20 years for manslaughter

Sunnyisland · 31-07-2013 06:16PM #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0731/465672-melanie-mccarthy-mcnamara/

A 24-year-old man has been sentenced to 20 years in prison for his role in the killing of a 16-year-old girl.
Melanie McCarthy-McNamara was shot dead as she sat in a car in Tallaght on 8 February, 2012.
Keith Hall, 24, of Kilmartin Drive in Tallaght had pleaded not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter...

The judge said the use of drink, drugs or a dysfunctional background provided little or no defence or mitigation and he refused to suspend any portion of the 20-year sentence.
The victim's family said afterwards they were delighted with the sentence.

Its about time the judiciary stood up and be heard and imo this sentence is shouting out to be heard and as a warning to others. well done Judge.

YFlyer · 31-07-2013 06:21PM

You wouldn't get that for murder.

homerjay2005 · 31-07-2013 06:21PM

hopefully this is the start of proper justice in this country where people get the sentences they deserve.

Gatling · 31-07-2013 06:23PM

Still don't get the actual charge he knowingly fired a loaded gun into a car with people sitting in it should have been charged with murder

endacl · 31-07-2013 06:26PM

The convicted prick admitted he went out with the definite intent to kill somebody. The fact that he hit the wrong target apparently made it manslaughter.

If somebody could explain this? Does it mean that if I leave the house now with the definite intent to kill the seventh person I meet, obviously not knowing who that could be, the charge would be manslaughter and not murder?

Happy to see the heavy sentence, but I don't get the 'manslaughter' bit. He intended to kill somebody, and he did kill somebody. It was murder.

EB_2013 · 31-07-2013 06:33PM

Good to see the heavy sentence handed down in this case as its usually the lenient ones we only hear about. I just wish there was more consistency in sentencing.

Gatling · 31-07-2013 06:35PM

Now the issue will be if he /his legal team launch an appeal for the heavy sentence ,

Peregrine · 31-07-2013 06:45PM

And 0 years suspended..

Good.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 31-07-2013 06:53PM

How would you have the cheek to say the sentence was too harsh for taking a life. :mad: if it is appealed, I hope he gets an even longer one

..Brian.. · 31-07-2013 07:03PM

endacl wrote: »

The convicted prick admitted he went out with the definite intent to kill somebody. The fact that he hit the wrong target apparently made it manslaughter.

If somebody could explain this? Does it mean that if I leave the house now with the definite intent to kill the seventh person I meet, obviously not knowing who that could be, the charge would be manslaughter and not murder?

Happy to see the heavy sentence, but I don't get the 'manslaughter' bit. He intended to kill somebody, and he did kill somebody. It was murder.

This is total guess work but if I intended to kill you, murder, shot at you and missed hitting and killing someone behind you, that would make it manslaughter. As in accidentally killing that person, their death was not my intent.

I'd gues the defence jumped on manslaughter to get a lighter sentence playing a technicality and the judge thre his full weight at it as a result. Fair play to him.

StinkyMunkey · 31-07-2013 07:05PM

I can't get my head around the fact it was defined as manslaughter 0.o he intentionally went out to commit cold blooded murder. Wtf did he think would happen firing a shotgun into a car full of people, just spray and pray you murder the right person??? The scumbag obviously knew where his gun was pointed and fired regardless of who died.

That all being said, the sentence was a good outcome.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 31-07-2013 07:07PM

realies wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0731/465672-melanie-mccarthy-mcnamara/

A 24-year-old man has been sentenced to 20 years in prison for his role in the killing of a 16-year-old girl.
Melanie McCarthy-McNamara was shot dead as she sat in a car in Tallaght on 8 February, 2012.
Keith Hall, 24, of Kilmartin Drive in Tallaght had pleaded not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter...

The judge said the use of drink, drugs or a dysfunctional background provided little or no defence or mitigation and he refused to suspend any portion of the 20-year sentence.
The victim's family said afterwards they were delighted with the sentence.

