Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:14PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Well strikes won't help them. That's for sure. I'd like management to get tough and let them strike for as long as they like.

Fine. Then the public transport system will collapse. How are people going to get around if nobody is prepared to take a job as a bus driver because they can't make a living? Many people in Dublin cannot afford a car and depend on the service. The bus drivers in the current economic climate have little or no access to alternative employment. If they are young and single could emigrate and get a better job elsewhere but if they are married with children that's probably not an option.

Sand · 05-08-2013 06:16PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

Most of the population in the Dublin area live in the suburbs and due to the recession many many people can no longer afford to run a car.
For many of the bus routes in Dublin no private company would provide them which would basically leave thousands and thousands of families stranded.
In most cities around the world there is a subsidized semi-state public transport system.

I disagree with the bolded part. Dublin Bus abuse their monopoly and subsidized status to crush competition. The "no one else would do it" line is a myth they trot out, no more. They crush anyone else who tries to do it.

As for the rest - I don't see what any of it has to do with drivers trying to gouge us out of more money.

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 06:16PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

Fine. Then the public transport system will collapse. How are people going to get around if nobody is prepared to take a job as a bus driver because they can't make a living? Many people in Dublin cannot afford a car and depend on the service. The bus drivers in the current economic climate have little or no access to alternative employment. If they are young and single could emigrate and get a better job elsewhere but if they are married with children that's probably not an option.

It won't. SF & FF probably think that too.

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:16PM

knickerbocker wrote: »

The big problem is the inefficeincy of the current system ( in part how the working day/week is structured for drivers).
Time to shut the company down and start again with new T&C's.

You're living in fantasy land if you think there can be profitable bus routes through many areas of Dublin. They need to be subsidized. The alternative is whole tracts of Dublin city bereft of any means of getting from A to B.

St.Spodo · 05-08-2013 06:17PM

Their conditions of work which are already trying are being significantly worsened. I fully support their strike. We can't let frontline workers continue to be targeted.

Sandwlch · 05-08-2013 06:18PM

What is the average core pay of a driver for a private bus company?

And what are their overtime, sickpay, pension, etc bentfits ?

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 06:20PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

You're living in fantasy land if you think there can be profitable bus routes through many areas of Dublin. They need to be subsidized. The alternative is whole tracts of Dublin city bereft of any means of getting from A to B.

Fine then allow private companies tender against the CIE monoploly in competition for bundles of routes, and the current subsidies that go with them.
We will end up with a better run, more viable, and more efficent service.

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:20PM

Rightwing wrote: »

It won't. SF & FF probably think that too.

If bus drivers are paid peanuts and can't make a living they will not just go on strike. They will simply go on the dole. Bus routes will not be serviced and thousands of people who depend on DB will have no way of getting from A to B. Waving a magic wand and sticking to a blind right wing ideology won't cut it no more than sticking to a blind left wing ideology. Reality is reality is reality. I take it you are above a certain level of income and you don't have to use public transport? Good for you. I won't begrudge you. But the rest of society is not so fortunate.
FG is fighting for votes against SF & FF and the opinion polls indicate to me that FG is steadily losing ground.
If large areas of Dublin are left high and dry without public transport then FG can forget about re-election.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 06:21PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

Their conditions of work which are already trying are being significantly worsened. I fully support their strike. We can't let frontline workers continue to be targeted.

Frontline my arse!
These are overpaid bus drivers we are talking about, not firefighters!

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:22PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Fine then allow private companies tender against the CIE monoploly in competition for bundles of routes, and the current subsidies that go with them.
We will end up with a better run, more viable, and more efficent service.

I'm not opposed to other companies competing on the profitable routes and I am opposed to monopoly.
On many of the other routes Dublin Bus operates there is no profit to be made. If those routes no longer operated thousands of people would be bereft of transport of any kind.

Sandwlch · 05-08-2013 06:23PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

We can't let frontline workers continue to be targeted.

On the contrary, we must stop this business of frontline workers abusing their position as recognisable workers to us, to leverage retention of pay above those who are not frontline. Why do they think they are so superior to the 'back-line' workers ? They dont of course, but cynically exploit their high profile jobs.

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 06:23PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

If bus drivers are paid peanuts and can't make a living they will not just go on strike. They will simply go on the dole. Bus routes will not be serviced and thousands of people who depend on DB will have no way of getting from A to B. Waving a magic wand and sticking to a blind right wing ideology won't cut it no more than sticking to a blind left wing ideology. Reality is reality is reality. I take it you are above a certain level of income and you don't have to use public transport? Good for you. I won't begrudge you. But the rest of society is not so fortunate.

