Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

losthorizon · 03-08-2013 09:10PM

Jumboman wrote: »

I've a question for people who support human rights for scumbags,

If a member of your family was brutally raped and murdered by a savage criminal would you really care about their human rights or would you want justice ?

Justice is getting a proper sentence. In Ireland we are not getting proper sentences. That should be fixed. The death penalty is wrong for a number of reasons most importantly you may have sentenced the wrong person. Imagine if the Birmingham six had been executed?

Lets not take us down to the level of the criminal - we are above that. Thats easy for me to say now but I would hope to have the same reaction if something happened in the future but with a life sentence (and I mean life) for anyone committing such a crime.

shootermacg · 03-08-2013 09:15PM

An eye for an eye? So how many Americans should die? Or should we just kill the guy programming the drone?[sarcasm btw]

Hitchens · 03-08-2013 09:25PM

The Irish PC Brigade Inc., worry a lot more about the 'human' rights of the poor misguided perp than they do about the family of the murdered victim!

03-08-2013 09:29PM

Hitchens wrote: »

The Irish PC Brigade Inc., worry a lot more about the 'human' rights of the poor misguided perp than they do about the family of the murdered victim!

No, though people are really fond of saying this whenever someone disagrees with them.

It's incredibly insulting to have it suggested that you don't care about victims or their families on the basis of objecting to State killings.

I can not want the death penalty, and simultaneously have all the compassion in the world for victims. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I wish someone would ban the phrase 'PC Brigade' and all the lazy assumptions and vapid stereotyping that goes with it. It's merely a lazy way of trying to discredit someone who disagrees with you without actually having to address anything they say.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 03-08-2013 09:34PM

Jumboman wrote: »

I've a question for people who support human rights for scumbags,

If a member of your family was brutally raped and murdered by a savage criminal would you really care about their human rights or would you want justice ?

How did I know that was going to be the question before you asked it.

Honestly though? No nearer to the death penalty than I am now because that's not the grounds on which I oppose it. In any case, if I remember this thread correctly, no one could actually define a human right and tell me what value it had if it could be rescinded.

Hitchens wrote: »

The Irish PC Brigade Inc., worry a lot more about the 'human' rights of the poor misguided perp than they do about the family of the murdered victim!

"Irish PC bridage"? You can define that too, because they don't exist.

Jumboman · 03-08-2013 09:54PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

no one could actually define a human right and tell me what value it had if it could be rescinded.

I believe in natural rights not human rights which mary robinson types are so fond of.

Robinson will lecture people on human rights yet she supports abortion on demand.

You didnt answer my question If a member of your family was brutally raped and murdered by a savage criminal would you really care about their human rights or would you want justice ?

People who commit horrific crimes dont deserve any rights.

Cedrus · 03-08-2013 10:06PM

Hitchens wrote: »

The Irish PC Brigade Inc., worry a lot more about the 'human' rights of the poor misguided perp than they do about the family of the murdered victim!

Where is your evidence for this statement?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 03-08-2013 10:08PM

Jumboman wrote: »

I believe in natural rights not human rights which mary robinson types are so fond of.

Robinson will lecture people on human rights yet she supports abortion on demand.

I would have thought breathing is about as natural as it got, put perhaps not. So what's a natual right and what's the difference?

You didnt answer my question If a member of your family was brutally raped and murdered by a savage criminal would you really care about their human rights or would you want justice ?

People who commit horrific crimes dont deserve any rights.

Actually, if you go back and read the full pose, you'll see that I did.

Jumboman · 03-08-2013 10:09PM

Cedrus wrote: »

Where is your evidence for this statement?

Just read the Irish Times:D

Cedrus · 03-08-2013 10:11PM

Candie wrote: »

I can not want the death penalty, and simultaneously have all the compassion in the world for victims. The two are not mutually exclusive.

+1

It's a bit of an oxymoron when people who demand the return of the death penalty claim to be more compassionate than those who oppose it.

Cedrus · 03-08-2013 10:13PM

Jumboman wrote: »

Just read the Irish Times:D

I do.

I repeat my question, Where is your evidence for this statement?

(I guess you read a short arm 'newspaper' ?)

end of the road · 03-08-2013 10:30PM

Jumboman wrote: »

I've a question for people who support human rights for scumbags,

If a member of your family was brutally raped and murdered by a savage criminal would you really care about their human rights

scumbags have human rights whether i like it or not, frankly i'm happy that they do as it sets standards in society to make sure we don't become ferrel, anyway you and others have all ready brought this up in this thread as a means to try get people to change their opinion, it doesn't work

Jumboman wrote: »

would you want justice ?

justice, yes, revenge by killing someone, no thanks

Hitchens · 03-08-2013 10:31PM

Jumboman wrote: »

I've a question for people who support human rights for scumbags,

If a member of your family was brutally raped and murdered by a savage criminal would you really care about their human rights or would you want justice ?

Murdered Rachel O'Reilly's dad demands death penalty for cold-blooded killers.

Heartbroken Jim Callally claims it is the only way to make psychos think twice.

Well, I reckon anyone in this poor man's position would say the same, and so would the majority if it went to a referendum!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 03-08-2013 10:34PM

Cedrus wrote: »

I do.

I repeat my question, Where is your evidence for this statement?

(I guess you read a short arm 'newspaper' ?)

In fairness, he didn't make the statement....

Hitchens wrote: »

Murdered Rachel O'Reilly's dad demands death penalty for cold-blooded killers.

Heartbroken Jim Callally claims it is the only way to make psychos think twice.

Well, I reckon anyone in this poor man's position would say the same, and so would the majority if it went to a referendum!