Its about time the judiciary stood up and be heard and imo this sentence is shouting out to be heard and as a warning to others. well done Judge.

The Court of Criminal Appeal will reduce it, guarenteed.

Kirby · 31-07-2013 07:09PM

..Brian.. wrote: »

This is total guess work but if I intended to kill you, murder, shot at you and missed hitting and killing someone behind you, that would make it manslaughter. As in accidentally killing that person, their death was not my intent.

That's completely ridiculous and mental gymnastics of the highest order.

Manslaughter is accidentally killing somebody. Like, If I threw a rock at a window and it hit you in the head. The intention was to break a window, not kill somebody.

This man intended to kill....the fact that he missed the target doesn't change the fact that he murdered somebody. His intent was to murder somebody. Manslaughter is a ridiculous charge and he only pleaded to it to avoid a larger sentence of murder.

Badly Drunk Boy · 31-07-2013 07:10PM

Then couldn't he also be charged with the attempted murder of the person he missed?

StinkyMunkey · 31-07-2013 07:11PM

..Brian.. wrote: »

This is total guess work but if I intended to kill you, murder, shot at you and missed hitting and killing someone behind you, that would make it manslaughter. As in accidentally killing that person, their death was not my intent.

I'd gues the defence jumped on manslaughter to get a lighter sentence playing a technicality and the judge thre his full weight at it as a result. Fair play to him.

I'm sorry but he knew well the likely outcome of firing the weapon and where it was pointed. Manslaughter is when someone dies through actions where there was no intent to kill. If you trying to tell me he pointed the gun and knowingly fired at a person and didn't intend to kill them - I'm at a loss.

..Brian.. · 31-07-2013 07:19PM

Allow me to reiterate the first part of my post in bold.....this is total guesswork!

I think he should have been charged with murder, I don't know why he was charged with manslaughter, I was simply throwing out a guess as to why.

Sunnyisland · 31-07-2013 07:30PM

As far as I recall the news clip his role was to throw a rock at the window of the house to lure the occupants out of it and he helped dispose of the gun when the Santa Fe ran out of petrol at City West ?

homerjay2005 · 31-07-2013 08:37PM

Gatling wrote: »

Still don't get the actual charge he knowingly fired a loaded gun into a car with people sitting in it should have been charged with murder

murder is all about intent. he didnt intend to kill this girl, it was somebody else.

by right, he should also have been charged with attempted murder of the others in the car, though i think the conviction is fair enough in terms of sentance.

StinkyMunkey · 31-07-2013 08:44PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

murder is all about intent. he didnt intend to kill this girl, it was somebody else.

by right, he should also have been charged with attempted murder of the others in the car, though i think the conviction is fair enough in terms of sentance.

I disagree, if I shoot you in the head, and then turn and say I didn't mean to kill you - I'm talking out my ass.

T-Maxx · 31-07-2013 08:55PM

The death penalty should be brought back in, especially for scumbags like this.

spank_inferno · 31-07-2013 09:11PM

T-Maxx wrote: »

The death penalty should be brought back in.

No....no it shouldn't.

sdanseo · 31-07-2013 09:18PM

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

The Court of Criminal Appeal will reduce it, guarenteed.

And therein lies the problem.

I was toying with a few ways of phrasing this but the above kind of nails it. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentence in that it's entirely appropriate, but I disagree with it in the sense that it's inconsistent with other sentences for the same crime. Carney is famous for this.

There needs to be sentences that are consistently this high for this type of crime. And damn right that being a junkie is no defence, if anything it should be a crime against the public in itself (drugged and disorderly, just as drunk and disorderly is).

Gatling · 31-07-2013 09:39PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

murder is all about intent. he didnt intend to kill this girl, it was somebody else.

by right, he should also have been charged with attempted murder of the others in the car, though i think the conviction is fair enough in terms of sentance.

