    I dont see whats so crazy about having prisoners doin donkey work and the rest of us having more time on our hands to live better lives with just as much money. Obviously i know its not a practical solution but its one i would vote for.


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  • #787
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    old hippy wrote: »
    Not exactly what I meant. We need to find out more about the human condition and the factors that lead to horrific offences against other humans. Far too easy to say "kill the scumbags".

    No it's far too easy to spout nonsense about finding out about the "human condition" by questioning murderous kidnapping rapists. Anyone over puberty knows why rapists rape; because it feels good for rapists to have sex with someone who doesn't want it. That's why they do it; it's not about not having a sexual outlet, it's about sexual power and control. Most murders are crimes of circumstance or passion. This stuff isn't rocket science. And to say these assholes as some sort of puzzle piece in the human race's quest to know itself better is a horrendous thing to come out with, (and is really what drags us all down to their level). Really, only the most shut-in ivory tower academic would believe that stuff.

    What is difficult is for us all as a society to shout stop, enough.

    What is difficult is saying our society is worth too much for it to be torn apart by predators and barbaric nuisances who go on and on and on and on, devouring their victims again and again in an endless cycle of injustice, supported by pre-paid barristers and lenient judges.

    What is difficult is taking responsibility for one another, an anathema in the modern society which adores the cult of the individual; I love my society, what I want to know is when did it become ok for people who do not love it to tear it apart.

    You want to know more about the human condition? Read a book or watch a movie, get out and talk to real human beings, but you're not going to find any answers in the destructive brains of those who kill and rape.


  • #788
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    gitane007 wrote: »
    I dont see whats so crazy about having prisoners doin donkey work and the rest of us having more time on our hands to live better lives with just as much money. Obviously i know its not a practical solution but its one i would vote for.

    Nothing is necessarily wrong with it, it just wouldn't work like that.


  • #789
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    Yellow121 wrote: »
    There are good enough reasons. Rape and cold blooded murder. "An eye for an eye."

    That's why this world is a mess, people like you believing in "An eye for an eye". Your talking rubbish.


  • #790
    Yellow121
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Yellow121


    Love2u wrote: »
    That's why this world is a mess, people like you believing in "An eye for an eye". Your talking rubbish.

    You said "you shall not kill", I was responding in kind. Do you not think murderers and rapists make the World a mess by the way?


  • #791
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Love2u wrote: »
    That's why this world is a mess, people like you believing in "An eye for an eye". Your talking rubbish.

    No the world is a mess because of people like you believing in "turn the other cheek".

    It's a mess because the principles of forgiveness and fraternity have been hijacked by cowards and simpletons who extend those virtues upon those that have no concept of such things.

    Your kneejerk reaction that those who seek punishment are "talking rubbish" has to be because you can't fathom having the responsibility of actually facing up to those that would do you me and the rest of society harm.

    But it's easy to have no standards. It's easy to turn virtues such as forgiveness into vice, we see it every day, aggressors being let off the hook and the victim left alone in their own living nightmare.


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  • #792
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    catallus wrote: »
    No the world is a mess because of people like you believing in "turn the other cheek".

    It's a mess because the principles of forgiveness and fraternity have been hijacked by cowards and simpletons who extend those virtues upon those that have no concept of such things.

    Your kneejerk reaction that those who seek punishment are "talking rubbish" has to be because you can't fathom having the responsibility of actually facing up to those that would do you me and the rest of society harm.

    But it's easy to have no standards. It's easy to turn virtues such as forgiveness into vice, we see it every day, aggressors being let off the hook and the victim left alone in their own living nightmare.

    This is about the death penalty. It has been proven that its not effective. This is not a proper solution for "punishment". Does that now make you the "simpleton"! To tell someone they are turning the other cheek just because they don't believe in the death penalty is ridiculous.


  • #793
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    Yellow121 wrote: »
    You said "you shall not kill", I was responding in kind. Do you not think murderers and rapists make the World a mess by the way?

    But do two wrongs make a right. Death penalty is not the solution.


  • #794
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Love2u wrote: »
    This is about the death penalty. It has been proven that its not effective. This is not a proper solution for "punishment". Does that now make you the "simpleton"! To tell someone they are turning the other cheek just because they don't believe in the death penalty is ridiculous.

    It is 100% effective. It prevents a criminal from re-offending.

    Two wrongs usually do make a right. Think about it.


  • #795
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    catallus wrote: »
    It is 100% effective. It prevents a criminal from re-offending.

    Two wrongs usually do make a right. Think about it.[/

    Show me the proof and facts that its 100% effective! It may be effective in your mind but the reality is that it is not the answer or solution to crime.


  • #796
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    catallus wrote: »
    It is 100% effective. It prevents a criminal from re-offending.

    Two wrongs usually do make a right. Think about it.

    Show me the proof and facts that its 100% effective! It may be effective in your mind but the reality is that it is not the answer or solution to crime.


  • #797
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Proof and facts??? Dead people don't re-offend! Is that good enough??


  • #798
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    catallus wrote: »
    Proof and facts??? Dead people don't re-offend! Is that good enough??

    That's your thinking. Show me proof and facts that the death penalty works and deters criminals from offending or reoffending. If you had someone you knew who went down the wrong path and commited a crime would you like to see them go through the death penalty???? No you would like to see them get the help they needed and have them alive.


