Galway GAA discussion thread

Fireball07 wrote: »

Do Donnellan and Hynes deserve to be listed alongside Hayes and Canning? I really don't think either are top intercounty hurlers at all.

Bit harsh on Kevin Hynes who was actually a pretty good midfielder/half-forward (his best positions) at first. Not his fault that the Galway management have tried to batter his square head into a round hole in the full-back line. I fear they have ruined him for good now.

CyberDave wrote: »

That is grossly unfair to both players.

Hynes' reputation as a fine midfielder is ruined by the current management's insisting he play in the FB line. Some players just do not adapt to a switch like that. All it has served to do is ruin the man's confidence and it is unlikely he will recover.

I'm sick and tired of people running down Donnellan. Is this the Club thing coming into it? Just because he's from a perceived weaker club, he doesn't deserve his place. He always gives his all on the field and is one of the few half-forwards on the panel capable of winning his own ball. He stands out a mile at club level, so is well entitled to be on the Co panel.

I'm not saying they're bad players... or that they don't deserve their place on the panel, I was just saying I don't think you could say they were top hurlers or are players deserving of an All-Ireland based off their ability. I'm sure worse hurlers than them have won them, but personally, I don't think I'd take either as a starter in the current Limerick team, for example.

And it's got nothing to do with his club thing, I've never seen him play for his club, I was judging him solely on his performances at intercounty level over his career. Same with Hynes.

Mountainlad wrote: »

Think Fireball is right, neither are top class inter county hurlers. Not seeing they're not inter County standard but their not all star material. No slight on them, very high level to be even on an inter-county hurler. But while you might look back on Canning or David Burke if they never won an all-ireland as two players that can be considered amongst the unluckiest never to win an all-ireland, I don't think you could say the same about Donnellan and Hynes.

Canning (both of them), yes. David Burke shows signs of becoming the enigma of Galway GAA - all the ability in the world but so often can't seem to impose himself on a game, tends to play only 1 or 2 good games out of 5. Really has to push on next year or face being dropped (at least by competent management). Hynes bit unlucky in that he would have made his place quicker at midfield a few seasons back only for injury disruption; now that he's finally near full fitness he gets played out of position. Was never Donnellan's biggest fan. Like Joe Bergin for the footballers, he has a great attitude and is a great tryer, however he lacks some of the fundamental skills of the game and his use of the ball is often poor so that it prevents him from becoming a really indispensable county player. Was having his best season last year until injury derailed him.

I think everyone is missing the point I tried to make earlier - that the structures & leadership shown at the top management level (co board primarily) has devastingly failed Galway hurling for a quarter of a century. We have had more than enough talent to have won at least 5 (if not more) All Irelands in that period of time, but shambolic leadership has failed this talent. The arguments of who should & shouldn't be included in the list of talented players is for another day - my despair stems from the fact that if the Kilkenny panel/s of the last 10-15 years had somehow been transported to Galway, the likelihood is that none of them (including Shefflin/Walsh/DJ/Delaney/etc) would have won even one All Ireland. That's a terrible indictment of the people who are charged with ensuring our best players can compete on an equal playing field. What's worse is that there is no accountability, save for various blood thirsty witch hunts by vested interests/clubs who felt that their man should have got the managers job the last time.
Their was a root & branch review (the results of which were never published) after the Dublin & Waterford debacles of 2011, & I genuinely thought that all about to change - 2012 reinforced my view on this. However I now know that 2012 was just like 1993/2001/2005 - a mere flash in the pan, nothing to do with improved leadership & structures. The most harrowing thing from my perspective is that Joe Canning is unlikely to ever play in another AI final. That's a shocking statistic for someone who should not unreasonably expect to win at least 3-4 medals in his career.

24yearslater wrote: »

I think everyone is missing the point I tried to make earlier - that the structures & leadership shown at the top management level (co board primarily) has devastingly failed Galway hurling for a quarter of a century. We have had more than enough talent to have won at least 5 (if not more) All Irelands in that period of time, but shambolic leadership has failed this talent. The arguments of who should & shouldn't be included in the list of talented players is for another day - my despair stems from the fact that if the Kilkenny panel/s of the last 10-15 years had somehow been transported to Galway, the likelihood is that none of them (including Shefflin/Walsh/DJ/Delaney/etc) would have won even one All Ireland. That's a terrible indictment of the people who are charged with ensuring our best players can compete on an equal playing field. What's worse is that there is no accountability, save for various blood thirsty witch hunts by vested interests/clubs who felt that their man should have got the managers job the last time.
Their was a root & branch review (the results of which were never published) after the Dublin & Waterford debacles of 2011, & I genuinely thought that all about to change - 2012 reinforced my view on this. However I now know that 2012 was just like 1993/2001/2005 - a mere flash in the pan, nothing to do with improved leadership & structures. The most harrowing thing from my perspective is that Joe Canning is unlikely to ever play in another AI final. That's a shocking statistic for someone who should not unreasonably expect to win at least 3-4 medals in his career.

I don't know what goes on internally in Galway but it has always mystified me how they seem to be unable to follow one good year with another. I know some people will still argue you don't have the players but I couldn't agree with that at all. In 2005, Galway defeated Kilkenny in the U21 Final. That Kilkenny 15 included Richie Power, Michael Rice, John Tennyson, John Dalton, Michael Fennelly, Cha Fitzpatrick & Eoin Larkin. They have nearly 40 All Ireland medals between them now. Clearly the Galway players were a match for them eight years ago so what happens when they step up to senior. Galway have very few semi-final appearances since then, let alone finals.