...he did. But he's had trouble defining things earlier in the thread, haven't you H.?

end of the road · 03-08-2013 10:39PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Heartbroken Jim Callally claims it is the only way to make psychos think twice.

has he any evidence for this statement or is he
1. delusianel
2. been told that by some pro death penalty group who seems to think it works as a deterrent even though the evidence says otherwise?

Hitchens wrote: »

Well, I reckon anyone in this poor man's position would say the same, and so would the majority if it went to a referendum!

considering a majority voted to abolish it, they won't be voting to bring it back, as were in the EU we can't anyway thankfully

Gatling · 03-08-2013 10:40PM

I'm pro death penalty ,
But we've a ridiculous legal and penal system that favours the criminal rather than the victim's,
We've next to no large prison's and the ones we have are a holiday camp with free drugs been dealed on a daily basis ,
We have judges who blatantly refuse to punish criminals and settle of sob stories and oh I smoked a joint and drank a beer before kicking somebody to death ,
Rapists who walk free
Multiple murders winning court cases which say a man can only serve one life sentence despite killing 3-4 people,
So before we ask to re enstate the death penalty fix all the above first

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 03-08-2013 10:45PM

Gatling wrote: »

I'm pro death penalty ,
But we've a ridiculous legal and penal system that favours the criminal rather than the victim's,
We've next to no large prison's and the ones we have are a holiday camp with free drugs been dealed on a daily basis ,
We have judges who blatantly refuse to punish criminals and settle of sob stories and oh I smoked a joint and drank a beer before kicking somebody to death ,
Rapists who walk free
Multiple murders winning court cases which say a man can only serve one life sentence despite killing 3-4 people,
So before we ask to re enstate the death penalty fix all the above first

I'd agree with most of that, bar the prison-holiday-camp bit. No one's ever managed to back that one up. Fix the rest of them, though, and you're right - and we probably won't be needing a death penalty.

Cedrus · 03-08-2013 10:46PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In fairness, he didn't make the statement....

True, I did make a mistake there in my address, but both of them strike me as people with a fondness for broad tar brushes.

namloc1980 · 04-08-2013 08:58AM

Hitchens wrote: »

Well, I reckon anyone in this poor man's position would say the same, and so would the majority if it went to a referendum![/I]

It did go to a referendum in 2001 and a large majority voted to remove all mention of the death penalty from the Constitution. In addition the death penalty is illegal under EU law and under our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights.

clairefontaine · 04-08-2013 09:10AM

Absolutely no way.

It should be abolished immediately wherever it currently exists.

wexandproud · 04-08-2013 03:01PM

Hoop66 wrote: »

Jaysus, the revenge fantasy one-handed-typists are out in force today.

"Bring back the death penalty!" "In fact, make it compulsory for everyone!"

If, as a society, we resort to killing people we are not fit to call ourselves civillised.

the vast majority of society is civalised but the ones who would deserve the death penalty would be the ones who do uncivalised things so they should be treated according to the rules they choose to live by

Amirani · 04-08-2013 03:19PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Well, I reckon anyone in this poor man's position would say the same, and so would the majority if it went to a referendum![/I]

Where are you pulling this rubbish out of? Are you not aware that the people of Ireland have voted on this a number of times already? (Both explicitly and implicitly).

Hitchens · 04-08-2013 03:22PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

It did go to a referendum in 2001 and a large majority voted to remove all mention of the death penalty from the Constitution. In addition the death penalty is illegal under EU law and under our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights.

Out of an electorate of almost 3 million, the turnout was a third of that. It was a 60 - 40 result, hardly a large majority. That was 12 long years ago and a lot has changed for the worst since then.

If there was a referendum on it now there would be a reversal on that result.

corktina · 04-08-2013 03:23PM

If there was a death penalty in the UK there would have been no reprieve for the victims of the various mis-carriages of justice during the troubles...

Amirani · 04-08-2013 03:24PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Out of an electorate of almost 3 million, the turnout was a third of that. It was a 60 - 40 result, hardly a large majority. That was 12 long years ago and a lot has changed for the worst since then.

Do you know anything about statistical sampling? 33% of the population is a fairly massive sample size.

60-40 is also a massive majority in a referendum.

Hitchens wrote: »

If there was a referendum on it now there would be a reversal on that result.

Bull****. Please back this up with something that hasn't come directly from your own head.

namloc1980 · 04-08-2013 03:29PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Out of an electorate of almost 3 million, the turnout was a third of that. It was a 60 - 40 result, hardly a large majority. That was 12 long years ago and a lot has changed for the worst since then.

If there was a referendum on it now there would be a reversal on that result.

I highly doubt that. Anyway for you to have your way and allow state sponsored killing you would have to get Ireland to leave the EU and get us to rescind our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights. How many people in Ireland do you think would be prepared to do that??? A rough guess will do.

Hitchens · 04-08-2013 03:29PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

Bull****. Please back this up with something that hasn't come directly from your own head.

Everyone I've spoken to about it (all ordinary law abiding folk, not the PC Brigade and tree-huggers that infest internet forums) would vote for the death penalty in a referendum!

Pang · 04-08-2013 03:31PM

I don't think it can ever be justified.

namloc1980 · 04-08-2013 03:33PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Everyone I've spoken to about it (all ordinary law abiding folk, not the PC Brigade and tree-huggers that infest internet forums) would vote for the death penalty in a referendum!

Where were all these people in 2001?

Amirani · 04-08-2013 03:35PM

Hitchens wrote: »

Everyone I've spoken to about it (all ordinary law abiding folk, not the PC Brigade and tree-huggers that infest internet forums) would vote for the death penalty in a referendum!

That's the definition of anecdotal. Any proper statistical evidence?

Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

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