  • #799
    Yellow121
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Yellow121


    Love2u wrote: »
    That's your thinking. Show me proof and facts that the death penalty works and deters criminals from offending or reoffending. If you had someone you knew who went down the wrong path and commited a crime would you like to see them go through the death penalty???? No you would like to see them get the help they needed and have them alive.

    He's saying they can't reoffend if they're dead. Understand?


  • #800
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    Yellow121 wrote: »
    He's saying they can't reoffend if they're dead. Understand?

    And I'll say show me the proof and facts that death penalty deters people from offending in the first instance. Smart ass.


  • #801
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Love2u wrote: »
    That's your thinking. Show me proof and facts that the death penalty works and deters criminals from offending or reoffending. If you had someone you knew who went down the wrong path and commited a crime would you like to see them go through the death penalty???? No you would like to see them get the help they needed and have them alive.

    Deterrence isn't the issue. A killer isn't going to be deterred from his actions, circumstance and/or passion overcome reason; a rapist won't weigh up potential consequences in their blind depraved hunger for wailing flesh.

    If someone I knew committed a heinous rape or murder? Yes, (and I have thought about this) then I'd want them punished, by death if needs be.

    This is what gets me, when people bring up this "Oh, if it was a family member or friend, you wouldn't support the death penalty." This thinking is framed by the logic of the coward. There is too much emphasis on rights, not enough on responsibility.

    We're not talking about summary execution of people for breaking windows, or even for destroying people's lives by assaulting them; we're talking about the worst crimes here.


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  • #802
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    catallus wrote: »
    Deterrence isn't the issue. A killer isn't going to be deterred from his actions, circumstance and/or passion overcome reason; a rapist won't weigh up potential consequences in their blind depraved hunger for wailing flesh.

    If someone I knew committed a heinous rape or murder? Yes, (and I have thought about this) then I'd want them punished, by death if needs be.

    This is what gets me, when people bring up this "Oh, if it was a family member or friend, you wouldn't support the death penalty." This thinking is framed by the logic of the coward. There is too much emphasis on rights, not enough on responsibility.

    So if "deterrence isn't the issue" why bother with death penalty? What will it solve? Don't say they can't reoffend if given the death penalty. If they are in prison the can't reoffend. So why take the extreme measure of death penalty


  • #803
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    catallus wrote: »
    It is 100% effective. It prevents a criminal from re-offending.
    its 0 % effective, and life in prison stops a criminal from re-offending at a quarter of the cost to the tax payer
    catallus wrote: »
    Two wrongs usually do make a right.
    no they don't
    catallus wrote: »
    Think about it.
    i have, its nonsense, the death penalty is gone from ireland, the majority of the people in ireland don't want it, they voted to abolish it from the constitution

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #804
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Love2u wrote: »
    So if "deterrence isn't the issue" why bother with death penalty? What will it solve? Don't say they can't reoffend if given the death penalty. If they are in prison the can't reoffend. So why take the extreme measure of death penalty

    Because it's about punishment and revenge. These two factors are the most essential parts of justice.


  • #805
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    Love2u wrote: »
    So if "deterrence isn't the issue" why bother with death penalty? What will it solve? Don't say they can't reoffend if given the death penalty. If they are in prison the can't reoffend. So why take the extreme measure of death penalty

    Because it would clear up quite a few places in prisons, that in turn will allow us to stick quite a few people in prison, where they belong.

    While they're there they can then contemplate their sins and then maybe, just maybe, when they come out they won't re-offend and they won't get too intimately acquainted with the death penalty. If they didn't get the message we'll just do the whole thing over again.

    Capisce? :D


  • #806
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    end of the road wrote: »
    its 0 % effective, and life in prison stops a criminal from re-offending at a quarter of the cost to the tax payer

    no they don't

    i have, its nonsense, the death penalty is gone from ireland, the majority of the people in ireland don't want it, they voted to abolish it from the constitution

    The majority of people in Ireland also claim to be Catholic :rolleyes:


  • #807
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    wexie wrote: »
    Because it would clear up quite a few places in prisons, that in turn will allow us to stick quite a few people in prison, where they belong.

    Prison is bad. The less people we send to prison the better. Obviously it's necessary for certain criminals though.


  • #808
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    catallus wrote: »
    Because it's about punishment and revenge. These two factors are the most essential parts of justice.

    It's not about punishment and revenge, think about what you are saying.


  • #809
    Love2u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 325 ✭✭Love2u


    wexie wrote: »
    The majority of people in Ireland also claim to be Catholic :rolleyes:

    Get back on topic.


  • #810
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    Prison is bad. The less people we send to prison the better. Obviously it's necessary for certain criminals though.

    I can't disagree with you there, unfortunately there are individuals out there that, by the nature of either their personalities or their actions, do still belong in prison, and too many of them currently are out on the streets.


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  • #811
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    end of the road wrote: »
    its 0 % effective, and life in prison stops a criminal from re-offending at a quarter of the cost to the tax payer

    no they don't

    i have, its nonsense, the death penalty is gone from ireland, the majority of the people in ireland don't want it, they voted to abolish it from the constitution

    Persons in prison commit crime all the time, offences include assault murder rape and drug dealing. Or are victims of such crime who happen to be in jail not to be considered?

    I recall the vote to abolish capital punishment was included in a bunch of stuff imposed by Europe and when one of the three demanded amendments failed to be passed they made us vote on it again (The Nice Referendum, icydk).


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