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I do not think that is the case at all. What brings you to a figure of 5? Galway have plenty of talent but I cannot think of even 1 year in the last 20 where I felt at the start of the year that Galway had the best panel in the country. 2nd, 3rd, 4th best maybe but never the best. So I think its unsurprising that we have won so little.

Also, the Kilkenny team of the last decade with Shefflin & Walsh would win regardless of which county they grew up in.

I do wonder sometimes how much it affects Galway players development not to have a provincial championship at underage. I really think it would help if Galway entered Leinster at underage - I dont understand why they dont

5 is an estimate based on the quality of underage, the quality of hurling I see in club games, the quality of talent coming through the schools (Raphaels being a prime example) and the success at all levels apart from senior. There's been plenty of years when, in my opinion, we started with panels the equal of anyone ('96/'97/'99/'01/'02/'05/'07/'10/'12), whilst a few other years we were probably 2nd or 3rd best. Cork won an u21 in '98 & a minor in '01, and won 2 seniors backboned by them (missed out unluckily on at least one more). The point was made earlier about our u21 winnig side in '05 - similarily in '07 when we easily beat Dublin, most of that panel have now disappeared (Hynes Canning & Skehill only left I think). Yet the nucleus of that Dublin side trounced us in the Leinster final a few short weeks ago. What we are doing with our young talent defies logic. Can anyone say that Canning hasn't gone back since his tour de force performance v Cork in '08? He was only 19 then - he should be almost 20% better now, yet he look like a washed up beaten docket v Clare the last day. He looks like a man who's no longer enjoying his hurling.

It looks like I'm the only one here who believes we have seriously underachieved over the past 25 years. Others seem to think that our players haven't been good enough, but I don't accept this. I played against a number of players at club level, & whilst admittedly I didn't exactly set too much of a challenge to them (& possibly hastened their elevation to the co panel!), I konw good hurlers when I see them & play against them. Galway has had more than enough good hurlers to win more All Irelands than we have; the fact that we're even having this debate is heartbreaking.

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Wouldnt agree with those years at all. For example in 2010, Galways panel simply was not as good as Kilkenny's or Tipp's. In 1996 / 1997, Galway would not have had the same calibre of player as the Clare team in that era.

I think you have a point that players in Galway are perhaps not developed correctly. They actually talked a little about this on Championship Matters 2 weeks ago (more about football than hurling).

However, in my opinion, you are very much over-estimating how good the Galway panel have been over the last few years.

In '10 after an admittedly v poor showing v Kk in the Leinster final (when they weren't exactly pulling up trees either in fairness), we went toe to toe with Tipp in the quarters, & were very unlucky to lose. In '96 v Wex we dominated from start to finish, but hit a horrendous number of wides (22 i think) to eventually lose by 3. In '97 we had a super side - out hurled Kk for 45 mins but somehow threw away a 10 point lead in the closing stages (still trying to figure that one out). Any of those years we were good enough.

Maybe it's the mental side we're lacking in, but that should surely have been addressed by now. We certainly do have the hurlers. Maybe we discard players too quickly after 1 or 2 bad games instead of persisting with them - we possibly have too much talent coming through. Look at the way Niall Corcoran was ditched in '07 - I'd say he's got a very strong case for an allstar this year.

InchicoreDude wrote: »

None of that makes us a better team than the teams that beat us.

It makes us almost as good as the teams that beat us. Almost doesnt win an All-Ireland.

We'll have to agree to differ dude - you don't believe we have enough quality hurlers, whereas I do. Simple as that.

I believe our failings lie in the leadership.

Mountainlad wrote: »

The one that sprung to mind for me was 2007. Don't think Galway were even the 4th best side that year.

But your argument is based on panels at the start of the year so how do I argue against that when you could simply say it was the managers fualt? But then in 2010 supposedly they went toe to toe with Tipp[ which proves they were as good as the all-ireland champions where as the demolition against Kilkenny couldn't possibly be their true form.

I wouldn't argue that Galway have always had potential, but potential is just that.[/B][/B] Underage all-irelands were never a guarantee of Senior success and I think a lot of players lose the appetite when they do win underage all-irelands. Some think they have nothing more to do. That I think has been a problem for Galway and I would agree with Inchicore dude they would be far better off in the Leinster Minor and particularly under 21 championship where they only have to win two games to win an all-ireland.

But even that aside, I still don't believe Galway had all-ireland winning panels in what was it 9 years you mentioned?

I believe that potentially they had - it's a lack of proper structures/coaching/minding/whatever you want to call it in transition from underage level. I firmly believe that if other counties (Tipp/Cork/KK/Clare/etc) had only these players, they would not have gone 25 years without winning.

I accept that potential does not win all irelands, but a county board must develop potential. I also see merit in your point that sometimes underage success satisfies hunger, but why is this not the case in Kk, Tipp, Dublin, Tyrone (football) and others? Again this is down to a culture nutured at co board level. Until as such time as this is tackled we'll be back arguing this same point again year after year.

I stick to my belief thou that Galway hurling has had the talent to win All Irelands since '88. It's a failure a co board level that we haven't.

Stroke Politics wrote: »

Any link to this?

Its on the back page of todays Independent with the actual article in tomorrows edition.