Oh that's right he only threw stone ,

I can see the appeal headline judge reduces sentence for man who threw a stone during a shooting,

Death sentence should be brought back ,

Royal Irish · 31-07-2013 09:43PM

In my opinion the judge handed out a 20 year sentence not because its about time harsher, and lets be honest here, more realistic sentences be handed out, but because the court room was packed with the victims family members who were all travellers. Could you imagine the uproar in the courtroom if the judge handed out the usual lenient sentence for manslaughter we see so much in this country.

Sunnyisland · 31-07-2013 10:01PM

Royal Irish wrote: »

In my opinion the judge handed out a 20 year sentence not because its about time harsher, and lets be honest here, more realistic sentences be handed out, but because the court room was packed with the victims family members who were all travellers. Could you imagine the uproar in the courtroom if the judge handed out the usual lenient sentence for manslaughter we see so much in this country.

Don't think it anything to do with who was in the court, There have many people sentenced to long term imprisonments with lots of supporters in the public gallery ,most notably republican prisoners. imo.

wicklowstevo · 31-07-2013 10:07PM

a good judgment but the appeal courts will slash it,

would love to see proper sentencing coming into this country especially for reckless feckless **** like tis.

they tried to bring in something intelligent with the section fifty gangland laws and the judges used descression to reduce sentences down because of mitigation factors which are almost always bull ****.

might be a good idead to tighten up on the judges and stick in a few new ones ,

in fairness i ve read stuff from judges who feel they cant be harsh because the know the appeals court will slash the sentences.

hows about some victim rights instead of criminals rights eh

wicklowstevo · 31-07-2013 10:11PM

sdeire wrote: »

And therein lies the problem.

I was toying with a few ways of phrasing this but the above kind of nails it. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentence in that it's entirely appropriate, but I disagree with it in the sense that it's inconsistent with other sentences for the same crime. Carney is famous for this.

There needs to be sentences that are consistently this high for this type of crime. And damn right that being a junkie is no defence, if anything it should be a crime against the public in itself (drugged and disorderly, just as drunk and disorderly is).

side bar judge `
drunk and disorderly is a british or american thing

in ireland its intoxicated in a public place , through drink or drugs or a combination of both.

jlm29 · 01-08-2013 01:18AM

I'll change the direction of this thread slightly. Did anyone see the news this evening? Her family looked like they were at a hen party, not in a courtroom. They were only missing the fluffy ears. I could not get over the carry on of them. So I'd say yes- the judge would have been heckled to a height if the sentence had been any less.
Though the reasons don't really matter- an appropriate sentence was handed down.

garv123 · 01-08-2013 01:29AM

realies wrote: »

As far as I recall the news clip his role was to throw a rock at the window of the house to lure the occupants out of it and he helped dispose of the gun when the Santa Fe ran out of petrol at City West ?

And fire 2 shots in the window of the car with a shotgun?

DainBramage · 01-08-2013 02:11AM

jlm29 wrote: »

I'll change the direction of this thread slightly. Did anyone see the news this evening? Her family looked like they were at a hen party, not in a courtroom. They were only missing the fluffy ears. I could not get over the carry on of them. So I'd say yes- the judge would have been heckled to a height if the sentence had been any less.
Though the reasons don't really matter- an appropriate sentence was handed down.

Yeah noticed this on the news.about 20 mainly female supporters with matching pink and white t shirts etc. They have every right to be happy with this just verdict but ****ing hell, a little subtlety people.

ardle1 · 01-08-2013 02:39AM

Royal Irish wrote: »

In my opinion the judge handed out a 20 year sentence not because its about time harsher, and lets be honest here, more realistic sentences be handed out, but because the court room was packed with the victims family members who were all travellers. Could you imagine the uproar in the courtroom if the judge handed out the usual lenient sentence for manslaughter we see so much in this country.

Cant imagine any known reason that those people would effect the outcome of his sentence!mayb it's about time judges started to notice the plea bargaining and shinanagans that goes on between solicitors and barristers,it's bad enough when it comes to a simple car crash or shop lifting.:mad:

20 years for manslaughter

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