There's no point running a service if it's not sustainable. Either slash wages or slash numbers. This isn't being harsh,,,,it's being real.

St.Spodo · 05-08-2013 06:23PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Frontline my arse!
These are overpaid bus drivers we are talking about, not firefighters!

The average Dublin Bus driver earns 26,000. They're certainly not overpaid.

knickerbocker · 05-08-2013 06:24PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

You're living in fantasy land if you think there can be profitable bus routes through many areas of Dublin. They need to be subsidized. The alternative is whole tracts of Dublin city bereft of any means of getting from A to B.

Never said anything about the removal of subsidization!!!
Just suggested restructure, which would infact most likely serve the population more effectively and efficiently.

Potatoeman · 05-08-2013 06:27PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

Old people can't walk everywhere. Students with no cars don't have any alternative transport. A mother with no car can't walk everywhere or cycle everywhere to do her shopping. Children need to go to school and can't walk or cycle across the city. DB provides a service that would not be provided to many areas of the city by private companies.
Those people people have no alternative but to use the service.
Walking or cycling is not an option for many people when there is wet weather. You seem out of touch with the reality for many people in Dublin.
Dublin Bus drivers will not have a lot to take home if they don't fight their corner and try and get a better deal.
You can't expect them to work for crumbs do you and pay mortgages and feed, cloth and educate their families do you?

My point is that people have a choice and those that can will take alternatives. These are the people they should be trying to win over.
I'm not out of touch, I'm talking about those I work with who are exactly the people they need using their service. Those that pay full rates.
These people are well paid and not working for peanuts.

mikemac1 · 05-08-2013 06:28PM

Not the first time there were disputes over overtime.

In 2006 the European Working Time Directive was introduced. Nothing to do with Seamus Brennan or whoever was the minister at the time, this came straight from Brussels.

Rosters had to redone and drivers could not average over 48 hours per week. Which is probably good as you want drivers fresh and rested.

Most were not doing long hours

Fewer than 150 of the company's 2,500 bus drivers usually work more than 48 hours each week, but others fear that tighter rosters and additional staff would eat into potential overtime.

But it was a concern for many

The strike threat has been hanging over the semi-state company since NBRU bus drivers voted by 90pc for action to oppose the introduction of new working rosters six weeks ago.

Rival union Siptu has not yet balloted its members, but it is also resisting some elements of the company's new compliance proposals.

In the end new drivers were hired and that was the end of drivers pulling in lots and lots of overtime.

The basic working week is 39 hours, but up to nine hours extra driving work can be undertaken.

The company says it will have to recruit up to 150 additional drivers to operate the new rosters, which would cut down on lengthy overtime working.

Yeah it's the Indo
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/talks-efforts-to-avert-dublin-bus-strikes-likely-to-begin-at-the-labour-relations-commission-26402553.html

Point of my long boring post is disputes seem to flare up easily. Even when it's not DB managements fault and they are forced to cut down excessive overtime there are disputes as some drivers seemed to rely on that money. When overtime gets cut it's viewed as take home pay cut but nobody should ever rely on overtime. It's not dependable and if they ever hire new drivers a lot of it will be gone again

Foxtrol · 05-08-2013 06:31PM

Dublin Bus aren't even making a profit on 'profitable routes'.

Why is it public/semi state sector staff that doesn't seem to grasp the concept that there is no more money and going/threatening to go on strike isn't going to make more money magically appear?

Dave! · 05-08-2013 06:33PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

Old people can't walk everywhere. Students with no cars don't have any alternative transport. A mother with no car can't walk everywhere or cycle everywhere to do her shopping. Children need to go to school and can't walk or cycle across the city. DB provides a service that would not be provided to many areas of the city by private companies.
Those people people have no alternative but to use the service.
Walking or cycling is not an option for many people when there is wet weather. You seem out of touch with the reality for many people in Dublin.
Dublin Bus drivers will not have a lot to take home if they don't fight their corner and try and get a better deal.
You can't expect them to work for crumbs do you and pay mortgages and feed, cloth and educate their families do you?

Crumbs? 40k before overtime etc for a completely unskilled job? They should count their blessings that they got away with it for so fcuking long!

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:33PM

Rightwing wrote: »

There's no point running a service if it's not sustainable. Either slash wages or slash numbers. This isn't being harsh,,,,it's being real.

Maybe your water and your electricity and your broadband should be cut off? How about closing down Dublin port and lets see how long you survive without food? Let's do away with the Gardaí and the Army and the schools and colleges and universities too while we are at it?

knickerbocker · 05-08-2013 06:33PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Dublin Bus aren't even making a profit on 'profitable routes'.

Why is it public/semi state sector staff that doesn't seem to grasp the concept that there is no more money and going/threatening to go on strike isn't going to make more money magically appear?

It's a union driven agenda....... you wouldn't and don't see it in the private sector!

notharrypotter · 05-08-2013 06:33PM

The "no one else would do it" line is a myth they trot out,

A commercial operator would not provide a service remotely near what Dublin Bus provides.

Dublin Bus aren't even making a profit on 'profitable routes'.

There are no profitable routes just certain times of the day when many routes actually are profitable.
The city commuter rush is typically 0730 to 0900 and again 1630 1830.

There's no point running a service if it's not sustainable. Either slash wages or slash numbers. This isn't being harsh,,,,it's being real.

Outside of these times except on certain routes when school finishes there is a lot of expensive hardware running driving around costing money.

A transport network will have peaks and troughs in usage but the social element after the core periods is when many of the OAP's use the network.

Many trumpet the "private sector" as the solution to all our ills.

Your commercial operation as seen on many of the intercity routes is exactly that.

There is little or no interest in services to the other rural towns.

It is outside core periods an off the beaten track that society has to consider when it decides what kind of transport system it will have.

Potatoeman · 05-08-2013 06:34PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Dublin Bus aren't even making a profit on 'profitable routes'.

Why is it public/semi state sector staff that doesn't seem to grasp the concept that there is no more money and going/threatening to go on strike isn't going to make more money magically appear?

It's bankers man, wall street! Not the massive spending increases during the boom, no nothing to see there move along now please.

claypigeon777 · 05-08-2013 06:37PM

knickerbocker wrote: »

Never said anything about the removal of subsidization!!!
Just suggested restructure, which would infact most likely serve the population more effectively and efficiently.

This is about an ideologically right wing government cutting the pay of the lowest workers, cutting a public service and leaving ordinary people who depend on it high and dry. A party of the rich which is looking after the well heeled while the country does down the tubes.

KingOfFairview · 05-08-2013 06:39PM

It's really depressing how many people in Ireland will say "x profession has decent work conditions and pay, so we should support an attack on that instead of trying to get it ourselves". ****ing begrudgery. The bosses must have such a laugh at us, and I wouldn't blame them.

Does it ever occur to people that saying "if I did that I'd be fired" means that you are in a crap situation, rather than the bus drivers have some incredible privilege? Striking is a well-recognised right the world over and has been proven to work again and again. Stop being so moronic by acting as if it's some outrage because it inconveniences people.

Just because you can't stand up for your rights, don't try and stop others doing the same.

Rightwing · 05-08-2013 06:39PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

Maybe your water and your electricity and your broadband should be cut off? How about closing down Dublin port? Let's do away with the Gardaí and the Army and the schools and colleges and universities too while we are at it?

Instead of closing them down, why not just privatise them?

Aer Lingus v Ryanair is the classic example.

Grayson · 05-08-2013 06:46PM

Dave! wrote: »

Crumbs? 40k before overtime etc for a completely unskilled job? They should count their blessings that they got away with it for so fcuking long!

St.Spodo wrote: »

The average Dublin Bus driver earns 26,000. They're certainly not overpaid.

So, I've just hopped into this thread and haven't read the previous 9 pages (yeah, I know some people have it set to display more per page) but on this final page, there's two separate figures. Does anyone know what the starting wage is and say what the average driver is on?

I had a boss a few years ago who quit to become a dublin bus driver. I remember him talking about how great the pay was along with other benefits. He was talking about it as if it was an amazing job so I'm pretty certain the pay was more that 26k. But I don't know what the actual amount was.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 06:47PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

The average Dublin Bus driver earns 26,000. They're certainly not overpaid.

They earn a damm sight more than that, you have a source for that claim?

devnull · 05-08-2013 06:48PM

The Average pay in Dublin bus is just over €50,000, however that includes all staff from all roles, as published in the companies audited accounts.

Dublin Bus do not break that down into roles.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 05-08-2013 06:49PM

claypigeon777 wrote: »

I'm not opposed to other companies competing on the profitable routes and I am opposed to monopoly.
On many of the other routes Dublin Bus operates there is no profit to be made. If those routes no longer operated thousands of people would be bereft of transport of any kind.

I suggest you re-read my post, I said bundles of routes, that would be a mix of profitable and unprofitable routes and the subsidies that currently go with them.

previous user · 05-08-2013 06:49PM

If taxi drivers and Bus drivers were Sterilized racism would cease to exist in Dublin.

Do you support the Dublin Bus workers?

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